Expungements and LE

[doomtsu]

I am currently employed by a local LE Agency and have a friend that is interested in applying to become a LEO. He has a little blemish on his background and was asking me advice on wether or not he has a chance of being hired or not.

I don't have much experience with this kind of thing, so I really didn't feel that I could give him a fair answer, so i'm posing this scenario to RP and it's distinguished members.

THE STORY

About 7 years ago he was hanging out with a group that he no longer associates with. He was in his car with 4 other occupants in a park late at night, 3 of which were friends and one was a "friend" of a friend. Well long story short, one of the genius's in the back seat decided he's bored and lights up a joint, no sooner did he do that, a patrol car rolled up behind them.

Upon the officers arrival on scene, the "friend" of the friend starts unloading his pockets of incriminating evidence (bag of weed, and a bag with some seeds). When the officers came to the vehicle and smelled the marijuana, they asked "ok, who has it?". The one kid who lit up, produced the lit joint and whatever he had in his pockets. After having everyone get out of the car so he could do a search, the officer finds the bag and the seeds on the floor of the car. Since nobody would own up to it, the posession charge got pinned on the driver, my friend.

He was charged, went to court, and got a conditional discharge. (If he stayed clear of any drug related offense for a year, the charge would be dismissed). He has totally given that lifestyle and those friends up, and has been on the right track for the past 7 years.

He applied for an Expungement, and it was granted and it's official now, the records have been sealed or "erased". Technically, the offense/charge is deemed to have never taken place with the expungement ruling. I have given him some advice and told him to be truthful about it anyway, it will prove him to be an honest person.

NOW THE QUESTION

If you have been straight for a significant amount of time, went through with the Expungement, and have since went on to graduate college with a BA. Will most departments avoid you like the plague? Or does he have a shot at becoming a LEO? He's really a good kid, and is motivated to get this job.

**Personally I think I'd want someone who knows the difference between right and wrong, took responsibility for his mistakes, and now is looking for something better in life, but I'd like to know what you guys think.

Sorry for the long winded explanation, but I just had to get all of the important facts out there.

[acreature]

One mistake, and proof that it has been learned from, will most times, from most agencies (Not all, mind you) can be accepted.

But honesty and remorse about the situation is key.



Edit - another "my friend" thread :D

[Seand442]

ah, the infamous friend.
Seriously, if it has been 7 years, he should be good to go with most depts. That being said, tell your friend, DO NOT LIE about his run in(s) with the law. Nothing will get you the boot faster than the ol white lie.

[doomtsu]

LOL....guys i have to say that it seems a little fishy with the "friend" question, but I am already with a LE Agency, it SERIOUSLY is regarding a friend of mine.

your responses are pretty much what I figured the case to be, but It's always nice to have other LEO's 2 opinions.

I'm just a newbie, and the most important lesson i've learned, is that i don't know Sh*t!! Yet!

[hitnrun]

I tried to get my genitals spunged once...the lawyer just looked at me real funny!

[acreature]

OMFG, milk on the screen yo, milk is on the screen! :D


Now, who's gonna clean this crap up? :D

[doomtsu]

ha ha......that's classic...

[samseed101]

He applied for an Expungement, and it was granted and it's official now, the records have been sealed or "erased". Technically, the offense/charge is deemed to have never taken place with the expungement ruling.

If you are indeed a Law Enforcement Officer (not sure if you were trying to imply that or not), then you should know that the records are not "erased". Matter of fact, it's the opposite of what you say. Technically, the offence / charge did take place. And if he attempts to cover it up or pretend it didnt happen, the BG investigator will find out and that will pretty much end his chances anywhere (because other agencies will get his information from the original investigator). He may not have to mention it on a job application if he is applying to McDonalds, but I would not omit it from a Police application.

[doomtsu]

I am a LEO (Class II), been on since June, just haven't gotten around to getting verified (if a Class II even can that is).

I know that it's not "Erased", that's just lawyer talk. I believe in NJ though, if you were asked if you were ever charged with a crime, legally you could answer "No", regardless of what type of job you were applying for. It is technically deemed to have never happened (in who's eyes i have no idea), but again, that's legal jargon. I'm curious what other state laws are regarding this.

Now would I personally answer "No"?, absolutely not, especially for a LE position. I know very well that BI's will find anything and everything about you. I was speaking to one of our detectives that does the BI's and he said that people try to hide stuff all the time. Usually it's nothing that would have given them much of a problem, but because they lied, they were DQ'd.

I appreciate the advice guys, thanks a lot. I'll tell him to be honest and open and see what happens. It's worth a shot.

[mcsap]

If he answers "no" and they find out , he WILL be immediately DQ'd. I don't see a problem with all of the factors mentioned. He should apply.

[Group9]

Expungement will not prevent law enforcement from getting criminal records in most cases. Most law enforcement applications will be specific and say whether or not they want expunged records included in your application. If it does not, I would assume they want them and put it in. It is probably going to come up in a competently conducted background check, anyway. Better to clear the air and mention it first.

[acreature]

Typically, your Criminal History has already been obtained. The questions we ask are, "Have you ever committed a crime that could have had you charged with a misdemeanor or felony" "Have you ever been charged with a crime" that sort. Your expungement means zilch, whether you have been told you can answer no or not.

[codered]

The charge he faced, vs. a 'pysch' by the department will be a totallity ....i.e. his frame of mind as to how he feals about drugs, theft and the like. When asked, tell your freind to be honest.

[scott715us]

I have seen a couple of folks mention that expungments=not erased. I worked directly with expungements in my state before becoming an LEO and if they are done correctly, they are erased. THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT A BI WILL NOT FIND THEM, BUT THE GENERAL PUBLIC WILL NOT EVER SEE THE CHARGES AGAIN.

The charges that were expunged come to our unit and were cleared from the state computer, the fingerprint (ten print card) was shredded (with their name and charge(s) on it) and the expungment was sent to the FBI for them to do the same with the record.

I think your friend has a good chance of becoming an LEO since he has led the "righteous" path since his little "incident." Being honest with the LE agency is the way to go. ;)

[doomtsu]

I let him read these posts today, it definitely raised his spirits on the issue. Thanks again guys, RP is the best!