Questions on Self-Defense

[fictionwriter]

Hi, folks. I'm new to the boards and hoping to get a little info for a story I'm writing. Any guidance from any police officers/detectives here would be greatly appreciated. Most of my questions this morning have to do with killing in self-defense. A difficult topic, I know, but I'm hoping to present it as realistically as possible which is why I'm here.

Thanks in advance for your help!

QUESTIONS

1. If the police respond to a 911 call and discover a woman, almost beaten to death, huddled over her dead boyfriend's body and she says it was self-defense, well, what happens? Is it the kind of thing that goes to court or does it get determined by an investigation? Is it even remotely possible that she can walk away from that crime scene that same day?

2. Assuming there's an investigation, how long does it typically take?

3. Does the woman have to go to jail while the investigation occurs?

4. If it is determined that it was indeed an act of self-defense, can the woman return to the apartment afterwards?

5. If she can return to the apartment, what will it look like? I mean, of course the body is gone. But is she responsible for cleaning up the blood?

Thank you again for any light you can shed in this area. I sincerely want to present this story in the truest form without sensationalizing or exaggerating any of it. Your thoughts are welcome and appreciated.

[Johninaustin]

The last time I worked on a movie my rate was 86$ an hour, but that involved driving. Writers would be about $50, 2 hour minimum. :rolleyes:

[fictionwriter]

You did consulting work? Very cool. Unfortunately, I don't think I can afford to pay for your time. I'm self publishing this story and I've got to watch every penny. That's why I'm here trolling for free info.

Thanks anyway, though.

[retdetsgt]

Hi, folks. I'm new to the boards and hoping to get a little info for a story I'm writing. Any guidance from any police officers/detectives here would be greatly appreciated. Most of my questions this morning have to do with killing in self-defense. A difficult topic, I know, but I'm hoping to present it as realistically as possible which is why I'm here.

Thanks in advance for your help!

QUESTIONS

1. If the police respond to a 911 call and discover a woman, almost beaten to death, huddled over her dead boyfriend's body and she says it was self-defense, well, what happens? Is it the kind of thing that goes to court or does it get determined by an investigation? Is it even remotely possible that she can walk away from that crime scene that same day?

2. Assuming there's an investigation, how long does it typically take?

3. Does the woman have to go to jail while the investigation occurs?

4. If it is determined that it was indeed an act of self-defense, can the woman return to the apartment afterwards?

5. If she can return to the apartment, what will it look like? I mean, of course the body is gone. But is she responsible for cleaning up the blood?

Thank you again for any light you can shed in this area. I sincerely want to present this story in the truest form without sensationalizing or exaggerating any of it. Your thoughts are welcome and appreciated.

1. Investigation would ensue. There should be some physical evidence at the scene.

2. Every case is different. It's hard to say, it would be a couple of hours or days, even weeks. Detectives would look for prior incidents, talk to people who knew the couple, etc. Nothing is cut and dried.

3. No

4. Yes, if she lives there.

5. Yes, she's responsible, again if she lives there. Police don't do janitorial work.

If you don't know that much about police work, you might wanna look at another subject to write about......

[fictionwriter]

Ret, thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. It's great when you can get info from a reliable source. I hope my "clean up" question didn't offend you. I wasn't implying that cops do janitorial work. I was wondering if things like blood might be considered a biohazard and have to be removed before civilians could be allowed back in. Probably should have been clearer with question. Sorry about that.

1. Investigation would ensue. There should be some physical evidence at the scene.

Would the investigation be handled by a detective or a forensic specialist?

2. Every case is different. It's hard to say, it would be a couple of hours or days, even weeks. Detectives would look for prior incidents, talk to people who knew the couple, etc. Nothing is cut and dried.

So, if I'm interpreting your answers correctly, the woman could conceivably be sitting in her empty apartment that night?

If you don't know that much about police work, you might wanna look at another subject to write about......

That's why I'm here. To learn more about police work. I don't plan on writing this overnight. I'm in my research phase now, pulling from several sources (including this site). Frankly, I don't know too many people, who aren't involved with law enforcement, that would have enough knowledge to write a story like this without first doing the kind of research I'm doing.

There are some great works of fiction out there, written by authors who had no real understanding of police work before they began their story. How'd they do it? They talked to experienced guys like you. ;)

Thanks again, ret. Hope I can look to you for more info in the future!

[Johninaustin]

Damn, another lost opportunity. :D


You need to take into consideration that a homicide is going to take weeks to investigate, the crime scene in the apartment will more than likely be off limits for the same time frame and that dozens of people will be involved. Multiple visits to the crime scene by the investigative team is a strong possibility

Granted, there will be a lead detective (or pair of them), but it's a team effort. Forensic techs, photographers, Medical Examiners, patrol officers, EMS, all are going to be working in that apartment. The apartment may be PERMANENTLY off limits until the case is concluded. You are going to need the approval of all of them before the scene is released.

Keep in mind, the crime scene is under control of the police, the BODY is under control of the Medical Examiner.

In a really messy scene the health dept will ban occupancy until it's cleaned up and that responsibility rests with the owner or their insurance company. It's not cheap by any means.

