Interdepartment/interstate career moves as an officer

[Roger Dat]

Your tone did reflect a little bit of disdain for a patrolman. What you need to realize is your qualifications to attain a promotion in one agency doesnt autmatically qualify you for the same position in a different agency. I come from a decent size agency of about 90. If Im a swat officer here do you think I would be able to transfer to a large job like LAPD and jump right into their SWAT program? Absolutely not, their training resources and competitiveness for positions is tougher than in a small department at times.

I dont believe ROS meant any disrespect he was merely stating that there should be no sesne of entitlement when you choose to move to a new agency.

[Taz_bb2]

Nobody else has picked up on the non-existent hatred and disrespect towards the profession and police officers that you somehow believe I'm displaying.

I did. I just didn't comment on it until now.

I took your comment about low-level officers as an insult. There is no such distinction. Either you are an officer who has dedicated his life to the job, or you are on the outside. Various ranks, length of service, or skill sets do NOT the officer make. Tell me how long a person has to be at an agency to be considered a REAL cop and not a low level officer. Low-level is traditionally consider to be a derogatory term, often used to describe fodder for a higher or ulterior purpose. So again, tell me what the magic cutoff is.

You sir, are on the outside looking in. I don't dare criticize that which I know nothing about. Why? It just good form. Yet you, in your wisdom and omnipotence, have figured out the woes of every law enforcement agency across the nation - because they won't transfer rank between agencies! :eek: Wow. I wonder why the 10 million officers that have come before us have never figured that one out! :rolleyes: Yet someone who has never walked an inch, much less a mile, in our shoes suddenly has the wisdom to fix it all and make everyone happy.

Your posts in this thread came off as condescending to anyone that happily considers themselves to be low-level officers. We put our lives, however insignificant to your profound grasp on the intricacies of running a LE agency, on the line everyday with pride in everything we do. We dedicate ourselves to learning more everyday to better our service to our community and our agency. And sometimes, this little thing called life steps in and takes us to a new location, where we gladly go for the opportunity to serve a new community amongst our brethren in blue.

I see where ROS is coming from. I've BDTD, earned my badge, so any suggestions on how to improve it come from a position of knowledge and experience. You're not there yet.

[StartingOut]

Point taken, and no disdain was intended - I am looking forward to being a patrolman, and may well end up spending my entire life in such a position.

And yes, I would expect that if you transferred into a different police department and you had SWAT experience, you'd be given preferential hiring for SWAT positions over every other officer who had no SWAT experience - you would be the best qualified candidate for the job. The union thing explains why it doesn't happen though. And that's going to take a lot of getting used to, coming from the outside world where promotions are typically given to the guy or girl who is best qualified, rather than to the guy or girl who has been there the longest. But the union structure, I guess, gives the police officer far more job security.

[StartingOut]

Against my better judgment, I'm going to dignify your ridiculous claims with a response.

I did. I just didn't comment on it until now.

I took your comment about low-level officers as an insult. There is no such distinction. Either you are an officer who has dedicated his life to the job, or you are on the outside. Various ranks, length of service, or skill sets do NOT the officer make. Tell me how long a person has to be at an agency to be considered a REAL cop and not a low level officer. Low-level is traditionally consider to be a derogatory term, often used to describe fodder for a higher or ulterior purpose. So again, tell me what the magic cutoff is.

Interpretation - "I wasn't bothered enough to comment until ROS told me what I should think, and I'm not smart enough to form my own opinion". Or "I wasn't man enough to air my opinion until I had backup".

(Annoying when people make assumptions about what you write that clearly aren't correct, isnt' it? Perhaps you can get an idea where I'm coming from with my issues with your assumptions about me.)

Once again, I never mentioned anything about low-level cops not being real cops. Perhaps the choice of "low-level" was a bad term to pick, but common sense dictates that it's pretty clear what I was insinuating. If I was a brand new poster who clearly had no interest in joining the police, then yes, it could be taken as a direct insult. But coming from someone with a demonstrated interest in the profession and a demonstrated interest in becoming one of the people I supposedly insulted, it's kinda clear that it wasn't intended as a derogatory term. A little common sense goes a long way. I obviously meant "inexperienced" or "new".

