Task Force to Curb Domestic Violence?

[TXCharlie]

DeltaV, I'm a resident not a LEO - Never said I was a LEO. Me & the chief or our town have clashed over everything since I can remember - CHL, Citizens Patrols, patrol rifles, Explorer scouts, Reserves, you name it. In fact, he KILLED the Reserve division.

He even had to be convinced to start the Citizens Police Academy - And he did it on condition that it would only be used for PR, not for crime prevention like other local CPA organizations participate in - Obviously that did not stand when I had something to say about it as the VP of the org - They now have Citizens Patrols, but I had to go over his head to the politicians and Town Manager before he was "convinced" (by someone). And they still leave out CHL all information from the CPA class, even though they schedule it.

He thinks it's "His" town but he's not even a resident.

I tried to have him fired once when he went against CHL's so believe me, the bad blood is probably not gonna change till he retires. I just wanted to know if this is another automatic clash or if he has a point.

The Chief serves at the pleasure of the Town Manager, who serves at the pleasure of the Council. If the voters want him to have some initiative about something, then he will either do it or he can go be Chief somewhere else - But all I'm trying to decide for now is whether he's doing all that can be done about this specific issue, or if he's just marking time and trying not to run any risks till his retirement - No risk, no reward.

I think the very first clash was YEARS ago after I did a ride-along and experienced very dangerous delays on Want & Warrant returns on a couple of traffic stops due to dispatcher overload - when I was wanting to get computers in the cars, his almost exact words were that "in my 25 years experience, computers and CAD systems are a 'Keeping up with the Joneses' item". 'll let that speak for itself. Later he did get them, and made it look like it was his idea all along.

He did the same thing and tried to take credit for it after our 3-year long clash over Citizens' Patrols - He said I wasn't important enough to affect his decisions so I had nothing to do with it - Whatever. I think it's the ISSUE OF CRIME PREVENTION that's important, so it still pisses me off that he found every reason in the world not to do it when I promoted it, but when his boses promoted it, all of a sudden he does a 180 degree flip and told the papers that he supported it 100% :mad:

I am also one of only two or three people who spoke at the Town Council budget hearings in favor of last year's police raises - You think he spoke or said a word in public in support of his own men? Hell, no. He may have supported them in private, I have no idea - But right now I just want to know if this is worth going on another "crusade" as he calls it.

Right now I'm inclined to just say to heck with promoting a Domestic Violence task force, because I don't want to him to reach out to other agencies and screw up my reserve prospects.

My instincts say that something can be done that might save someone someday, however - even though you can;t save anyone who doesn't want to be saved, as someone said, there may be that one person who does accept some help after a couple of additional contacts.

But I'm tired of promoting things that I believe do benifit the town and get no thanks whatsoever - All I get is grief, and banned from the PD's Citizens' Patrol programs (which is why I'm going Reserve - That way there are no residency requirements, so I can go somewhere else and volunteer without the grief, and without the mountains to climb.

It is such a breath of fresh air to sit in on some of the Reserve meetings I've been invited to in other cities - It's probably the best decison I've ever made, if I can just get there with my physical problems.

[DeltaV]

Just a suggestion, but maybe you should leave the policing and programs that the police department has up to the chief and those who have a clue as to what law enforcement entails. Just because you're a police buff--and you OBVIOUSLY are--doesn't mean that you should be telling the chief what he needs to do at his department. I don't know him or any of his other administrators, but I know that they know much more about law enforcement than you do based upon their experience alone.

And while it's probably a discussion better left for the verified side, I wholeheartedly agree with him killing the reserve division. I wish our chief would do the same thing.

[TXCharlie]

Agreed - my ultimate goal is to go where I'm wanted and welcomed - Those agencies that have Reserves and all the other volunteer programs are run by experienced Chiefs and Sheriffs too.

