Surrending Fingerprints

[EasternPromises]

So, in regards to the NCIC database and the previous poster about fingerprints:

Does one have the right to refuse to surrender one's fingerprints upon an arrest until a court order?

It would seem that if, regardless of disposition of case they're going to remain in the NCIC database permanently, then refusal would be acceptable until conviction.

Otherwise it would be possible to add more people to the database simply by arresting them and then dropping the charges. (not that I think most cops have any time or inclination to do this, I just see it as a possibility)

[txinvestigator1]

You can refuse, but they will get your prints anyway. Even if they have to hog tie you.

[phantasm]

In NYPD you can refuse prints, but you'll be remanded until you voluntarily provide them.

[EasternPromises]

TX - I'm certain that officers have the physical ability to take them, but do they have the legal authority to do so? The moral authority?

Phantasm - Hypothetically speaking then, say someone refused. I assume that means they'd be held until their trial date. If at that time they were exonerated, would they go back in the hoosegow until they "volunteered."

Yeah, I know, who says hoosegow anymore

[pac201]

you don't need to be printed to get into jail, just to get out of jail...

[greg72982]

In PA (at least my counties), the fingerprint order is given with the preliminary hearing notice so basically well before conviction...

[retdetsgt]

It's part of the booking process. You can't be released until you're fully booked. And yes, we take fingerprints by force if necessary.

[txinvestigator1]

TX - I'm certain that officers have the physical ability to take them, but do they have the legal authority to do so? The moral authority?

Really? What do you think? Do you think when the forceably take them they are violating the law?

Good Grief.


Hey, if the Moon blew up would it cause the Earth to spiral out of control? :rolleyes:

[EasternPromises]

Hey, if the Moon blew up would it cause the Earth to spiral out of control?

I don't have the energy to do the math right now, but I'm pretty sure, aside from the obvious tidal effects, you'd see a very slight decrease in the length of a day as the earth's rotation speed up, but probably not TOO significant.

Sorry, sometimes I answer rhetorical questions. It's a personal failing of mine. :D

Anyway, so I guess the continuation of this question, is that there is a push to collect DNA and create a database similar, or perhaps connected to NCIC.

Most states are reserving this for violent offenders upon conviction, but some want to make it anyone who's arrested.

Just curious how officers feel about this one.

[retdetsgt]

I
Most states are reserving this for violent offenders upon conviction, but some want to make it anyone who's arrested.

Just curious how officers feel about this one.

I'm okay with anyway they can get it at all.

[EasternPromises]

But should it be collected upon arrest, or upon conviction?

[Citicop]

You can choose to believe any of the following:

1.) Police actually lack this legal authority, and you are smarter than every defense lawyer, judge, defendant, civil rights group, and Constitutional Scholar in the country, because none of them ever thought of it.

2.) Police actually have this legal authority after all.

I know which one everyone else here thinks, EP...

I'm interested in YOUR opinion.

-Citicop.

[retdetsgt]

But should it be collected upon arrest, or upon conviction?

Arrest. There are avenues to get them expunged if you are found not guilty. Courts have held up our right to positively identify arrested subjects for well over a century. The only way to do that is fingerprints.

DNA hasn't really been tested in court yet to my knowledge, but I would bet our right to gather it will be upheld.

Besides, all that are decisions to be made by the judicial branch, not the executive. I would suggest going to a legal forum if you want to argue this matter.

[Group9]

Where do these guys come from? :eek:

[Curt581]

Where do these guys come from? :eek:

Colleges.

Usually parent financed.