Pretext Stops

[Edge]

I have a few questions concerning "pretext stops". Please answer the ones that apply to you.

1. Do you find yourself making pretext stops?
2. If you do, how often?
3. Do you feel pretext stops are fair and justified?
4. Would 37mph in a 35mph zone be a substantial enough violation to make a pretext stop? If not, explain how significant the traffic violation must be in order to make the stop.

[mcsap]

Define your definition of a "pretext" stop.

[Edge]

A “pretext stop” is a stop in which the officer detains the citizen for a minor crime (i.e. traffic offense) because the officer actually suspects the person of involvement in a major crime (i.e. drug possession).

[Orleander]

I know that happens. My best friend from high school got pulled over for an air freshener dangling from her rear view mirror. (vision obstruction) And they found meth. She had just bought at a house and they were watching who came out.

[Norm357]

LOL No judge in GA would uphold a traffic stop for 37 in a 35.

Norm

[Edge]

Hence why I added the line "If not, explain..." after that sentence

pulled over for an air freshener dangling from her rear view mirror. (vision obstruction) And they found meth.

Oh wow, an air freshener? That's a bit of a surprise. Thanks for the reply, Orleander. Great info!

[mcsap]

Actually a judge would hold up a traffic stop for 37 in a 35. Not an actual citation mind you but the probable cause for the stop is good.

I do pretext stops as you describe all of the time. All are PC based and in most cases I do not issue a ticket for the " fuzzy dice hanging from the mirror" although I could. I just need a legal reason to stop the car ( NO requirement that I write a citation for ANY violation) and from there we do a warant/license/insurance/contraband check. On average, 12% of the drivers in PA do not have insurance. Don't know the percentages for driving under suspension but they are out there.

I can run the tag on the car "in front of me" in traffic. My computer than runs a drivers check on the REGISTERED owner. It also tells me if this CAR has been stopped by any dept. in my county, who the driver was and why they were stopped. I can than run a warrant check by computer on the owner and the other drivers ( if any such info pops up) This can all be done BEFORE I make the stop. I can get all of this info in under one minute.

If I find a suspended driver or a poss warrant hit, I will than look for PC ( pretext ) to stop them. If I have the owners mother, she gets a friendly warning to take the fuzzy dice off of the mirror.

Otherwise my experience tells me that more often than not the younger the person and the older or hot rodded car will provide me with a good violation. Again, I will use my knowledge of the Vehicle Code to lawfully justify my stop. The rest is fun. I tell people that I like catching suspended/uninsured drivers with warrants. It is like fishing except there is NO LIMIT on how many I can catch. And there is NO shortage of fish in the pond.

I even drive around running warrant checks on our frequent flyers and than go looking for them , hopefully driving as that usually results in more shares of stock in the commonwealth being issued.

[Edge]

Thanks a lot, mcsap. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience. Pretext stops get a lot of controversy, and there have been quite a few court cases concerning them. It's good to hear about it in the eyes of an officer. One day I hope to become a LEO, but in the meantime I need to study issues such as these to finish up my AA degree in law enforcement.

Thanks again,

Edge

P.S. I hope a lot more people share their opinions/stories on this subject.

[Edge]

It just comes in handy if/when people complain later that they were stopped and searched without good cause, or when a defense attorney tries to claim that it was jst a "pretext" stop.

How often does it go that far? I assume most people wouldn't even try to fight it, but like I said before, there are quite a few cases about it.

BTW, great reply and excellent information.

[txinvestigator1]

Originally posted by DC Law
I routinely stop cars with colored plastic covers over their license plates because they are illegal and because there is no legitimate use for them other then obscuring the car's identification. I'm building a nice collection of these plates which I confiscate after writing a $50.00 ticket for them. Often the plates they're covering are expired, fake, or improper to that vehicle. And sometimes the driver is suspended or drunk or there's drugs in the car, so then they get it for that too. But the original stop is always for the obstructed tags and that's perfectly legal.

And I always write the ticket for the main reason I stopped the car. It just comes in handy if/when people complain later that they were stopped and searched without good cause, or when a defense attorney tries to claim that it was jst a "pretext" stop. When I can show dozens of similar citations issued for the same offense, the "pretext" argument goes away.

DC,

Lets suppose the defendant delays a drug trial stemming from such a stop. In the interim, the defendant pleads not guilty to the pretext charge and is found not guilty. Would that ruin your PC for the Meth charge.

I ask because where I worked the County Attorney's office did not want us to write tickets for traffic violations we observed to establish PC for a DWI arrest. Their reason to us was if the tickets were found not guilty, then the PC for the DWI went down the drain.

[mcsap]

A finding of not guitly does not negate the fact that a violation occurred. And since the standard is probable cause, not definite cause, I have never had such a problem. I can see your point though on the not guilty "bombing" the stop.

[Lfpdlieu302]

we stop for pretext all the time also, the courts have determined that pretext stops are legal. now, as far as the pc being ruled not admissable tx, we also have everything come before the court at the same time, but, if the pc for stop is found to be invalid, everything we find afterwards is thrown out.

[Scruit]

If you want to declare search results/statements as inadmissable then you must attack the original PC for the stop, not whether or not they person was found guilty.

ie Imagine you are pulled over because the officer says your car matches the description of a vehicle involved in a robbery, and the police conduct a search and find drugs. The fact that you were not involved in the burglary does not invalidate the search. However in advance of the drug trial you might file a Motion for Discovery asking for records pertaining to the time/location of the burglary and the description of the vehicle involved. With those records in hand you may be able to convince the judge/DA that the officer did not have PC to stop your vehicle because the description was not close enough to your vehicle, or even that the police cannot shopw that a burglary even happened. If the judge agrees that the officer's PC was invalid, then the search is invalid, and any evidence found is inadmissable and the DA must proceed with other evidence or drop the case.

[Edge]

we stop for pretext all the time also, the courts have determined that pretext stops are legal

Unless it's based on age, race, and appearance. That is unconstitutional, but impossible to prove of course.

[Scruit]

I was stopped in the street and questioned by the police one time because I was walking through a neighborhood at night and the police officer said; "We had a report of a burglary a couple of blocks from here...

Had the officer damanded to search me or any bags I was carrying by asserting or implying that I was a suspect and could not decline the search, then anything they find could be ruled inadmissable if I can prove that the burglary never happened or that the description of the suspect was too vauge to justify stopping me.

Thing is, I know that "We had a burglary in the area" is just a line they are using to talk to me - either there was no burglary, or at least if there was I didn't fit the description. When I asked fro the description of the burlgar "I've seen a couple of people as I was walking through this neighborhood. Maybe if I recognise the description I can point you in the direction of someone who matches it..." "Don't worry about that. Goodbye." Wouldn't an officer at least say something general like; "Have you seen a tall skinny white male with dark clothes recently?"



(In actual fact he was just making sure I was not too drunk to get home safely, and then cut me loose)