Zero Tolerence

[HK45cal]

In the majority oh High Schools in America the school board has implimented "zero tolerence" policy in schools stating that any student caught in possession of a handgun/rifle on school grounds will automatically be expelled and cannot return to school.

In the wake of "columbine" style school shootings I understand why this is in place; however on the other hand are we pushing a child out of the door and into a life of crime


???????

[Stump]

*Warning - this is a topic I feel strongly about. :D*
No, we are teaching children that it is not a joke.
I support the schools decision in this. It is up to the school to teach the children and keep them as safe as they possibly can while in school. The parents need to take some responsibility in raising their children to be a productive member of society.
I don't want to worry about my children being in a school with some punk-*** that carries a gun to be 'cool'.

I also agree with zero tolerance on underage drinking/driving.

[Oldbillplod]

I agree with stump. If you cant teach them what is right and wrong in school then what hope have they got in the big wide world.

[EricTheBald]

Zero Tolerance laws are in themselves dumb, and they lead to even dumber actions.

A principal doesn't need a "zero-tolerance" rule to suspend or expell a kid from school. They were doinging it for years before anyone even heard of zero tolerance.

BUTm what zero-tolerance DOES do is to insure that common sense is taken out of the equation.

Like a young boy drawing the sort of violent doodles that all young boys draw, involving explosions and space aliens, etc.
Expelled under zero tolerance.

Or the kid who's mother packs a small paring knife in his lunchbox to make it easier for him to peel an orange.
Expelled under zero tolerance.

Zero tolerance is nothing more than an excuse to surrender responsibility.

My Father was an asst principal in NYC for years, and he had no problem putting his foot in a kid's *** if he had to, or tossing out a troublemaker. He didn't need some law to tell him what to do. He KNEW what to do.
Just like a person in that position is supposed to know.

But if you pass a law, then you don't have to think, you don't have to weigh facts and you don't have to make hard decisions.

Zero-Tolerance, along with 3-strike laws, are just a symptom of a society that has abrogated it's responsibility to actually participate in running the country, and it's a harbinger of tyranny. Unfortunately, by the time the majority of the populace figures this out, it will be too late.

[Stump]

The kids' mom who put the knife in her kids' lunch deserves a kick in the ***.
They will notify the parents and the students what will not be tolerated so they know the groundrules from the beginning.

[zander_zye]

Never thought I would say this, but I am 100% in agreement with Eric.

Zero-tolerance laws are usually a rash response to having to deaing with a particular problem. Are all children who wear black coats to school potential Columbine killers? Are all gun owners potential murders? (of course not).



Interesting tidbit: A child can be expelled in California for threatening violence (not doing it) or by carrying even the most obscure of weapons. However, the district court ruled that Punjabi boys coming into puberty can carry their "puberty knives" (a small sword type knife) - the court ruled that this is a religious medallion simular to a cross worn by Christians. Although I believe in the 1st amendment, I think this goes too far by allowing a child to legally bring a weapon to school under the guiese of religious freedom (the court ruled that since there was no "reported" cases of these knives being used to inflict harm, that it was OK. - interesting - unfortunatley the court was wrong as these knives have been used as weapons).

[Zendik]

There is NO reason for kids to have weapons of any kind at school, I don't think there will be much of a debate here......

[txinvestigator1]

Zero tolerance rules are absurd. Like Eric wrote, it takes common sense out of the equation.

I do NOT believe that expelling a student pushes them "out of the door and into a life of crime". As if school or crime are the only two choices. Please!

[GMan26]

I'm with Eric on this one.

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"Zero tolerance is nothing more than an excuse to surrender responsibility"

"Zero-Tolerance, along with 3-strike laws, are just a symptom of a society that has abrogated it's responsibility to actually participate in running the country, and it's a harbinger of tyranny. Unfortunately, by the time the majority of the populace figures this out, it will be too late."

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[Zendik]

Now I am confused... Are we talking Zero Tolerance and 3 strikes in general or in school? Is Zero Tolerance in the drug war and 3 strikes for like assult a good thing?

[Norm357]

<Rant On>


I hate zero tolerance laws for students. They make no sense and do not teach personal responsibility. To expell a child for drawing a picture of a gun or playing cops and robbers with their fingers as weapons is absurd!


<Rant Off>




Norm

[EricTheBald]

Zendik -

The basic premise, whether we are discussing zero tolerance in schools or 3-strike laws in courts is this:

You have a person or persons whose responsibility it is to deal with problems and who has the authority to take corrective actions or mete out punishment.

This might be a principal, dean & teacher, or it might be a judge & jury.

In either case they are supposed to look at the totality of the circumstances, including past behavior and personality, and try to determine what would be the best way to deal with this person and what he/she has done.

[Zendik]

OH!! Okay.... I see... Thanks, Great Bald One!!!!

[zander_zye]

What Eric mentioned is exactly why I do not minimum sentencing laws. I want to have a judge look at the entire circumstances of the offense as well as the background of the offender - as well as the impact to the victim before passing sentence. This is called "justice".

The good thing about most judges is that a great number are elected officials. If you don't like their sentencing records, then you simply vote them out of office. This provides the checks and balances to make sure that justice is balanced with common sense and the public good.

[HK45cal]

This was a discussion I was having with someone this morning. I can honestly see both sides on why this in place; however I think its carrying it too far by not allowing this child to continue his/her schooling in some manner. We have to understand that as children,pre-teens and teens we do not always make the best decision. I think some sort of punishment is appropriate in this situation and I also think some guidence is also in order as well