You sir, are on the outside looking in. I don't dare criticize that which I know nothing about. Why? It just good form.

I agree. I didn't criticize. I asked questions about it in an attempt to understand, and quit once an explanation was given. "Good form" has nothing to do with it. I question all policies that seem stupid or counterproductive - it's beneficial. Keeping one's mouth shut doesn't help anything.

Yet you, in your wisdom and omnipotence, have figured out the woes of every law enforcement agency across the nation - because they won't transfer rank between agencies! :eek: Wow. I wonder why the 10 million officers that have come before us have never figured that one out! :rolleyes: Yet someone who has never walked an inch, much less a mile, in our shoes suddenly has the wisdom to fix it all and make everyone happy.

Yup, that's right. Sadly, until someone actually explained that it's a union/civil service issue, it really didn't make much sense at all that experienced officers weren't given any credit whatsoever when transferring - surely you can see that absent the union issue, that's simply a ridiculous policy. And you'll notice that since someone actually offered a decent, non-judgmental answer, I'm cool with the reasoning.

Nobody needs to walk an inch in your shoes to question the logic behind giving no credit to experienced lateral transfers when the union issue wasn't pointed out. It's the equivalent of a high school student moving to a different state and having to start with elementary school again.

Your posts in this thread came off as condescending to anyone that happily considers themselves to be low-level officers. We put our lives, however insignificant to your profound grasp on the intricacies of running a LE agency, on the line everyday with pride in everything we do. We dedicate ourselves to learning more everyday to better our service to our community and our agency. And sometimes, this little thing called life steps in and takes us to a new location, where we gladly go for the opportunity to serve a new community amongst our brethren in blue.

That's a touch melodramatic, isn't it, particularly when you know damn well that no insult was intended and you're looking for an excuse to argue on the internet. I never claimed to have any grasp of the intricacies of running an agency - that was a claim ROS incorrectly attributed to my post. Nor do I think the life of any officer is insignificant. Nor do I think that experienced patrolmen are low-level. Again, a little common sense goes a long way.

I see where ROS is coming from. I've BDTD, earned my badge, so any suggestions on how to improve it come from a position of knowledge and experience. You're not there yet.

I see where ROS and you are coming from - you're using silly little strawman arguments to make it seem like you're both encyclopedias of police knowledge, and that I was an idiot/******* for asking a simple question. Sorry guys, but that doesn't really impress me, and it leaves me with very little respect for you when you need to resort to twisting my words and deliberately drawing out illogical meanings from what I write in order to bolster your comments.

It's clear that there's a handful of posters here who are looking for a fight and to beat down the uninitiated, rather than looking to educate. It happens on a daily basis, not just to me, but to many other folk coming here with questions about the profession. Again, it doesn't impress me whatsoever - it just makes me think you're one of those people who'll end up acting like a jackass on the job just so you can "win".

Seriously - do you guys not understand for one second that deliberately going out of your way to trash someone who wants to join the police is absolutely destructive? We're not talking about some drug using kid with a criminal past here who needs to be given a dose of reality. We're talking about an educated, excited, enthusiastic, law-abiding, dedicated applicant who, after reading some of the responses in this thread, will leave this site questioning whether or not he truly wants to join up and sacrifice everything to work with a bunch of guys who act like this.

We're on the same team here. Sure, I'm not the quarterback. But we're on the same team.

[Big Sexy]

Seriously, ROS, what has gotten under your skin so bad in this thread?

BIG will be your huckleberry.

Your complete and under insistence to do nothing but post a question about any and everything that pops into your head or that you see on t.v. or perhaps saw in a movie once. :mad:

Brown shoes with a black suit, acceptable?

Should the shoes be wingtips?

How may of you FEDS wear wingtips?

What color are the wingtips?

If you don't wear wingtips, is your car a Crown Vic?

If you car isn't a Crown Vic, does this mean you're forbidden to wear wingtips?

What's a wingtip? I see neither wing nor tip?

Do all FEDS wear dark suits, dark ties with sunglasses?

What brand are the sunglasses?

What brand are the suits?

