Task Force to Curb Domestic Violence?

[TXCharlie]

Does anyone have a task force (perhaps of Social Workers teamed with Cops) to follow up on Domestic Violence cases?

If you do, what does it consist of, briefly? Do you have an Org Chart, Press Announcement, and/or Policy Manual you could email me?

After 8 murder/suicide deaths in our town of 60,000 within a year (most of which had prior or in-progress verbal arguement calls), I asked our Chief to come up with a program whereby:

1) He respond Code 3 to all verbal arguements if there's no close-by cars - I know you have to kill the sirens well short of the location, but first you have to get thru traffic - Not at 90 MPH, but "Stepping it Up" in terms of using Opticons to clear the red lights, moderately speeding (maybe 10-20 MPH over) and abandonng calls such as traffic stops to get to these verbal arguements faster. Right now they don't treat them with any priority as far as I can gather.

2) He FOLLOW up on any Verbal Arguement or Domestic Violence call with social workers or chaplins on a weekly basis - If they tell them not to come back, then of course they can't return - BUT AT LEAST TRY!!!

My Chief's answer: in so many words he said I was full of **** - To #1, he said it was too dangerous. To #2, he said the Texas CCP prevents the information transfer to civilians - But I think there should DEFINITELY be a way - I think he's full of ****. #1 can be moderated to be made safe, and #2 would at the very least be possible if he brought the Social Workers in as unarmed Reserve Officers. Any thoughts on our little standoff, which we always have when I sugest something and he finds any way he can to shoot it down?

[Creeker]

>"if he brought the Social Workers in as unarmed Reserve Officers. "<

No disrespect intended, but if you suggested that little ditty to me, I'd say you were full of sh!t, too.

I don't think there is much you can do pre-emptively on a domestic call. If someone is set on taking out a spouse and himself, if he can't do it within the privacy of their residence, he's just as likely to do it from ambush.

[TXCharlie]

If someone is set on taking out a spouse and himself, if he can't do it within the privacy of their residence, he's just as likely to do it from ambush.

But in some instances, it's simply a matter of depression (especially like the last murder/suicide, where the wife took out her husband and 2 small kids with bullets to the brain - It could have very will been depression, but we may never know). Maybe a social worker could have convinced the wife to get some Prozac.

I can't help but think that it could have been prevented if some help may have presented itself at their door since their last domestic argument call in January.

I'd be willing to gamble a few thousand dollars per month to hire a social worker or train cops to follow up on DV calls - If the only reason NOT to do it is money, then there's the volunteer Chaplains, who are trained in such things as critical stress management - some of them are just itching for something to do, and this may be beneficial.

If nothing else, a cop knocking on the door and saying "Hi, how are you doing" may either help, or at the very least allow the cop to observe what's wrong with the family and develop a rep with them so the victim won't feel as threatened about calling him.

[InTheEnd]

We have guys assigned to dv cases and they follow up on them. Nobody accompanies them. When social services is called and they follow up on cases they call us if needed.

[Creeker]

But in some instances, it's simply a matter of depression (especially like the last murder/suicide, where the wife took out her husband and 2 small kids with bullets to the brain - It could have very will been depression, but we may never know). Maybe a social worker could have convinced the wife to get some Prozac.

I can't help but think that it could have been prevented if some help may have presented itself at their door since their last domestic argument call in January.

I'd be willing to gamble a few thousand dollars per month to hire a social worker or train cops to follow up on DV calls - If the only reason NOT to do it is money, then there's the volunteer Chaplins, who are trained in such thigs as critical stress management - some of them are just itching for something to do, and this may be benificial.

IMO, life ain't that simple. If Prozac solved the worlds problems, I'd have a Brother-in-law that was less of a berzerk nut job... but he's still a whacko despite years of being on Prozac. He just falls asleep with his eyes wide open staring at the ceiling, now. :rolleyes:

I think you are overestimating the attributes, conscientiousness and ethics of Social Workers and assuming that their office would even sign off on the liability of accompanying a LEO into a situation of any magnitude.

I don't know about your area, but in mine, Social workers are required to have more education than LEO's and when they've been on their job for any length of time, they despise LEO's and think we are Neanderthal's unless they come into a situation that might be a little hazardous. Then they haul *** and call Johnny Law, because they don't want their clients to know they dropped the dime.

Social workers are by their definition anti-enforcement and identify more readily with the people who they are here to "save", but would hardly willingly enter into a situation in which you are wanting them to cooperate.

