What do you guys think about this?

[dercoderco]

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/inv...dercovers.html

is it true in your opinion. Do you think its right for those cops to go to the media with this or should they have just kept it inside?

[Star]

Well, there is the chain of command and the grievance process. Anything outside of that isn't right, in my opinion. Certainly not going to the media.

[retdetsgt]

They should have gone to the union rather than the media, I agree.

That being said, one of the things that has pissed me off about cops for years is they will take a piece of equipment out, break it and then put it back on the shelf and never say anything to anybody. I don't know how many times over the years that I went to get a wire transmitter or something only to find out that it didn't work and somebody had been too lazy to even tell the admin guy to get it fixed!

That was the first thing I thought of when I read that the UC's Kel didn't work, I bet some other cop had probably used it, found it wasn't reliable and threw it back in the storeroom. Of course, I don't know that, but at least on my dept. that would be a highly likely scenario. :mad:

That's why when I worked drug labs, I had all our safety gear transfered to the fire dept. Those guys take care of stuff like their lives depend on it, because it does. For some reasons, if it isn't a firearm, cops don't follow that logic.

[JD45]

I have to be devils advocate here and disagree with Star (still luv ya).

Yes, there are grievances and such you can file. But sometimes the complaints just don't go anywhere or fall on deaf ears. I've brought up issues that relate to safety and or improving aspects of our job. Anything ever done? Nope. Our radios or just as what NYPD is describing. Work when they want to.

So if going to the media meant improving the safety of the officers I work with...then by all means. Of course prior to that you would have to give the chain of command at least a try.

[retdetsgt]

What we did, JD45 was go straight to OSHA when we had that problem. Even police chiefs and sheriffs are afraid of OSHA because they hit them right in the pocket book. And if they try to retaliate, they hit them even harder. I've seen it happen. The chiefs and so forth can let a story die down, but they can't ignore OSHA.

[JD45]

What we did, JD45 was go straight to OSHA when we had that problem. Even police chiefs and sheriffs are afraid of OSHA because they hit them right in the pocket book. And if they try to retaliate, they hit them even harder. I've seen it happen. The chiefs and so forth can let a story die down, but they can't ignore OSHA.

Good idea. I'll keep that in mind. I just know the consequences of becoming a 'black sheep'...:(

[retdetsgt]

Good idea. I'll keep that in mind. I just know the consequences of becoming a 'black sheep'...:(

I was known as more of a screaming banshee when we were going into drug labs unprotected.... Sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do.

[Valor55]

I'm sure they've been trying for a long time to change things from the inside. When it doesn't work they go public with it. There may have been a better way to do that (union maybe) but I have no doubt NYPD brass is the same as it is everywhere, obstinate and unwilling to help. They are so willing to sit in their ivory towers and tell us how to do the job but have no idea what they are talking about. All they care about are budgets, not officer safety.

[vadep]

I'm sure they've been trying for a long time to change things from the inside. When it doesn't work they go public with it. There may have been a better way to do that (union maybe) but I have no doubt NYPD brass is the same as it is everywhere, obstinate and unwilling to help. They are so willing to sit in their ivory towers and tell us how to do the job but have no idea what they are talking about. All they care about are budgets, not officer safety.

I'm thinking along the same lines... kinda reminds ya of Serpico..

[corporal716]

if going to the media meant improving the safety of the officers I work with...then by all means. Of course prior to that you would have to give the chain of command at least a try.

I'm with JD on this one. I'm sure they did not run right to the media without trying to resolve it in house first.

[Deputy757]

I was known as more of a screaming banshee when we were going into drug labs unprotected.... Sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do.

I'd heard other reasons for your rep as a screaming banshee but that's fodder for another thread!! :D

[Seand442]

It may not be the most appropriate way but it could be the most effective. If, by going to the media, they can get some public support, the brass will usually fall over for that. The reason the brass usually doesn't do anything is because the people they answer to never know about it. If the mayor is made aware of this and the potential for lawsuits, something might be done. It's all about the benjamins. If the city can be sued for millions, they have some motivation.

[Valor55]

When it is obvious the bureaucrats won't do anything you go to the media. The purpose there is to have the media pressure the politicians. Politicians hate being embarrassed or appear unsupportive of something as basic as safety. Then you have pressure from above on the bureaucrats. Hopefully that will get things to change.

[Group9]

I wouldn't have gone to the media, but I have the luxury of working for an agency where undercover operations are a large part of what we do. Consequently, we have a lot of policies and procedures that are sadly based on incidents where someone got hurt or died, that make our undercover operations safer.

For one, we have an ironclad rule that if the undercover is confortable with the way something is being done, safety wise, he or she does not get overuled by a supervisor and told to do it anyway. If a supervisor did, and tried to jam the agent up, the undercover could take it upstairs to upper level management, most of whom have been undercover as agents in the past themselves.

What I bet is going on here, is supervisors who have never worked undercover telling officers to do things undercover that anyone with any experience wouldn't do. Tech equipment gets treated badly, and it does break. But, you don't send an undercover out with bad tech equipmen or inadequate back-up and surveillance officers. You also test Kels and other gear before depending on it to save someone's life. If all of our tech equipment is broken, or in the shop, we borrow it from another agency.

There is an old saying in my agency that there is really no way to be 100 per cent safe when doing undercover, and it is somewhat true. Bad tradecraft, and bad equipment can make it a lot less safe.

Going to the press for any LEO has got to be a last resort technique. Maybe, it was justified here, and maybe it wasn't.

[Group9]

The no edit function is tough. Change the first sentence in the second paragraph to add "not" in front of "comfortable". :D