Do you buy your suits and sunglasses in the same store?

If you shop at the same store, does this mean you live on the same street?

Is the street called Federal Lane?

When leaving your home on Federal lane and driving your Crown Vic, while wearing your dark suit, dark tie, sunglasses and wingtips, are you allowed to listen to the radio?

If so, what station?

Does the typical FED listen to Country Rap or Rock and Roll?

Do you lip sing with the song or actually sing with the song?

Then you get indignant when someone makes an issue of something you said in a thread. Hell, even that was phucking question!!!:mad:

Seriously, ROS, what has gotten under your skin so bad in this thread?

The thread is called "Ask-A-Cop", not "Empty-Your-Mind-To-A-Cop"!! You want to contribute to OUR forum? Then do something but ask every asinine question that enter that mind of yours.

Lastly, here's a video, which BIG believes is more than appropriate considering it's dedicated to you.

[StartingOut]

Oh, for god's sake...

The thread is called "Ask-A-Cop", not "Empty-Your-Mind-To-A-Cop"!! You want to contribute to OUR forum? Then do something but ask every asinine question that enter that mind of yours.

You'll notice that in this thread (yup, the one in which I bothered to offer an opinion and tried to open an intelligent discussion to which I contributed, rather than just asking a question and disappearing), my head was bitten off by a handful of posters for daring to question a seemingly-counterproductive policy.

Which is it? Be seen and not heard, or try to discuss police-related matters in a mature manner? Because evidently, I can't please one set of regulars without pissing the other set off.

Don't worry - I'll "ban" myself from this forum. It's becoming all too common that people seeking quality, helpful information end up being ridiculed, misinterpreted, insulted, belittled, and driven away by a small minority of higly-vocal, antisocial, arrogant and judgmental "officers". Makes me wonder how effective the psych evaluations are, because there's a few people getting through whose behavior on this board, were it in the real world, would make them look like absolute a$$holes.

I'll still pursue becoming an officer. I just don't want to end up being like some of the more vocal posters here, so it's best if I find an alternate source of information, advice and support from officers who are a touch more personable and in line with what I'd like to have as a role model.

To those who gave wonderful advice, which is pretty much everyone except ROS in his recent "crazy powermonger" phase, thanks.

Yes, you too, BIG. And you too, non-crazy ROS. ;)

[Big Sexy]

1) What are your recommendations?

2) Should I go into the local PD for a couple of years first?

3) Any chance these would have been fed cars, or do feds have the Crown Vics too?

4) What portion of those 120,000 applicants are actually serious FBI material that exceeds the minimum hiring standards?

5) I get that it's a ridiculously competitive hiring process, but what would be some real life estimate of how many qualified applicants actually end up being hired, once the unqualified applicants (e.g. no degree, no military or LE experience etc.) are cut out of the equation?

6) And what are the applicants vs. hires stats for some other federal LE agencies?

7) If I was hired and posted to an office that wasn't local, but was within 2 hours driving, would I be required to relocate closer?

8) In short, are there any requirements from any 1811 agencies that state SAs must live within x miles of the office?

9) Do that many people think that such agencies will bend the rules for them and look past the fact that they have no degree or experience, particularly in light of the fact that they can't even follow basic instructions?

10) So would I be correct in thinking that 1811 jobs are worth driving 2 hours each way for?

11) Initially, at least, and until I could get transferred to somewhere closer or move nearer the office?

12) One related question - with so many of you guys living so far away from the office, I'm guessing that there's not too many after-hours emergency calls?

13) Can I get some opinions from officers about their level of job satisfaction?

14) Sure, there's some crappy paperwork, some jackasses, and plenty of red tape to cut through, but all in all, when they're out on the street, life is pretty good. Is this generally the case?

15) In short, do many cops ***** about how crappy being a cop is, or do they come home most days in a good mood and positive about their career?

16) How do background investigators find out about this stuff?

17) Was the incident reported to your department and made known to your colleagues?

18) But I will ask whether it's dishonest to apply knowing that the vast majority of possible locations will not be suitable?

19) Following up on that question, at what point in the hiring process for the major agencies (FBI, DEA, USSS, USMS, ATF, etc.) do you find out where you will be posted?

