Two fold question: OC and speeding

[gdowkpc]

But don't you think that it is important for people to be able to estimate their BAC in an easy way? Someone may say, I just had beer and it's not that much...or they will say, how could a shot have as much alcohol as a beer?

I think it would be responsible of bar owners to have machines at their bars that help people to predict their BAC. But this alone is not the answer.

Beer commercials say "know when to say when", but they dont teach you when when is. People over-estimate their abilities constantly, and especially when it comes to alcohol consumption.

Why is the answer to the question of "How many beers have you had" always 'a couple'? Poeple also forget how many drinks they've had. Then they share a bottle or a pitcher with people and again they lose track. I lose track of how many colories I've consumed or burned in the day without the help of a calculator. I s a drunk person expected to keep track without some type of help?

In my interviews of people who have been arrested for DUII, I aske the question about if they are feeling the affects of the alcohol they have comsumed. I ask them to rate their feeling of soberness on a scale og 1-10, 1 being completely sober and 10 being completely wasted. The highest number I have ever seen is a 4, but 2 and 3 are the most common. Then they turn around and blow a .17. I had one guy blow a .37 who claimed to be a '3'. This is even after they have been involved in a crash. They blame the collision on the car.

Is this people just trying to get out of the charge, or are they being relatively honest? I think we need a tremendous amount of education. People need to know what BAC they are when the feel a certain way and how fast they can get there. People think as long as theyre not falling down drunk, they can drive.

Budweiser should offer the portable and personal breathalyzers for free. And courts should require someone with a DUII to carry one of these things on their person when they are consuming alcohol.

Oregon is close, requiring a breathilyzer interlock on some vehicles. But I have never arrested someone on their second or later DUII when they had a breathilyzer. This is good in the fact that they work, but not enough people have them.

[EricTheBald]

Originally posted by Lfpdlieu302
...but i can arrest and charge you even if you blow lower than that.

Which is why I have a policy of never submitting to field sobriety tests of any type.

If you think I'm drunk, we can go directly to the breathalyzer, but I'm not going to stand in the street and do the drunk dance or HGNR.

Of course, since I don't drink, the issue has only come up twice in the last dozen years, but a man's got to have a policy about some things, and this is one of them.

[zander_zye]

Correct me if I am wrong, but in most states (California included) you are subject to the implied consent law. If you refuse to take a field sobriety test (even if you want to go directly to the breathalyzer) you will have your license suspended for one year no matter what the outcome of the test is.

DCLaw and others: Can you confirm this?

Thanks
ZZ

[mcsap]

PA has Implied Consent but it only has to do with the actual blood/breath test, not the roadside field sobriety test. Penalty for refusal is a mandatory 1 yr loss of license and the fact that the person refused can be used against them in court during their DUI trial. Even if the DUI case is dismissed, the refusal penalty is an administrative penalty and stands firm. There is an appeals process for refusals but it is separate from criminal court.

[gdowkpc]

Same thing in Oregon. Implied consent is for the chemical measurement only. However, refusal to sumbit to field sobriety tests CAN be used against you! Refusal to submit to the chmical test can also be used against you, in addition to other penalties allowed under law.

Only once have I been in a situation where probable cause to arrest prior to SFST's was questionable. But everyone else I have been able to establish based on observing driving and contact at the window. I won't say what I do to gain that, because I don't want any further education of how to beat a DUII rap posted here. If you are guilty, you should be arrested and convicted. But for those who want to play the game, I am ready.

[ABQ-TJ]

Not to diminish the OC part, but no one's really asked this...

What color was the 35MPH sign? Correct me if I'm wrong and I'm sure someone will, but if it's yellow, isn't that not an enforcable sign? If it's a white sign, then this is a moot point, but was curious.

[txinvestigator1]

The "how much alcohol gets you drunk" question is interesting. Most people have little true understanding of how alcohol affects the human body.

Saying one beer, one glass of wine or one shot of whisky will get you about the same BAC may or may not be true. What size beer, what alcohol concentration of the beer, what size glass of wine and its alcohol, what proof whisky?

I wrote a long reply to this type question a long time ago, but it seems to have slipped into cybernothing

[Solego]

FIELD SOBRIETY EXCERSIZES!!! THEY ARE NOT TESTS!!! I make my judgements starting from when I first noticed your driving pattern to when you walk back to my car. THERE IS NO PASS OR FAIL!!! Say "TEST" in during trial and watch how fast you lose. DUI trials should not be jury trials either.

[Stump]

Why don't you think DUI trials should not be jury trials, Solego?
I can think of one reason off the top of my head, and that is that there are a lot of people out there who would sympathize with the DUI'er because they too may have driven drunk in the past, and just not been caught.