Bottom line, in a murky "Self Defense" scenario such as you describe, the character will more than likely NEVER get to go back into the apt.

She's not "walking away" either. First, she'll go to the ER for her injuries. Then she'll be booked and if she consents, interviewed.

Look at a minimum of 24 hours since the inital 911 call if she's let loose at all.

[TX-LEO]

You did consulting work? Very cool. Unfortunately, I don't think I can afford to pay for your time. I'm self publishing this story and I've got to watch every penny. That's why I'm here trolling for free info.

Thanks anyway, though.

We arent here to further your 'story telling'.

[fictionwriter]

Damn, another lost opportunity. :D

Ha! But think of it as an opportunity to get yourself into the story! Maybe I'll name a character "John Austin".

Seriously, thanks for your help. Between you and ret, I think I've got enough info on this particular topic. The next step will be to take what I've learned here into conversations with a couple of Boston and NY area cops who've agreed to sit down with me and talk a little more about this topic. Your answers have given me the vocab I need to make my time with them meaningful. Thanks again! This certainly won't be the last question I post. Hope to hear from you again in the future, man.

We arent here to further your 'story telling'.

I apologize, TX. I assumed anyone who was too busy or didn't feel like helping me wouldn't bother posting.

[retdetsgt]

I hope my "clean up" question didn't offend you. I wasn't implying that cops do janitorial work. I was wondering if things like blood might be considered a biohazard and have to be removed before civilians could be allowed back in. Probably should have been clearer with question. Sorry about that.


Would the investigation be handled by a detective or a forensic specialist?


So, if I'm interpreting your answers correctly, the woman could conceivably be sitting in her empty apartment that night?


That's why I'm here. To learn more about police work. I don't plan on writing this overnight. I'm in my research phase now, pulling from several sources (including this site). Frankly, I don't know too many people, who aren't involved with law enforcement, that would have enough knowledge to write a story like this without first doing the kind of research I'm doing.

You didn't offend me. It's just some people think the cleanup is magically done. As John said, there are people who do that for a living, but it is expensive. If I had to do it, it would be real expensive!

Forensic specialists would handle the crime scene. Detectives would be there for the beginning of it to see if there was evidence really obvious that would help. Other evidence may take days to examine by a lab. Unlike TV, the crime scene people don't do interviews or any investigation other than compare and analyze evidence.

Whether the woman walked or went to jail would depend on a lot things. If it really looked suspicious, I would probably book her. If there was some reasonable evidence to believe it was self defense, I'd let her go. Sometimes letting the person go and not book them can enhance the investigation. When they're out, they talk to people. You never know what you might develop later. I never found it advantageous to lock up people unless I had a pretty good case already. I once took a case from an apparent self defense to premeditated murder by not arresting the killer, but continuing to talk to him and his associates. He shot his mouth off enough to get a conviction. Had I arrested him, his lawyer would have made him shut up.

As John also said, in some instances, we may keep the crime scene secured, but there is no hard fast rule on how long. In some cases, I've opened the scene within a few hours, sometimes I've kept it locked down for days. But once it's opened, the residents can go back in. Our health dept doesn't get involved in bio hazards like that, most reasonable people aren't going to want to leave it as is.

And we will, of course try to interview the woman. More than likely, if she's going to say it was self defense, she will talk to us.

[fictionwriter]

If I had to do it, it would be real expensive!

Hahahaha!

Sometimes letting the person go and not book them can enhance the investigation. When they're out, they talk to people. You never know what you might develop later. I never found it advantageous to lock up people unless I had a pretty good case already.

Great point. I can see how you might get more answers watching a person attempt to go about their normal routine than if you yanked them from it. Thanks for sharing your thought process.

[Shamrock0211]

We arent here to further your 'story telling'.

I personally would rather have folks coming here asking something like this because they are doing something worthwhile with their life as opposed to the,
"Can I get out of a ticket if the officer is not wearing his hat" questions. Or the "How do I get on the SWAT team even though I have 2 felony convictions?" questions.

[Kimble]

I personally would rather have folks coming here asking something like this because they are doing something worthwhile with their life as opposed to the,
"Can I get out of a ticket if the officer is not wearing his hat" questions. Or the "How do I get on the SWAT team even though I have 2 felony convictions?" questions.

Ain't that the truth!

[fictionwriter]

Thanks, guys. I think it's a story that's going to resonate with a lot of people.

[retdetsgt]

I personally would rather have folks coming here asking something like this because they are doing something worthwhile with their life as opposed to the,
"Can I get out of a ticket if the officer is not wearing his hat" questions. Or the "How do I get on the SWAT team even though I have 2 felony convictions?" questions.

Yep. I like questions that make me think a little as opposed to those that are hard for me to remain civil. The reckless driving one from babygrl was one of those. I had to just bypass it. The first few things that came to my mind woulda probably got me banned.....:rolleyes:

[fictionwriter]

Oh... one last add-on to the original series of self-defense questions.

Would the police handle the woman differently if the man she killed in self-defense (her boyfriend) was a known felon and currently suspected (maybe even under surveillance) of being involved in drug distribution? More specifically, would the police be concerned that there might be some retaliation against the woman from the dead boyfriend's associates?