Right of way

[TruckHappy]

We're having an war in another forum. I tried to do a search here to find an answer but couldn't.Here is the situation. Please tell me I am right. I am having another trucker tell me I was wrong for yelling at my niece that they do it all the time.
It's amazing how people are being trained to drive now a days. This isin't a truck story but it will show how things are. I let my niece drive once, we came to a 4 way intersection. the cross traffic had no stop signs but my niece and the traffic coming at us had stop signs. We had to make a left to go south. When we got to the stop sign there was traffic on the main drag going both north and south, nothing coming at us. While we waited for the traffic to pass a car had come up to the stop sign facing us going straight through. When traffic cleared my niece turned right in front of the car facing us causing him to slam on his brakes and giving me heart failure. I screamed at her and she said that she had the right of way because she was there long before he got to the intersection. To this day she still thinks she is right. Needless to say I do not ride with my niece anymore. It scares me to think that whoever taught my niece right of way laws is still teaching kids out here.

[MP_Steve]

If you were making a left-hand turn, and there was oncoming traffic (even if you both had stop signs), the vehicle coming at you (going straight) had the right of way, regardless of how long you were actually at the stop sign.

You are right. Your niece is wrong. Don't drive with her anymore.

[retdetsgt]

If you were making a left-hand turn, and there was oncoming traffic (even if you both had stop signs), the vehicle coming at you (going straight) had the right of way, regardless of how long you were actually at the stop sign.

You are right. Your niece is wrong. Don't drive with her anymore.

Not in Oregon. Here the first person arriving at the stop sign has the right of way no matter if they're going straight or turning left. Otherwise, someone could sit through several people coming straight towards them. That being said, it's possible to be dead right.

[Hop]

Not in Oregon. Here the first person arriving at the stop sign has the right of way no matter if they're going straight or turning left. Otherwise, someone could sit through several people coming straight towards them. That being said, it's possible to be dead right.

Same here. It's the order in which you arrive at the stop sign.

[Samuel]

My interpretation - TruckHappy is WRONG.


Excerpted from the Delaware driver's manual:

Right-Of-Way

Where vehicles or pedestrians are likely to meet one another and there are no signs or signals to regulate traffic, there are rules on who must yield the right-of-way. These rules tell who goes first and who must wait in different traffic situations.

The law says who must yield the right-of-way; it does not give anyone the right-of-way. You must do everything you can to prevent striking a pedestrian or another vehicle, regardless of the circumstances.

The following right-of-way rules apply at intersections:

• Drivers must yield where necessary to avoid striking pedestrians who are crossing the road.

• Drivers crossing a sidewalk entering or exiting a driveway, alley or parking lot must yield to pedestrians. It is illegal to drive on a sidewalk except to cross it.

• Pedestrians using a guide dog or carrying a white cane have absolute right-of-way. Do not use your horn as it could confuse or frighten the blind pedestrian.

• Drivers turning left must yield to oncoming vehicles going straight ahead. [WHEN THERE ARE NO TRAFFIC CONTROL DEVICES - comment by Samuel]

• Drivers entering a traffic circle or rotary must yield to drivers already in the circle.

• At an intersection where there is no stop sign, yield sign, or traffic signal, drivers should yield to vehicles coming from the right. However, it would be safest to consider yielding to all vehicles before entering.

• At a 4-way stop, the driver reaching the intersection first, goes first (after coming to a complete stop). If more than one vehicle arrives at the same time, the vehicle on the right goes first. [IMO, this would apply in the case presented in the original post - comment by Samuel]

• Drivers entering a road from a driveway, alley or roadside must yield to vehicles already on the main road. This includes entering from turn only lanes, where vehicles must yield, to include stopping if necessary.

• Drivers may not enter an intersection unless they can get through it without having to stop. You should wait until traffic ahead clears so that you are not blocking the intersection.

• Drivers overtaking a vehicle traveling in the same traffic direction must yield to that vehicle (even if the vehicle slows down or comes to a stop).

• You must yield the right-of-way to a police vehicle, fire engine, ambulance, or other emergency vehicle using a siren, air horn, or a red or blue flashing light. Pull over to the right edge of the road or as near to the right as possible when you see or hear an emergency vehicle approaching from any direction. Follow any instructions given over the emergency vehicle’s loudspeaker. If you are in an intersection, drive through the intersection before you pull over.

[mcsap]

PA law states that if vehicles arrive at approximately the same time , the vehicle on the RIGHT , has the right of way.

My interpretation is that if an opposing car comes up and stops ( no matter the time) than Truckhappy has to yield before turning left across the opposing vehicles lane of travel.

99% of the time, everyone takes turns going and it works out fine but if there is a crash...only one car can legally occupy a given space on a given piece of the road.

[retdetsgt]

PA law states that if vehicles arrive at approximately the same time , the vehicle on the RIGHT , has the right of way.

My interpretation is that if an opposing car comes up and stops ( no matter the time) than Truckhappy has to yield before turning left across the opposing vehicles lane of travel.

Oregon is the same as far as arriving at the same time, but that isn't the case here. I can't get a read from any of it that someone crossing the opposing lane of traffic has to wait if they have already arrived and waiting. Oregon law is pretty clear that the first one arriving at the intersection has the right of way and then they take turns from there.