AND then there is the Chief. What Chief in his right mind have you ever known that was interested in acknowledging that his Dept. couldn't handle a problem on its own. If he did, it would be showing a weakness to his Council. Thats why you have so many Chiefs who have signed on to the Anti-2nd Amendment Posse. If they can blame the gun, they don't have to blame the criminals or shed light on the fact that the criminals are still out on the street and not in lock-up.

[Valor55]

We'll never curb domestic violence until victims are not only willing to report it but also follow through with court. I can't think of maybe but a handfull of cases that ever went anywhere. Usually the victim is uncooperative and the case is kicked.

We do have a detective who has to follow up on dom vio cases and make sure everything is done properly and the victim is not in need of anything.

[TX-LEO]

You cant make people want to get along, and seek help, or to end the cycle on their own. Violence will always happen because we cant violate people's civil rights in order to babysit them. It's going to happen either way, if the actor chooses to use violence.

I've been to the same houses multiple times, and suggested all kinds of remedies, even divorce or separation yet they wont do it. We still end up going back to the same houses, and yes some of them will end up dead, injured or assaulted. Thats just how it works in a free society.

The suggestions you are making TX, would be a good idea, however the manpower required would bankrupt most small agencies, and larger ones don't have time for it either.

People will seek and obtain help when they do it themselves, thats the only way it will work.


ETA: And I refuse to run code, and put my own safety in danger for domestic issues not involving actual physical violence being reported.

[Samuel]

1) He respond Code 3 to all verbal arguements if there's no close-by cars - I know you have to kill the sirens well short of the location, but first you have to get thru traffic - Not at 90 MPH, but "Stepping it Up" in terms of using Opticons to clear the red lights, moderately speeding (maybe 10-20 MPH over) and abandonng calls such as traffic stops to get to these verbal arguements faster. Right now they don't treat them with any priority as far as I can gather.

2) He FOLLOW up on any Verbal Arguement or Domestic Violence call with social workers or chaplins on a weekly basis - If they tell them not to come back, then of course they can't return - BUT AT LEAST TRY!!!

I think the above responses to the original post have pretty muched summed up my take on DV.

IMO, CA has some of the most stringent DV laws/procedures/requirements around. Everything is about CYA.

That being said, we don't roll C3 to every family disturbance related "verbal argument" - and IMO, we shouldn't. We'll roll C3 if there seems to be imminent danger of bodily injury or worse (e.g. physical violence occurring, sounds of a fight happening, weapon(s) being brandished or used, persons screaming, pulled from phone, etc). If not, the person who is calling also has the option of Leaving The Location. C3 to Every "verbal argument" is overkill.

Follow up on DV to check the welfare of the involved parties? As your basic patrol deputy grunt, not my problem. IMO, that shouldn't be a LE responsibility - social services (civilian) follow up only. Most of the time, I am way too busy to be following up on DV welfare checks. If there is further criminal activity, sure, send me the call and I'll go check it out.

IMO, we (LE) don't have the time to be solving everyone's problems - the ones they spent YEARS developing and/or ignoring. For sure there is a problem, but IMO, you're looking in the wrong place for answers (or to put responsibility). As alluded to above, try researching how many DV arrests are bailed out by the victims that very same day, or finding out how many victims willingly stay with their abusers even after repeated incidents of DV (and counseling), or how many incidents go unreported by victims (for the stupidest reasons), or getting a percentage of how many victims piss-backwards in court and say nothing happened (or drop all charges before the case goes to court), or asking some LEOs how often they've experienced or heard of incidents where victims call for help and then attack the LEOs when they go to arrest the suspects, ETC Ad Nauseam!

[TXCharlie]

What Chief in his right mind have you ever known that was interested in acknowledging that his Dept. couldn't handle a problem on its own. If he did, it would be showing a weakness to his Council. Thats why you have so many Chiefs who have signed on to the Anti-2nd Amendment Posse. If they can blame the gun, they don't have to blame the criminals or shed light on the fact that the criminals are still out on the street and not in lock-up.

Damn you're good - You're describing our Chief exactly. ;)

[Wombat311]

Well, we have a system in place that utilises Police and, I guess you could call them a type of social worker, to deal with family violence.

We also have a system in place to deal with offenders, regardless of whether the 'vicitm' wants to proceed or not. (obvious signs of violence, property or injury, we charge them and send them court, and, if necessary, subopena the victim as a hostile witness)

There's a couple of other strategies going on as well. Unfortunately, I am the station Family Violence officer, which means I get to keep up to speed on all this crap and who we repeatedly go to and so on.