[Scruit]

The constitution gives us the right to trial-by-jury. If I am denied that by a local court that requires me to sit before a lone judge instead of a jury then isn't that cause to have the judge's ruling vacated and remanded for jury trial?

I know there are many good reasons to deny trial-by-jury - but until the constitution is changed to allow that, it believe it should not happen.

[txinvestigator1]

A great topic for a new thread **what do you think of our current jury system, should it change, and if so how so*****

I have seen DWI juries IGNORE evidence and find a DWI not guilty. I see this as a societal and not judicial problem though.

[Scruit]

I don't drink. Prtty much ever. In the last 12 months I have had a total of 4 pints of guiness, and even that was only to be social and I walked home those two nights.

I will refuse to participate in FSTs simply because I personally don't trust them. My line will be; "Officer, with all due respect I choose to not perform the field sobriety tests, however t ocomply with Implied Consent I will submit to any chemical testing you deem necessary."

Of course in the vast majority of cases a person who fails an FST is gonna be DUI, but there ARE cases (some reported on this site) where a person has failed at least one FST and not been impared, and LEOs on this site have stated that they could/would still charge a driver with being impaired in they blew less than a .08.

My father-in-law was arrested for DUI, failed the FSTs and subsequently blew a .09 (.10 limit at the time) and was still charged with the lesser offense.

People who know me around here know that I have an almost patalogical hatred for drunk-drivers (I was hit and nearly killed in a head-on collision with a drunk driver who was doing 80mph and crossed the median. This was many years ago) However the only thing more important that my emotions on the subject is the rule of law, and the precision of scientific measurement. The limit is set, and if the limit is exceeded as emasured by chemical testing then you're going to jail. If you are under the limit then you suck for driunking, but you are still UNDER the limit ,and an officer's subjective opinion of your state of impairment is not as scientific as it needs to be for me to trust my license/job on.

Most officers are trained and experienced enough to be trusted, but some are not. Maybe my blood suger is a little low and I don't know it, but it affects my balance. If I'm getting dizzy from hypo then will I fail the HGN test? Maybe I'm driving my wife's car and have trouble doing things like turning off the lights or finding the door handles because they are in a different place than they are on my car. Maybe I'm stressed out by the situation and my brain goes on vacation (like yesterday - it took me 30 seconds of staring at the registration I was about to hand the officer and I still wasn't able to tell him if that was the current registration or an old one) All of these little things that add up to an officer thinking I might be impaired etc.

If the officer is carrying a breathalyser like the UK police usually do, then that's great. I'll do that and be on my way.

I want the limit dropped down to as low as possible so that even one drink will put you over, but that's just me.

[txinvestigator1]

I seldom drink, but when I do it is at home. When I am out I carry a gun and operate a 2 ton vehicle. No alcohol for me please.

I would submit to FST's even though I have an inner ear problem that is causing me slight vertigo in certain conditions. (working with physician to clear it up) If I refuse FTS's I know I am taking a trip to the county jail and my vehicle will be impounded. If I take the FST's I am confident they will not indicate any impairment.

I have AT least a 50/50 chance of not taking the ride for the intoxilizer.

[CXT_180]

"I will refuse to participate in FSTs simply because I personally don't trust them. My line will be; "Officer, with all due respect I choose to not perform the field sobriety tests, however t ocomply with Implied Consent I will submit to any chemical testing you deem necessary."...Maybe my blood suger is a little low and I don't know it, but it affects my balance. If I'm getting dizzy from hypo then will I fail the HGN test? Maybe..."

Before I have someone begin FST's I ask them a series of questions concerning any medical conditions you may have, any medications you are taking, problems with feet/legs/hips etc. that may influence your performance on any of my FST's. If the person feels that they cannot perform the test, or doesn't want to perform it, I do not make them. I just write it down. As far as refusing all the tests (including the preliminary breath test, or PBT) and only submitting to the chemical test, I have never had that happen.
Question;
Do officers in Tx not carry PBT's with them? This would be a case in which the PBT wouldv'e been a useful investagative tool. I have had people "pass" the one legged stand test and I have still arrested them for DUI.
Also, I belive that with the HGN a BAC of >.10 is primarily found where there is onset of Nystagmus prior to 45 degrees in addition to the other two indicators.
Does everyone use the "point" system for the HGN
lack of smooth pursuit,Onset prior to 45 degrees, and distinct nystagmus at max. would be all three points for one eye. With a maximum of six points for the test.

[txinvestigator1]

I don't think many TX cops carry PBT's. Perhaps specialized DWI task forces, but not the typical street cop.