Atheists on the Force

[Creeker]

I'm an atheist and I would give anyone of my LEO brothers the shirt of my back. If that is considered worshiping myself, then I am guilty as charged.

It was an opinion.

I didn't say it makes anyone less charitable than others who do believe in some kind of God.

Chill, man.;)

[BJJVad]

It was an opinion.

I didn't say it makes anyone less charitable than others who do believe in some kind of God.

Chill, man.;)

Wasn't upset, just making the clarification that my LEO brothers/sisters are on the same platform that I am standing on.

[Catsmeat]

Rest assured that they are also illegal in the government service world. We may not discriminate on the basis of religion among other things.

You will find that the demographics and makeup of any agency will reflect the community it serves. Therefore, departments in the bible-belt will most likely have more religious officers than LAPD or NYPD for instance.

retdetsgt offers good advice. I think as long as you keep your belief system to yourself, you shouldn't have a problem.

That's perfectly fine with me, as long as the rule really applies with equal force to believers. My personal experience is that when a vast majority of people in a given area hold X belief in common, they tend to be very comfortable talking openly about X at work, regardless of what the law says, and regardless of what common sense says is a fit subject for professional company. That works out to the “misfit” being the only one who’s obligated to keep his mouth shut, and that’s a situation I won’t tolerate. I live in Utah Valley, which is very much like certain parts of the Bible belt in that it's essentially a monoculture. I do sometimes voice my atheism at work, but only because I'm constantly forced to listen to Mormons who talk about their religion, or who presume I must be Mormon myself just because I'm clean-cut and polite and live in this area. The ones who aren't ignorant of the rule seem to treat it with a sort of wink-wink, nudge-nudge disdain--Yes, we know we shouldn’t really be discussing religion at work, but we're all Mormon here so there's no need to stand on formality, is there? Like that. Yes, I could simply remind my erring colleagues that religion is no subject for the workplace, but that might serve to alienate me even more than voicing my atheism. (Incidentally, I won’t be applying for the police force in Utah Valley, for mostly unrelated reasons.)

Rest assured I’ve never been the one to broach such volatile subjects at work, and never will be.

Cops by and large at least have a reputation for being strong religious believers, and for being politically conservative. Neither description fits me. If it’s really true that in spite of this commonality, nobody ever really talks about it—not even a “Man, how ‘bout those silly tree-hugging liberals?”—then I won’t have a problem. As I said, during my time with the Mormons, I’ve never been the one to start a religious (or political) discussion at work, and I don’t plan to start now. I just refuse to be the only one who professionally keeps his mouth shut while everyone else openly flouts the rule. It’s awfully easy for “shut up about politics and religion, everyone” to become “shut up about politics and religion—if you think differently.”

On another note, to quote Cat Doc: I tend to believe the old war adage about there being "no atheists in foxholes."

I also believe that when you are wrestling a suspect who pulls out a knife or gun, or you are laying on the street bleeding out as you hear the Calvary sirens coming your way, your current views are likely to be challenged.

Even if it were true that there are no atheists in foxholes (it isn’t), that would be no evidence for the actual existence of God. It would only be evidence for the idea that people in extreme danger need to believe in God (very sound—I think most people in danger do). If I were to turn to God just because I thought I might be about to die, after I’ve scorned the belief all this time, all that would show is that I didn’t have the courage of my convictions. I hope I have better character than that. The death, pain, and dangerous existence of others have not convinced me to believe in God. There’s no logical reason why my own death, pain, and dangerous existence should be any more persuasive. I’ve fully embraced the idea that this life is what it is, and is all that there is. I don’t expect to abandon that philosophy on the day I lie bleeding to death in the street, if that day ever comes. Amor fati.

Thank you all for the very interesting discussion so far.

[retdetsgt]

Cops by and large at least have a reputation for being strong religious believers, and for being politically conservative.

I wouldn't say the former is all that true, but the latter certainly is. Particularly because you will get to witness all the failed liberal social experiments.

There will be a lot more discussions of political policies than religion because we have to deal with the effect of them. We've had a few politically liberal cops on my dept. and they're tolerated, but to be honest, not always trusted that much.

If you have strong liberal political views, you might want to think of another profession. Whether you voice them much or not, you probably won't fit in very well.

[Taz_bb2]

If your pride and intolerance brings your actions to the light of your superiors, I can guarantee you will be looking for a new line of work.

Having staunch PERSONAL convictions is admirable, but in this profession, there is a time and place to discuss it. In uniform, never. Your attitude screams "LOOK AT ME, I'M DIFFERENT AND WILL LET EVERYONE KNOW IT BECAUSE I CAN!!!"

It shows a lack of maturity, compassion, acceptance (even though you are hell bent on having everyone else accept your convictions), and PROFESSIONAL judgment.

The latter is what will get you shown the door.