[TruckHappy]

My interpretation - TruckHappy is WRONG.




• Drivers turning left must yield to oncoming vehicles going straight ahead. [WHEN THERE ARE NO TRAFFIC CONTROL DEVICES - comment by Samuel]


• At a 4-way stop, the driver reaching the intersection first, goes first (after coming to a complete stop). If more than one vehicle arrives at the same time, the vehicle on the right goes first. [IMO, this would apply in the case presented in the original post - comment by Samuel]

East and west bound traffic had stop signs, North and south bound traffic (the main road) had NO stop signs. My niece and I were heading west and turning left (south). Heavy traffic on the main road had us waiting. While waiting a car going eastbound came to a stop at his sign. When traffic on the main road clear the east bound car started going straight across the intersection and my niece turned left in front of him. I'm not sure which of the 2 above would apply. It was a 4 way intersection but only 2 of the 4 had stop signs. With all that said am I still right? looking at all the post above if I was in oregon I know I was wrong but I am here in Delaware.:confused:

[retdetsgt]

East and west bound traffic had stop signs, North and south bound traffic (the main road) had NO stop signs. My niece and I were heading west and turning left (south). Heavy traffic on the main road had us waiting. While waiting a car going eastbound came to a stop at his sign. When traffic on the main road clear the east bound car started going straight across the intersection and my niece turned left in front of him. I'm not sure which of the 2 above would apply. It was a 4 way intersection but only 2 of the 4 had stop signs. With all that said am I still right? looking at all the post above if I was in oregon I know I was wrong but I am here in Delaware.:confused:

To me, it seems to be a common sense thing too. In some cities, at certain times, it's quite possible to have 5 or 6 cars waiting to cross northbound over a through east/west street. Across that thoroughfare heading south, there could easily be one car wanting to turn left. For that one turning car to wait until all the 5-6 or more cars wanting to go straight across is ludicrous, especially if there are as many cars behind him waiting to go straight or wherever. According to the logic that all cars waiting to turn have to wait until all cars going straight cross is a recipe for disaster.

[TX-LEO]

We're having an war in another forum. I tried to do a search here to find an answer but couldn't.Here is the situation. Please tell me I am right. I am having another trucker tell me I was wrong for yelling at my niece that they do it all the time.
It's amazing how people are being trained to drive now a days. This isin't a truck story but it will show how things are. I let my niece drive once, we came to a 4 way intersection. the cross traffic had no stop signs but my niece and the traffic coming at us had stop signs. We had to make a left to go south. When we got to the stop sign there was traffic on the main drag going both north and south, nothing coming at us. While we waited for the traffic to pass a car had come up to the stop sign facing us going straight through. When traffic cleared my niece turned right in front of the car facing us causing him to slam on his brakes and giving me heart failure. I screamed at her and she said that she had the right of way because she was there long before he got to the intersection. To this day she still thinks she is right. Needless to say I do not ride with my niece anymore. It scares me to think that whoever taught my niece right of way laws is still teaching kids out here.

Shes wrong and I'd write her a citation for it. In general, when turning you dont have ROW unless it's given to you. Her " I'm first " nonsense should get her a ticket to the back-seat of the car for quite a while. It's life and death, operating a motor vehicle. Until she's shown she understands driving is not standing at the school lunch counter in line, she has NO business driving anything but a bicycle.

As a side note, I FIRMLY believe in 18+ for driving, no exceptions. Gotta be 21 to drink in the USA in all 50 states and should have to be 18 to drive, in all 50 states.

[retdetsgt]

Shes wrong and I'd write her a citation for it. In general, when turning you dont have ROW unless it's given to you. Her " I'm first " nonsense should get her a ticket to the back-seat of the car for quite a while. It's life and death, operating a motor vehicle. Until she's shown she understands driving is not standing at the school lunch counter in line, she has NO business driving anything but a bicycle.

As a side note, I FIRMLY believe in 18+ for driving, no exceptions. Gotta be 21 to drink in the USA in all 50 states and should have to be 18 to drive, in all 50 states.

I just looked at Texas law and I couldn't find anything there to support that strong position you have. It's clear that the operator turning left shall yield :

§ 545.152. VEHICLE TURNING LEFT. To turn left at an
intersection or into an alley or private road or driveway, an
operator shall yield the right-of-way to a vehicle that is
approaching from the opposite direction and that is in the
intersection or in such proximity to the intersection as to be an
immediate hazard.


If both vehicles are stopped, and the person turning left has been waiting before the vehicle going straight arrived, I don't see that necessarily applies. Looks to me like that means if the vehicle going straight is already in the intersection and approaching the intersection in such proximity as to be a hazard would mean where there are no traffic control devices requiring the oncoming vehicle to stop at all. There was nothing I could find that the person waiting to go left loses his turn at the intersection with stop signs.