When I get my TCLEOSE and some experience under my belt, maybe you and the Chief in my town will think of me as more than a "police Buff", but I really don't give a **** :rolleyes:

I really do want to make a late career out of it, so the only thing that I do care about is if I fail because of my physical problems - Perhaps Citizens Patrol is the only thing I'm ultimately qualified for. If that's the case, I don't know what I'll do. Maybe if I just sit on the couch watching COPS and eating cheezy doodles until I croak, that will make everyone happy.

[TX-LEO]

And while it's probably a discussion better left for the verified side, I wholeheartedly agree with him killing the reserve division. I wish our chief would do the same thing.

Daaang why you hatin' on the reserves for? I was a reserve for two years. Maybe your program needs restructure or better leadership if it's causing problems, however disbanding it all together is pretty lousy.

[Cat_Doc]

...my town will think of me as more than a "police Buff", but I really don't give a **** :rolleyes:

You appear to be more of an activist than a police buff. If you were a police buff, one would expect you to know more about the realities of police work.

Maybe if I just sit on the couch watching COPS and eating cheezy doodles until I croak, that will make everyone happy.

Thou dost protest too loudly.

No need to be so overly sensitive to rather light criticism on this forum thread. If this is the way you conduct yourself in your communications with the chief it certainly explains the adversarial nature of interactions.

[Kimble]

Daaang why you hatin' on the reserves for? I was a reserve for two years. Maybe your program needs restructure or better leadership if it's causing problems, however disbanding it all together is pretty lousy.

Yep! If you put down reserves, you may be putting down some of us here who came from that fold originally. Might want to consider that not all reserve programs are poorly managed groups of wannabes, Delta.

[smcc360]

He thinks it's "His" town but he's not even a resident.

It's his department. Let the man do his job.

[TXCharlie]

You appear to be more of an activist than a police buff. If you were a police buff, one would expect you to know more about the realities of police work.

You betecha, I'm a pro-police, pro-2nd admendment, pro-volunteer, anti-status-quo activist who is always questioning whether limits are real or imaginary.

Maybe it's the engineer in me, but I believe most limits are imaginary, and what people accept as reality is often anything but.

[ChesCopPodz]

Txcharlie, although I really do admire your enthusiasm, I have to agree with cat_doc.

You aren't some whacker who decks out a used crown vic and wears a SECURITY t-shirt and all that.

You are a concerned citizen who has plenty of ideas to present to the chief. Unfortunately, the ones that have been brought up here are not feasible. This of course, doesn't stem from stupidity, it stems simply from not having knowledge of the realities that we deal with, especially the liability reality in this day and age.

DV cases are some of the most frustrating calls officers have to go to. There have been times where I literally go to the same house every night for a week because "he pushed me". Every time I have to do a report and every time I advise the victim that they are the one who has to go get the warrant. And as soon as they do, the suspect will be arrested. I'd say over 95% of the DV reports I write don't ever obtain warrants. You can't help someone who won't help themselves. No amount of follow up is going to change that. If they are willing to stand up in court and lie under oath (which happens more often than not), they are going to ignore the resources extended to them.

And the reality of the murderous DV cases, without actual stats, I'd venture to say that maybe a very few cases are first time incidents. I know personally that the 3 DV homicides I've witnessed in my career were not first time incidents. All three were residences with vast DV histories. For some reason or another, despite all the violence, they stayed together. There is nothing we can do about that. We can't force the victim to get a protective order (beyond the initial one at arrest) so if they decide to get back together, that's their decision. I'm sure the DV murders you stated are going on in your area are similar.

[Cat_Doc]

You betecha, I'm a pro-police, pro-2nd admendment, pro-volunteer, anti-status-quo activist who is always questioning whether limits are real or imaginary.

Maybe it's the engineer in me, but I believe most limits are imaginary, and what people accept as reality is often anything but.

I agree that what one puts down in theory on a drafting table or chalkboard in a theater of education can, and historically has, overcome perceived limits.

