How "Corporate" is Law Enforcement?

[PUGS1688]

Hey all,

I come to you all with sort of a weird question. I know there are rules and laws that LE officers need to follow, that's a given, but how corporate is LE? If at all? I ask because I am currently in the Air Force, and I have noticed in my 2 years that I have been in, that there are many stupid little rules that we have to abide by and if broken can lead to paper work.

For example, if you are driving a government truck on the flight line and do not shut off the vehicle and pull the e-brake when you get out, you are wrong and subject to lose your privilege to drive on the line. Another example would be not using a T.O. (Job Guide, or reference) while completing any kind of job while working on an aircraft. Even if you have done the job 1000 times, if you don't use the TO you can receive paper work and even have to speak to your commander.

So as weird as this question might sound to some of you, are there a lot of stupid little rules that you have to follow as a LE officer that just drives you insane because you know it's not always necessary? I'm not talking about major things like gun safety and how to handle a suspect, just general, everyday things?

You all are great and I appreciate what you do. As always, I appreciate the answers.

[Switchback]

Well, LE is probably more militaristic than the Air Force. :D Well, in some cases... probably a great deal so when you look to the academies.

Anyways, as I am sure you can imagine, the reason that most rules exist is because someone did something bad, resulting in the creation of it. Not only in LE, but in life, this is the case. It's no big deal.

FWIW, there are a ton of things like that. However, the regularity can be a comfort. Even if you do not completely agree, you know what those around you are expected to do. It takes the guess-work out of things. Also, remember to look around... see the weakest links, for whom these rules are made. Not only will those people be safe, but so will you.


...because you KNOW some idiot had his truck roll into a multimillion dollar jet!

[Samuel]

How "Corporate" is Law Enforcement? - IME, alarmingly and unfortunately, Dilbert comic strips often hit the mark...

[retdetsgt]

Anyways, as I am sure you can imagine, the reason that most rules exist is because someone did something bad, resulting in the creation of it. Not only in LE, but in life, this is the case. It's no big deal.

+1

In some ways, it's not as bad. When I was in the Army, if you destroyed some equipment through careless behavior, you could be made to pay for it. I've never seen that in LE, at least at the municipal level. As Switch said, most of the petty crap is because of moronic behavior by someone else. We are still our worst own enemy in a lot of areas.

It ain't like Dirty Harry where he could kill 16 people and then drive away to let someone else clean it up.

As far as the leadership, Samuel is right on. People who are lousy cops often get promoted trying to find their level of competence. They rarely do.

[mcsap]

We have a book of rules and regulations that is pretty thick.

When I was in the USAF , I recaall the book(s) of AF regs and then there were the SAC supplements. SAC had a LOT of supplemental regs !!!!!!

For the non-AF crowd. The AF has their big books of regs. Then, each sub-branch has their own "extra " rules.

MAC Military Airlift Command freight haulers
SAC Strategic Air Command think B-52's and missiles
PACAF Pacific Air Forces
USAFE US AF in Europe
ATC Air Training Command basic training


I ssupect some of these like SAC are no more ??

[Legoate]

I'd say there are at least as many department rules for police officers as there are T.O.'s and regs for people in the Air Force. I've done both.

One bad thing about breaking your department rules- not only can you be fired fairly easily, but you can also be sued civilly because you no longer fall under the protection of the department as you are now "operating outside the general orders".

If you don't like following orders in the Air Force, you will like it even less in the LEO field.

The AF is for pansies... and I can say that since I earned my AF retirement pin.

[PUGS1688]

If you don't like following orders in the Air Force, you will like it even less in the LEO field.

I don't mind following orders and following it up with a Yes, Sir. Especially when it comes from someone who's been doing their job a lot longer than me. I don't think that will change if I get the chance to wear the badge.

The AF is for pansies... and I can say that since I earned my AF retirement pin.

I've been in for 2 years and have found little to no satisfaction in what I do as an aircraft mechanic. I should have done something else.

[Group9]

How "Corporate" is Law Enforcement? - IME, alarmingly and unfortunately, Dilbert comic strips often hit the mark...

I call it "The Dilbert Quotient", which I calculate by how many of the Dilbert cartoons for that week, directly apply to us. Five or six is normal, but it often hits seven, the max. :D

Laughing at it is the best way to handle it, I have found.