Here's the rest of it:

§ 545.151. VEHICLE APPROACHING OR ENTERING
INTERSECTION. (a) An operator approaching an intersection:
(1) shall stop, yield, and grant immediate use of the
intersection:
(A) in obedience to an official traffic-control
device, including a stop sign or yield right-of-way sign; or
(B) if a traffic-control signal is present but
does not display an indication in any of the signal heads; and
(2) after stopping, may proceed when the intersection
can be safely entered without interference or collision with
traffic using a different street or roadway.
(b) An operator on a single-lane or two-lane street or
roadway who approaches an intersection that is not controlled by an
official traffic-control device and that is located on a divided
highway or on a street or roadway divided into three or more marked
traffic lanes:
(1) shall stop, yield, and grant immediate use of the
intersection to a vehicle on the other street or roadway that is
within the intersection or approaching the intersection in such
proximity as to be a hazard; and
(2) after stopping, may proceed when the intersection
can be safely entered without interference or collision with
traffic using a different street or roadway.
(c) An operator on an unpaved street or roadway approaching
an intersection of a paved street or roadway:
(1) shall stop, yield, and grant immediate use of the
intersection to a vehicle on the paved street or roadway that is
within the intersection or approaching the intersection in such
proximity as to be a hazard; and
(2) after stopping, may proceed when the intersection
can be safely entered without interference or collision with
traffic using the paved street or roadway.
(d) Except as provided in Subsection (e), an operator
approaching an intersection of a street or roadway that is not
controlled by an official traffic-control device:
(1) shall stop, yield, and grant immediate use of the
intersection to a vehicle that has entered the intersection from
the operator's right or is approaching the intersection from the
operator's right in a proximity that is a hazard; and
(2) after stopping, may proceed when the intersection
can be safely entered without interference or collision with
traffic using a different street or roadway.
(e) An operator approaching an intersection of a street or
roadway from a street or roadway that terminates at the
intersection and that is not controlled by an official
traffic-control device or controlled as provided by Subsection (b)
or (c):
(1) shall stop, yield, and grant immediate use of the
intersection to another vehicle that has entered the intersection
from the other street or roadway or is approaching the intersection
on the other street or roadway in a proximity that is a hazard; and
(2) after stopping, may proceed when the intersection
can be safely entered without interference or collision with the
traffic using the other street or roadway.
(f) An operator who is required by this section to stop and
yield the right-of-way at an intersection to another vehicle and
who is involved in a collision or interferes with other traffic at
the intersection to whom right-of-way is to be given is presumed not
to have yielded the right-of-way.

Again, this is ignoring the common sense idea that a person waiting to turn left could conceivably wait for numerous cars on the other side of the controlled intersection to cross. I agree with your conclusion IF there are no stop signs or it's controlled by a traffic light. But people at stop signs should get turns and I see nothing there contradictory to that.

BTW, I got my first Texas DL at the ripe old age of 14!:D They changed the law to 16 22 days after I turned 14 and got it.... I had a Texas CDL at 16.

[MP_Steve]

If I'm at an intersection attempting to turn left onto a highway and there is someone across from me [who arrived after me] who's intention is to go straight, I think I'm going to wait for them to go first.

When the north/south traffic clears I think it's safe to assume he's going to try to get across and I'm not looking to get into an accident in the middle of a busy road (like the original poster) just because I think that I may be (or may not be) right.

:rolleyes:

[MP_Steve]

In similar situations that I've been in, if cross traffic is clear and it's safe to do so, I'll enter the intersection and allow the car going straight to pass before I execute the left-hand turn.

Common Sense is an Uncommon Virtue.

:D

[TruckHappy]

WOW, Posting this thread has confused me more then ever. I'm not sure what the answer is now. I would have bet the farm that I was right, now I don't know. I'm 48 and have been driving since I was 16, big trucks since I was 18. I have been involved in 4 accidents, none of them my fault. I guess that when I come into this position again I'll keep doing as I have been since it never got me in trouble before. I'd rather sit and wait then to turn in front of someone and have to fight it out in court. But thanks anyways.

[MP_Steve]

To me, it seems to be a common sense thing too. In some cities, at certain times, it's quite possible to have 5 or 6 cars waiting to cross northbound over a through east/west street. Across that thoroughfare heading south, there could easily be one car wanting to turn left. For that one turning car to wait until all the 5-6 or more cars wanting to go straight across is ludicrous, especially if there are as many cars behind him waiting to go straight or wherever. According to the logic that all cars waiting to turn have to wait until all cars going straight cross is a recipe for disaster.

I'm going to go out on a limb and post this.

Given the same conditions the original poster has brought up:

Vehicle 1 arrives at stop sign with the intention of executing a left-hand turn when safe to do so. Vehicle 2 arrives at the stop sign across from vehicle 1 with the intention of going straight. Cross traffic clears and it's safe for 1 & 2 to attempt their movements. Both vehicles enter the intersection. Vehicle 1 yields for Vehicle 2 to pass. At that point, Vehicle 1 executes said left-hand turn.

Process repeats as neccessary. The next set of vehicles could be both going straight or the situation could be reversed in relation to the original poster. I don't think the intersetion has to only be utilized by one vehicle at a given time. That would just cause to much congestion. If cross traffic is clear, two vehicles may enter. That way the situation you've posed, RDS, may be completely avoided.