However, I have mentioned it before, and I will bore the audience with it once more.

When it comes to human nature, modern police work is really no different than it was in ancient Sumeria, 1st century Rome, mid 80's Tombstone or 2007 downtown New York.

Human nature does not and has not evolved nearly as rapidly as technology has.

When you are actually working the streets, trying to referee the live Jerry Springer shows in someone's living room, or tactically approaching a pissed off drunk in the alley behind a rowdy bar at dark-thirty in the morning, or trying to regain your night vision after muzzle flashes are coming your way; the concrete reality of the dirty side of life slaps you right in the face.

You can theorize all you want from your home, place of work or driving in the car...but if you have not been there-done that, felt the cold stab of fear, experienced the illogical chaos, challenged and obtained victory over sensory overload, then you have no justification, activist or not, to blatantly disregard or circumvent the knowledge of someone who does knows what time it is out there.

I doubt your town’s chief has been adversarial with you in suggesting (demanding?) theoretical engineering changes. Maybe you should try looking at his side when you suggest (demand?) theoretical law enforcement changes?

I will go back to an earlier suggestion; have you attempted a professional proposal or completed staff study?

Do the research, see if it will work and how much it will cost, document it, sell it, but don’t go around raising hell (threatening employment status) with demands based on a one-dimensional idea that pops in your head.

You will not win that ill advised battle.

[TXCharlie]

Point well-taken. I admit, I have a lot to learn about the darker side of humanity, even though I was raised in a home that had alcoholism and family violence (me & my mother were even shot at once)... There's always someone worse off. The police and neighbors only see the tip of the iceberg - They certainly had no idea what went on in our house.

[Cat_Doc]

Point well-taken. I admit, I have a lot to learn about the darker side of humanity, even though I was raised in a home that had alcoholism and family violence (me & my mother were even shot at once)... There's always someone worse off. The police and neighbors only see the tip of the iceberg - They certainly had no idea what went on in our house.

My condolences. I never once heard my mother and father so much as raise thier voices at each other.

By the way, our agency has a volunteer Victim Services Unit who will actually roll to a stabilized domestic violence if requested by a supervisor. They also will go out and conduct follow-up visits if requested by our full time DV detectives.

I do not currently have access to the policy and procedures for this unit, but the administrative director is extremely helpful when asked.

I don't know how she did it, but she was able to get decent vehicles donated that sit at local substations. Upon call outs, the volunteers drive their car to the substation and pick up the government ride. She also found a grant that provides a certain amount of gas reimbursement to the volunteers when they use their own vehicles.

This awesome woman knows her stuff and was instrumental in our S.O. receiving a prestigious award from the National Sheriff's Association based on the victim services we provide.

If you are so inclined, I can submit your email address to her if you want to pm me and she can answer questions about the unit concept, training, hills and valleys, available grants, et al.

Maybe you can mirror a similar program in your area, but you will have to go about it with diplomacy. ;)

[TXCharlie]

Thanks Cat Doc... if she decides to send me some info, I'll just pass it along, offer to help, and let that be that.

[cntryboy0531]

Personally, I don't think there is ever a way to prevent violence. In Florida, we have ton's of programs, help, etc for victim's of Domestic Violence. When I go to a DV call, I make my arrests or charges, advise the victim's of their right's, and give them their information handouts for services to contact. If they need further help, we have victim's advocates that can respond on scene if requested. We can give them all the help they can handle, to make the problem stop.

However, you can only help someone, that want's to be helped. I can't shove help down their throat, and ultimately, they have to make the decision to get out of the situation, and use the help presented to them. Can't tell you how many times I've responded to a house multiple times to a domestic, and made an arrest with the victim pleading me not to take them, asks how to bail them out, or just turns around and drops charges later with the state.

The only time I roll "code 3" (10-18 here), to a domestic is if it's an actual physical fight, or the Comm Center advises it's a very, very heated verbal fight. Anything else, is just not worth it.