20) I think this puts me out of the running, since it's not worth wasting my time and someone else's place at Quantico if I am taking a huge gamble as to where I'll be posted (unless it's common for agents-in-training to leave Quantico if they aren't posted where they want?)

21) But what about the USSS, DEA, ICE, ATF etc?

22) And what about some of the other agencies?

23) Bottom line for me - I need to stay in DC or Virginia for the foreseeable future. Is this realistic?

24) Why else would an inhaler be prescribed?

25) In other words, what reason does the doctor have to prescribe an inhaler and open himself up to a malpractice lawsuit?

26) After these cut-off dates, are new postings listed, or is hiring finished until all those who applied under the current posting have been processed?

27) And if the latter, how long does it typically take for agencies to exhaust their current supplies of applicants and list a new job posting?

28) What hours are SAs required to work?

29) Are they expected to show up a 7:00 a.m. and leave at 7:00 p.m., even when there's nothing urgent happening?

30) Or are there days when they can wander in a 9:00 a.m. and leave at 4:30 p.m.?

31) And what about taking work home?

32) For instance, if an agent has a bunch of paperwork to complete, can this be taken home to complete after-hours?

33) This isn't a question to ask "how slack can I be"?

34) Do 1811s get issued with body armor?

35) And do they wear it all the time?

36) If not, would it be considered "wussy" to always wear a low profile vest that the agent purchased with his or her own money?

37) Judging from the responses so far, I take it the average 1811 job is pretty damn safe unless performing certain predetermined tasks?

38) My question is what kind of credit issues are they looking for?

39) Are investigators going to see that I've always paid on time and ask why a couple of balances are high, or are they going to briefly glance at my FICO score and use that to form their opinion?

40) Is reaching a pace where 1.5 miles can be covered in under 12:30 a reasonable goal, or is that level of fitness just impossible for many normal people?

41) Oh, and I figure I've got about 6 months to get to this level of fitness. Realistic?

42) Since it's almost 2009, could I get some opinions on what 2009 might look like in terms of federal 1811 hiring?

43) Since the economy is so bad, are current 1811s staying in their jobs, meaning less openings for new hires?

44) Perhaps the huge financial mess means that the FBI will want to pick up lots more agents with numerical/computer/law skills to investigate the countless crimes in the mortgage and banking industries?

45) Any ideas or predictions?

46) How are things looking in your agency?

47) Any rumors?

48) Is there an upcoming hiring freeze?

49) How did the investigator find out what gym you went to and who you used to date?

50) Was this info you volunteered, or did this come from asking your listed contacts about anyone else he should interview?

51) Just wondering if a BI will include interviews with family members (parents, siblings etc.), or are these interviews avoided because your own family is likely to say good things about you regardless?

52) How easy or hard is it for a police officer to transfer from one city to another, or from one state to another?

53) Are lateral moves for experienced officers difficult, and do they often involve taking a huge step backwards in terms of career progression?

54) Sure, each department has a duty to look after its own employees, but at the expense of effective policing and acquiring much-needed experience that would greatly enhance its policing abilities?

55) No disrespect to officers who have actual experience, but what am I missing?

56) Does having experience as a more senior supervisor make it easier to transfer from department to department and stay in a supervisory position, or is it still a complete pain in the butt to move departments at any career stage?

57) Seriously, ROS, what has gotten under your skin so bad in this thread?

58) Seriously - do you guys not understand for one second that deliberately going out of your way to trash someone who wants to join the police is absolutely destructive?

59) Which is it?

60) Be seen and not heard, or try to discuss police-related matters in a mature manner?

Don't worry - I'll "ban" myself from this forum.

Finally, it only took 5 weeks, 39 days 45 posts and 60 questions and not 1 useful or meaningful post. By the by, you posted the above 27 minutes ago. Be a man of your word and go ahead and ban yourself already. :rolleyes:

[Taz_bb2]

I agree. I didn't criticize. I asked questions about it in an attempt to understand, and quit once an explanation was given. "Good form" has nothing to do with it. I question all policies that seem stupid or counterproductive - it's beneficial. Keeping one's mouth shut doesn't help anything.