[Creeker]

As to your question, I'll have to check the CALEA standards manuals and get back with you... to see if I can even answer... :rolleyes:

http://www.calea.org/Online/CALEAPro...enfprogram.htm

Following my former agencies Standards, they wiped out the Reserve Program and most of the rest of the Reserve Programs in my state are going to have to follow suit under Accreditation.

[manahmanah]

It is very much corporate. I have seen more cops get fired or in trouble for being in violation of a minor, even stupid, department policy, as opposed to not following a specific aspect of the penal code. Unless you violate a suspect's civil rights, the worst that will happen is a case will get dismissed. If you are out of department policy, you will get paper, days on the beach, or fired.

[retdetsgt]

We have a book of rules and regulations that is pretty thick.

So do we. It's mostly CYA stuff though. When I started, the manual of rules and procedures was about 3/4" thick and about the size of regular book.

Now there are two volumes containing 8"X11" paper, each about 3" thick. The job hasn't changed any, it just covers the city. It's virtually impossible to go a week w/o violating something. The only time it would cause problems for you is if the city had to distance themselves from you for liability reasons. Or at least they think it will, I've yet to see them escape liability in court though because of it.

[Group9]

Our manual is on line. And,unlike laws, or regulations, when it is changed, there is no notation as to when it was changed. You just get told you are not doing something according to policy, then you look up the section, and find, yes, they did change it. You don't know if they changed it the day before or the year before.

Then, they inspect us on whether or not we have complied with policies we were never informed of, or if we did things we were never told to do. :eek:

In many ways, Dilbert helped me by making me realize that if someone made a successful cartoon about stuff like that, it must be somewhat universal. :D

I also watch "Office Space" about once a year, especially before we are inspected (with the Inspectors no doubt wondering why we keep referring to them as "The Bobs".

[BP348]

...because you KNOW some idiot had his truck roll into a multimillion dollar jet!

Thus the put the e-brake on when parking on the flight line.

I think every agency has it's own rules & regs. Some good some bad it's all what you make of it.

If you're not happy in yourcurrent AFSC then put in for a transfer. You can always try for AFOSI. I wish I would have put in my paperwork for OSI when I was still in.

[PUGS1688]

Thus the put the e-brake on when parking on the flight line.

I think every agency has it's own rules & regs. Some good some bad it's all what you make of it.

If you're not happy in your current AFSC then put in for a transfer. You can always try for AFOSI. I wish I would have put in my paperwork for OSI when I was still in.

If I had to stay in I would want to go OSI. It looks like one of the best AFSC's in the Air Force. It's hard for me to transfer, I already talked to my supervisor about getting into something new, maybe a debrief or CTK position on the flightline and he laughed at me and didn't even listen to the rest of my plea. It's 2 more years, I can muscle through it.

But thanks for all your answers. I guess no matter what you do there are always going to be those stupid little rules that everyone would roll there eyes to. But what can you do, lol...

Any good examples?

[Creeker]

I got jammed up for putting my own copy of Microsoft Streets on my issued Desktop computer so I could find my way to Crime Scene's, places in North Carolina where I had to take selected Evidence and map out related Crime Scene's... when the Agency had none. The claim was that I was using excess bandwidth and violating policy. I was written up by the IT Nerds.

I also got jammed up for coming in to work on my day off after the Sgt. told me in front of co-workers that I could earn a Comp Day by analysing backed up Marijuana cases. Our Lt. saw me at work on our day off, questioned my Sgt., who claimed he was unaware I was doing anything, even after he called me while I was doing it and asked how many more I had to do... then claimed the following Monday I was unauthorised to be working.

I was penalized 3 times for having my first on-duty fender bender in 22 years by backing into a parked Detective vehicle. It cost me my 22 year Merit raise by having a disciplinary action, failing to take care of my issued equipment that year, cost me 4 points towards my 6 point County Drivers License and was forced to attend Drivers Training for 3 days. The damage was less than $1000. Oh yeah, I forgot I was read the riot act for failing to show up at my Peer Accident Review Board, when I got the memo 2 days later than the Board met... because my Sgt. picked up the county mail and took it home with him for his Annual Leave.

Ask me if I miss that A.H. Sgt... go on, I dare you.... :mad:

;)