[smcc360]

That works out to the “misfit” being the only one who’s obligated to keep his mouth shut, and that’s a situation I won’t tolerate.

It's rookies who are obliged to keep their mouths shut. The new guy at the PD can learn to tolerate that, or to tolerate his locker migrating to the parking lot on a regular basis.

Welcome to RP. We have a peachy little subforum for new guys to introduce themselves, and to spend a golden moment as the center of attention.

[manahmanah]

That's perfectly fine with me, as long as the rule really applies with equal force to believers. My personal experience is that when a vast majority of people in a given area hold X belief in common, they tend to be very comfortable talking openly about X at work, regardless of what the law says, and regardless of what common sense says is a fit subject for professional company. That works out to the “misfit” being the only one who’s obligated to keep his mouth shut, and that’s a situation I won’t tolerate. I live in Utah Valley, which is very much like certain parts of the Bible belt in that it's essentially a monoculture. I do sometimes voice my atheism at work, but only because I'm constantly forced to listen to Mormons who talk about their religion, or who presume I must be Mormon myself just because I'm clean-cut and polite and live in this area. The ones who aren't ignorant of the rule seem to treat it with a sort of wink-wink, nudge-nudge disdain--Yes, we know we shouldn’t really be discussing religion at work, but we're all Mormon here so there's no need to stand on formality, is there? Like that. Yes, I could simply remind my erring colleagues that religion is no subject for the workplace, but that might serve to alienate me even more than voicing my atheism. (Incidentally, I won’t be applying for the police force in Utah Valley, for mostly unrelated reasons.)

Rest assured I’ve never been the one to broach such volatile subjects at work, and never will be.

Cops by and large at least have a reputation for being strong religious believers, and for being politically conservative. Neither description fits me. If it’s really true that in spite of this commonality, nobody ever really talks about it—not even a “Man, how ‘bout those silly tree-hugging liberals?”—then I won’t have a problem. As I said, during my time with the Mormons, I’ve never been the one to start a religious (or political) discussion at work, and I don’t plan to start now. I just refuse to be the only one who professionally keeps his mouth shut while everyone else openly flouts the rule. It’s awfully easy for “shut up about politics and religion, everyone” to become “shut up about politics and religion—if you think differently.”

On another note, to quote Cat Doc: I tend to believe the old war adage about there being "no atheists in foxholes."

I also believe that when you are wrestling a suspect who pulls out a knife or gun, or you are laying on the street bleeding out as you hear the Calvary sirens coming your way, your current views are likely to be challenged.

Even if it were true that there are no atheists in foxholes (it isn’t), that would be no evidence for the actual existence of God. It would only be evidence for the idea that people in extreme danger need to believe in God (very sound—I think most people in danger do). If I were to turn to God just because I thought I might be about to die, after I’ve scorned the belief all this time, all that would show is that I didn’t have the courage of my convictions. I hope I have better character than that. The death, pain, and dangerous existence of others have not convinced me to believe in God. There’s no logical reason why my own death, pain, and dangerous existence should be any more persuasive. I’ve fully embraced the idea that this life is what it is, and is all that there is. I don’t expect to abandon that philosophy on the day I lie bleeding to death in the street, if that day ever comes. Amor fati.

Thank you all for the very interesting discussion so far.

Unless somebody specifically asks you, do not mention anything about your religion, or lack of, because to be honest, nobody gives a $hit.

[Wolfman]

I 100% agree with RDS and John. By the wording of "proud atheist" it sounds like you like to throw things out there or make contraversial statements that might stir a discussion, if that's what you mean then I would strongly advise against it. If you are just saying you do not care what others think about your religious views, you are who you are, then that is fine and shouldn't be a problem.

No one cares what your religion, sexual-orientation, etc. is as long as it does not effect your job or you don't push it on everyone. Nothing is worse than riding with someone who tries to push their viewpoint on someone else constantly. If you and the person you may work with would like to discuss your different viewpoints - that is up to you - but I would wait and find out.

All of that being said, Police Officers are still human and as humans if someone doesn't like something about you or disagrees with it, etc. they may associate with you less, not hang around, hell even talk about you:eek:, BUT I haven't seen it yet that they won't back you up when you need it - because if you are a LEO, you're still a Brother/Sister in Blue.

[Citicop]

I am aware of no law that prohibits the discussion of religion at work. It may be poor form, but it's not illegal.

If you are both liberal and an atheist, then you are likely going to be the "odd man out," belief wise. The other cops don't care what you believe in (or not) but if having everyone else on the other side of many issues from you is something that matters to YOU, then you may be uncomfortable sometimes in your chosen career.

Particularly with political leanings as they relate to the job- If you, for instance, subscribe to a liberal "society-driven" view of the causes of crime, as opposed to a conservative "personal responsibility" view, and you are on the scene of a horrific child abuse, saying "It really isn't his fault. He was abused as a child, too!" will likely get you attention from your coworkers you would prefer not to have.