With the social worker thing, we have two systems up and running - one is a women's domestic violence crisis center, where in cases of injury or repeated calls we refer them to the WDVCS and they follow up with a visit or phone call when convenient for the vicitm and offer all sorts of services.

We have another agency that gets a partial copy of the report (took a while to set this one up what with all our privacy laws) they then go out (sometimes cold-call) to the house and offer similar services, but for both sides, be it anger management or relationship counselling. I have heard quite a bit of positive feedback about this one.

Whether it's actually decreasing family violence or not, I don't know for sure, but we are supposedly getting less calls for domestics and our repeat offenders list is decreasing.

We have a few other strategies and policies in place to deal with it as well, but no way one agency (being the Police) can deal with this by itself. It has to be a multi-agency effort.

[TX-LEO]

With the social worker thing, we have two systems up and running - one is a women's domestic violence crisis center, where in cases of injury or repeated calls we refer them to the WDVCS and they follow up with a visit or phone call when convenient for the vicitm and offer all sorts of services.

We provide all the same information, and have all the same resources available. However you cant make people use it and most don't. In obvious cases of injury assault, we make arrests, however you cant charge someone with damaging their own property, and with two people who are living together there is no way to determine who owns what poperty, with the exception of a vehicle, or other property with a title, assuming they are not common-law married anyway.


I completely disagree with states who make criminal offenses out of verbal arguments or someone punching a wall, in the name of "liability against the agency" to do "SOMETHING". This is complete nonsense and IMO is a violation of ones civil rights. Arguing about finances or a utility bill doesn't warrant someone being charged with a crime. Every married couple has an argument on occasion, including the officers who have a wife or husband and I would refuse to make an arrest based solely on an argument between a married couple.

[7mmMag]

When we have a domestic violence incident, all information and paperwork gets forwarded to our county's domestic abuse counselor. It is then her job to try and follow up with the victim/offer assistance, which is usually a thankless, fruitless endeavor.

[ChesCopPodz]

We have a domestic violence cooridinator who is a resource for victims and families. If we do a domestic violence report it gets forwarded to her. We also have a form which we are not required to fill out that has the names and ages of the children present. The DV coordinator wants us to fill them out, and even buys a gift certificate for a free dinner to the officer that turns in the most since it isn't required.

The biggest problem is that we can't help people that don't want to help themselves. I can count on one hand the number of DV victims who have actually gone and gotten the warrant on the abuser this year. Unfortunately if there are no marks or independant witnesses or suspect confessions, we cannot make the arrest. The victim has to get the warrant. As Valor said, most of the time there is PC to make the arrest, the victim and suspect have reconciled.

[Cat_Doc]

Any thoughts on our little standoff, which we always have when I sugest something and he finds any way he can to shoot it down?

Right there, in bold, is a big problem.

I do not know what your rank or position is within the organization, but you never win in "stand-offs" with the chief executive of the agency.

Maybe you should try a more diplomatic approach, if you haven't already ruined any credibility, by submitting a professional proposal?

Leave room so your chief can convince himself/herself that it is their idea. (Unless of course, your ego overrides the desire to have the policy adopted.)

Engaging in what appears to be a repetitive adversarial posture with the chief is not going to get you anywhere but on a "list."

You catch more flies with honey, than with vinegar.

[DeltaV]

Yes, TXCharlie, exactly what is your position and your experience in the field of law enforcement? Or even better yet, what is your experience investigating domestic violence cases outside of law enforcement? Just who are you to say that your chief is full of Sh!t? If your profile is correct, that's a hell of a comment coming from someone who is in a reserve police academy, a computer programmer, and a licensed security guard.

Because quite honestly, your opinions sound like those of someone who has taken a bunch of criminology classes at a college, has no real world experience, yet feels as if you know the answers to everything.

I think Valor summed it up pretty well. There are PLENTY of domestic violence laws and domestic violence programs in EVERY state. If a victim of domestic violence truly wants help, they will get it. And that is a fact no matter where you are. The fact of the matter is that after a few days go by, most victims no longer care about cooperating with the prosecution. This is even the case in repeat violence incidents.

No victim, no crime. All the social workers and code three responses in the world can't change that. The help is already there for these people, but very few of them want it. They just want a temporary solution, which is accomplished by the aggressor spending the night in jail.