Question - obtaining a Search Warrant

[TwistedSister]

I joined this forum hoping to find help with reasearch for some fiction I am writing. This may be more of a legal question, but all the similar forums in that area require a fee to join! Hmph!

My detectives are investigating a series of murders. They are pretty sure how the woman they suspect accomplishes it. She gives her victims a series of medications to induce a certain chain effect. This is all speculation - she has to actually be successful but she isn't aware of that. The medicines have been found forensically in the victims. Now they are aware of her next victim and have endorsed his help. If he is able to produce the drink that she has spiked - and it is analyzed to contain the suspected medicine - is this enough to get the police a warranto to search her home? The drug in and of itself is not harmful.

[acreature]

Based on hat you have said, in my opinion.... No.

There must be more articulable suspicion. A totality to lead to that Probable Cause needed.

[Babysmamadrama]

No, but if the potential victim gave the cocktail to the police after taking it from the suspects home, it would not be considered fruit of the poisonous tree. (Illegally obtained by a government agency)

[TwistedSister]

Based on hat you have said, in my opinion.... No.

There must be more articulable suspicion. A totality to lead to that Probable Cause needed.

If she follows thru, in identical steps, what they are pretty sure she has done in the case of her previous two victims, is this "articulable suspicion"? I realize I am allowed some degree of poetic lisence, but I want to be at least close to accurate.

[scott715us]

No, but if the potential victim gave the cocktail to the police after taking it from the suspects home, it would not be considered fruit of the poisonous tree. (Illegally obtained by a government agency)

Unless he is working on behalf of the PD. ;)

[txinvestigator1]

I joined this forum hoping to find help with reasearch for some fiction I am writing. This may be more of a legal question, but all the similar forums in that area require a fee to join! Hmph!

So you will be giving your fiction away free?

[Ranger__101]

Unless he is working on behalf of the PD. ;)

Actually that would be illegal also. If I as an LEO tell some one to go in and get something for me that I can not get legally, the item would be considered "fruit of the poisonous tree" and not considered admisible or usable.

The reason that would be illegal is they would be acting as a agent of the Law Enforcement Officer. As an agent they are required to follow all the laws and rules that an LEO is required to do.

Now if some one goes into the are, takes an item and voluntarily turns it over to the Law Enforcement Officer with out being directed or asked for it that would be legal to use since the LEO didn't have a direct role in getting the item.

Now if I could remember the case law that decison came from. We were given so many case in Const. Law.

[scott715us]

Actually that would be illegal also. If I as an LEO tell some one to go in and get something for me that I can not get legally, the item would be considered "fruit of the poisonous tree" and not considered admisible or usable.

The reason that would be illegal is they would be acting as a agent of the Law Enforcement Officer. As an agent they are required to follow all the laws and rules that an LEO is required to do.

Now if some one goes into the are, takes an item and voluntarily turns it over to the Law Enforcement Officer with out being directed or asked for it that would be legal to use since the LEO didn't have a direct role in getting the item.

Now if I could remember the case law that decison came from. We were given so many case in Const. Law.

I know. That's why I made the statement on that quote. ;P

[Ranger__101]

Yep.. Just trying my best to make in a little more of a clear answer for Twistedsister, if that helps them any.

[TwistedSister]

So you will be giving your fiction away free?

Well, I don't have any publishers beating down my door just yet, so anything is possible.

Actually that would be illegal also. If I as an LEO tell some one to go in and get something for me that I can not get legally, the item would be considered "fruit of the poisonous tree" and not considered admisible or usable

The "Cocktail," since that is what it has become, wasn't TAKEN by the alleged victim, if that makes any difference. She gives it to him. And, with the suspect following the same pattern she has in the past, I don't see how probable cause would not be the case. They don't need enought to CONVICT her just yet, only suspect her, yes?

[acreature]

They don't need enought to CONVICT her just yet, only suspect her, yes?

You need Probable Cause for a Search Warrant, not Reasonable Suspicion.

[cecilVA]

I was watching a Discovery Channel forensic show of some kind awhile back and they did a story on a somewhat similar true incident. Girl was dating this guy, girl kept getting really ill and realized it only happened when he was over at her house and cooking for her and specifically fixes her a drink. She informs the police and they ask her if she can get the drink and give it to them and they would test it. Turns out it was full of poison. They then setup in her house with cameras and stuff, she invites the guy over, he fixes the cocktail, they bust him. At least thats what I remember from the episode.

[tpd_six]

I think it would be easier if you had her bring the drink to the victim's place, then have him give it to the police after she leaves. If they already suspected her, the drink wasn't obtained illegally, and then was tested after being lawfully placed in the police's control, that would amount to probable cause to go further, such as obtaining a warrant to search for the chemicals, IMHO.

You would have to show a clear link between the suspect and the other victims, and have a credible witness as the last intended victim.

[TwistedSister]

I think it would be easier if you had her bring the drink to the victim's place, then have him give it to the police after she leaves.
You would have to show a clear link between the suspect and the other victims, and have a credible witness as the last intended victim.

This is exactly how it pans out - but that's not my problem. I need the detectives to be able to get a search warrant to go and search her home - looking for other things.

[samseed101]

It would be easier to set up a sting and have her give it to the victim at his residence while officers are observing through cameras / microphones, etc. Then if they have enough they can arrest her on the spot and easily obtain a warrant. If they don't have enough evidence (like if they had to wait for test results), then they could show that she put something in the drink, show that she gave him the drink, and show how it is similar to the other deaths. Then they should also be able to get a warrant rather easily.