When that happens (everyone in a conversation is in agreement with idea "a," but you hold idea "b") you have two choices: you can let it go, or you can position yourself opposite all your coworkers in the debate.

Neither way is "wrong" depending on how you do it. The problem that some STRONG atheists (and liberals, come to think of it) have is that they tend to come across as condescending and arrogant. They don't really try to hide the fact that (in their opinion) the belief in a higher power is silly. If you have that attitude, you will be quickly unpopular.

If you can respect the fact that other people hold a belief that you do not, and understand that they are no more WRONG in their belief than you are in your lack of it, you'll be fine.

Citicop.

[Creeker]

When I was a kid growing up, I had this friend who was a CLEMSON freak... CLEMSON is one of our state run Universities that you may not have heard of in the last decade, but they were a Football powerhouse in the late 70's-early 80's.

Everything the kid had was Orange. Everything the kid said was CLEMSON. Everything the kid ate was CLEMSON.

After 2 years or so of it, I positively despised CLEMSON.

CLEMSON has never done anything to me... I just hated the only thing I ever heard out of this kids mouth was CLEMSON.

I STILL don't like CLEMSON. I know it is irrational, but its how I grew up.

Don't be that kid.

[Catsmeat]

If your pride and intolerance brings your actions to the light of your superiors, I can guarantee you will be looking for a new line of work.

Having staunch PERSONAL convictions is admirable, but in this profession, there is a time and place to discuss it. In uniform, never. Your attitude screams "LOOK AT ME, I'M DIFFERENT AND WILL LET EVERYONE KNOW IT BECAUSE I CAN!!!"

It shows a lack of maturity, compassion, acceptance (even though you are hell bent on having everyone else accept your convictions), and PROFESSIONAL judgment.

The latter is what will get you shown the door.

With respect, I think you could have read my post a little more carefully. I specifically stated that I never initiate political or religious discussion at work. If it seems like I'm seeking attention by starting this topic here on the message board, that's really not the case--I'm just trying to get an idea of what life might be like for a cop whose worldview is quite far removed from (what seems to be) the worldview of many cops. I'm not sure exactly what I wrote that made you think I'm hell-bent on having everyone else accept my convictions. Re-reading my post, I think I was pretty clear that all I ask for is the same right to a voice as everyone else.

[txinvestigator1]

With respect, I think you could have read my post a little more carefully. I specifically stated that I never initiate political or religious discussion at work. If it seems like I'm seeking attention by starting this topic here on the message board, that's really not the case--I'm just trying to get an idea of what life might be like for a cop whose worldview is quite far removed from (what seems to be) the worldview of many cops. I'm not sure exactly what I wrote that made you think I'm hell-bent on having everyone else accept my convictions. Re-reading my post, I think I was pretty clear that all I ask for is the same right to a voice as everyone else.

The theme I keep seeing is "my rights". No one gives a rats *** that you are whatever, except now you have become irritating. I see that in your future. A lot.

[Catsmeat]

I wouldn't say the former is all that true, but the latter certainly is. Particularly because you will get to witness all the failed liberal social experiments.

There will be a lot more discussions of political policies than religion because we have to deal with the effect of them. We've had a few politically liberal cops on my dept. and they're tolerated, but to be honest, not always trusted that much.

If you have strong liberal political views, you might want to think of another profession. Whether you voice them much or not, you probably won't fit in very well.

Thanks for your candor. That pretty much confirms what I suspected.

[Catsmeat]

When I was a kid growing up, I had this friend who was a CLEMSON freak... CLEMSON is one of our state run Universities that you may not have heard of in the last decade, but they were a Football powerhouse in the late 70's-early 80's.

Everything the kid had was Orange. Everything the kid said was CLEMSON. Everything the kid ate was CLEMSON.

After 2 years or so of it, I positively despised CLEMSON.

CLEMSON has never done anything to me... I just hated the only thing I ever heard out of this kids mouth was CLEMSON.

I STILL don't like CLEMSON. I know it is irrational, but its how I grew up.

Don't be that kid.

LOL. No. I've talked about atheism a lot here in this thread because, well, that's the subject of this thread. My interests are pretty diverse--I'm comfortable discussing anything with anyone. If you happened to meet me on the street and struck up a casual conversation with me, you'd have no reason to consider me the Clemsonite of atheism, or of anything else. :D

[7mmMag]

I think the other posters have answered your question really well. What do you think? Have you had your question answered? Have you had a solid glimpes of what officers around the country think about other officers religious views. The bottom line is this. Its a personal issue, not one to be touted or thrown at others while on the job. Its pretty simple I think. As for me, like most of the others, I could care less about what religion you are, what color, what your favorite sports team is, you sexual preference, whatever.

All I want is a good officer who does their job well and will cover my butt when things go bad. Be that guy, and you will be ok.