Miranda Rights?

[Swat1]

I also agree with Ghost and retdetsgt. As a former detective and detective supervisor we ran into the same problem on a few occasions. If the issue is one that detectives will be talking to later, let them Mirandize the subject. retdetsgt, I feel your pain on that one, I had the exact same scenario happen to me on a rape case.

Swat1*

[vadep]

I agree totally with Ghost1. IF you are the sole investigator, that's fine. But if someone else (a detective) is going to interview the suspect later, don't give him miranda and don't ask him any questions. If he says something in the backseat, it's a spontaneous admission and can be used in court regardless of miranda.

Great answer, and I couldnt agree more. I'd much rather our patrol deputies did NOT mirandize if I'm doing the interviews...

[Ghost 1]

Let me give the pro-Miranda guys a little scenario. This actually happend to me so its not like I'm gonna quote some obscure case law. :D

I recieved a call one night to go to the ER in reference to a shooting. When I arrived,the nurses said they had a gunshot victim,and she was brought there by her boyfriend. I went up to the boyfriend and asked what happend. He gave me a story that him and her were in the bedroom and she went to get his pistol for him from the top of the closet. When she attempted to grab it,it fell and discharged,striking her in the back. I said OK,let me get your name and etc for the report. I asked him to tell me once more what happend so I could get it right. He said he had the gun in his hand and she grabbed it,making it go off. Keep in mind that the victim was shot in the upper back or her shoulder so neither story was possible. I stopped questioning him at that point and called for the investigators. Once I filled them in and they were on the way,they asked if I would transport the suspect to the station and I said sure. I asked the suspect if he would talk to the investigators of his own free will and take a ride with me and he said sure. I also informed him that it was dept policy that we don't transport anyone who isn't in cuffs,and he said fine and let me cuff him. I did not question the suspect after he was handcuffed.

Anyway,on the stand the defense attorney made a big deal that I questioned his client without Miranda. He also asked me if the offender was free to leave and I told him no. The attorney made a big deal that I "interrogated" his client without reading him his rights cause he was under arrest. I told the attorney that the offender was NOT under arrest at the time I dealt with him,but that he was not free to leave either. He was under an "Investigative Detention" as he was the only person in the room at the time of the shooting and he was the only one who knew exactly what happend.

The court ruled that my statement was admissable because the first responding officer to the scene has a right to ask basic questions without Miranda,to figure out what was going on. Also,the Investigative Detention stood because the courts also agreed that the offender was the only witness to the incident that I knew of and as such,was not free to go until he was cleared as a suspect.

Final count:Me one......Suspect-Life for murder.

Don't get hung up on Miranda as you don't need it as much as you think you do. Just study up and know when you absolutely need it. If you don't need it,don't Mirandize. It just gives the lawyers something else to argue. :D

[Ghost 1]

Sorry,it won't let me edit. The victim was shot in her upper right shoulder,in the back,and it glanced off the bone and came down through her torso and out her left kidney area. So the story of the shot coming from UP and striking her was BS.

[rdp]

I agree Miranda is overused and improperly taught by a bunch of people.

We lost a murder conviction because a patrol guy screwed up with Miranda.

Unless it is a murder, our patrol guys will handle almost all of the investigation. Rarely will it involve a detective.

[lindat2957]

I hate to be argumetative at such a new stage in life...but I have been the patrolman for my whole carear....I work in a city where the patrol guy is stuck with the whole shebang....in a nut shell, if we don't have custody or interrogation then no miranda...I will "interview" all day long, before I throw the cuffs on....In my state the "was he free to leave?" question is huge, it determines custody, if the answer is no then miranda applies, however even outside of miranda general booking questions are allowed...even with custody if you are not going to interview then don't bother advising...but as far as do we "have" to read it from a card...the simple answer is if procedure doesn't dictate it then no you don't...my habit has always been that I advise miranda, at the station, from the bottom of our booking sheet....this way in court I always know how I handled something and don't need to rely on memory, but it is not a requirement....hopefully this answers your question.

[dwf]

Why would you shush them if they are speaking without you asking them questions?

Learned the hard way about how easy it is to tank a case.

Specific example comes for a DV call...usual investigatory questions figuring out who tossed the first punch, cuffs go on the aggressor (him) and the custody prong of Miranda has been met. Not ready for any more yakking and wanting to get out of the house as quickly as possible as soon as he was done with the dying fish routine I get him out of the house. He made some very damning statements in response to a flip remark I made on the way to the car. Defense was able to get his statements tossed because of no miranda and an accusatory statement "designed to provoke a damning response" made by yours truly.

It's just easier and safer to tell them to zip it for a second, and it gives me a few seconds to shift modes from responder to a more in depth series of questions if necessary. Of course most are slam dunks like the assault example and there aren't many worries. It's just a habit I've gotten into, figuring better safe than sorry.

[MOCOP]

Unless I'm asking guilt seeking questions you don't get read. If I read you you sign a form.

[Group9]

Nothing makes me go 10-8 faster than to arrest a guy, have some new agent drive him to lock up while I finish up at the scene, get to the jail, and have the new agent tell me, "I gave him Miranda and he wants a lawyer."

If you are going to do my interrogations for me, please don't screw them up.

[Sleuth]

As a Customs Investigator, the waters were a bit murky. We could detain you until we completed our 'inspection', prior to allowing you to enter the US. We could restrain you, but you were not "in custody", just 'detained for examination'.
One of my cases made it to the Circut of the Supreme Court, where I siezed some phony cancer cure drugs from a woman. She elected to stick around to see if they would be forfit, and during that time made a lot of admissions against her interest, I ended up later getting an arrest warrant for her.
It was neat, later being and instructor at the Academy, and named in the Law Course textbook.

[JD45]

Kind of late in the post, but better late then never...:D

We have Miranda cards we can read off of. We can also have the suspect sign the card if she/he isn't handcuffed. If they're handcuffed we just write 'handcuffed' on the signature line.

Also there is case law that says you don't have to read them verbatim either. So even if you go from memory, and mix them up or change a few words, you're still OK, as long as you get the jist of them across. I'll look for the case law if anyone needs.