Asking questions to understand and criticizing agencies practices are two different things.

I question all policies that seem stupid or counterproductive - it's beneficial. Keeping one's mouth shut doesn't help anything.

Yeah, keep that attitude as you enter LE. ;) I can see an FTO washout in the early phases of the job.

As to the rest of your dogmatic rantings...mine are backed up by your own words. Yours are backed up by your attempt to backpedal on what you said and how you said it. You appear to be intelligent - its hard to make $100k+ without having some smarts- so your choice of words are either intelligent ramblings or Freudian slips. I can phrase things eloquently to get my point across because 1) I KNOW what I want to say, and 2) because my opinions and statements of fact are from knowledge of the way it really is - not some uninformed haphazard assumptions based on ambition.

Common sense goes a LONG way. That's why sometimes you will see us "attack" a poster - they have exhibited a clear lack of it. We tolerate it on duty because we are expected to - there is no expectation of that here.

[Big Sexy]

Don't worry - I'll "ban" myself from this forum.

[Roger Dat]

I prefer another one bites the dust :D

[Big Sexy]

I prefer another one bites the dust :D

You ask and you shall receive. BIG aims to please. :D

[Roger Dat]

BIG is the man! Good looking out brother.

[Switchback]

...I then made the comment that to me, that sounded like an odd policy - there seems to be no obvious reason for one department not valuing a lateral transfer's experience...

The experience is valued. However, there is a VERY good reason why you start over. Did you consider that laws very from state to state, even county to county and city to city. State Post Certifications often help smooth within state moves, but it still does not always ensure acceptance and bypassing an academy when lateraling. Going to another state can be akin to starting over in terms of learning the new codes and laws. Even the 10 codes and communications can all be different. You won't know the streets either. With all that said, you still think a guy should be able to just walk into a management slot? It doesn't make sense.

Now, as already mentioned, being a federal criminal investigator (1811) makes for easier transitions across the country. I am an 1811 and have made a couple moves, all within the same agency. While I did not lose seniority and agency policy remained constant, there is still a SIGNIFICANT learning curve when moving to different districts/circuits. The practices for MANY of our procedures varies greatly. Some are dictated by the federal court district, others by federal court circuits. Then the management in each place does things a little differently. So, having my experience in this, I feel confident in saying that I could not imagine moving, changing agencies and still trying to be in a leadership role.

[Creeker]

Sounds to me like he was looking for a National Police Force.

Pretty damn ignorant of reality, if you ask me.

For the record, my former Agency hired several ranking Bosses (Lt. & above) Federal & Armed Forces cronies of the Sheriff, who prior to taking office, swore he would always promote from within.

Sheriff's can do that... :rolleyes:

[Kimble]

To those who gave wonderful advice, which is pretty much everyone except ROS in his recent "crazy powermonger" phase, thanks.

:rolleyes: Gee, the opinion of someone who lacks the common sense to know whether or not investigators wear their ballistic vests while sitting in their office desks... that's an opinion that affects my self image.

You responded to this post with a venomous, rather ridiculous claim that I clearly have a less-than-favorable view of patrol officers, that I was slapping officers in the face, and that I had a poor attitude towards law enforcement in general. Again, wow. Either your reading comprehension skills are awful, you're deliberately misreading, or you're simply looking for a negative reaction from me by putting words into my mouth.

You're correct. I clearly hate cops. That's exactly why I'm so interested in finding out more about the profession and almost at the point of applying and taking a six figure pay cut to join. What a great, insightful, and accurate conclusion. :rolleyes:

There was nothing "venomous" about my reply, I just called you on the comment you made about patrol officers. All you had to do was clarify what you meant and it would have been a closed issue, but instead you piss and moan to me and anyone else who read your comment as demeaning towards patrol cops. Most of your questions here have been about 1811 positions, and the one thing that makes 1811s look bad in the eyes of other LEOs is those who come in with no prior LE experience and a feeling of entitlement or that they're better than local and state LEOs. If that's not you, so be it, but your comment was taken that way by others. If you're so thin-skinned that you can't clarify what you meant without lashing out at others, this ain't the career field for you.