Mental Person (5150) last night, what would you have done?

[my58vw]

Hello all again.

I just got off the most "wonderful" shift that I can think of at my job. This post though is about a specific thing that happened towards the end of my shift.

Around 23:00 I was patroling my normal beat in the local community area on my bike (security officer). I left the area to go to another area that we patrol around 23:10. I was pushing fast down a busy 4 lane divided highway when I past a guy on another bike down on the second level of the road (a lowered sidewalk below the street on my side). I was not really paying attention but I heard a call for a police officer. Instinctly I turned around, not because I am a police officer but because I am called that everyday by people in the community. Of course that is another issue and I will not go there now...

I approached a male white approximatly 5'10" tall, 35 - 40 years of age with brown hair and a beard of the same color. He had been crying and was sobing when I found him. I did I quick visual search when I first saw him then approached. I noticed a bulge in the back on him shirt (a blue t-shirt with a local sports team logo screened in the pocket area). Seeing that from behind I told the guy to put his hands where I could see them and I lifted the back of his shirt to see a flashlight, a wallet, and a few other things, no weapon).

I began talking to the guy and it was apparent that he did think I was a police officer so I began to tell him that I was not and I did not call the police of intend to arrest him. He told me last time he was like this the police sent him to jail for wanting to kill himself. I asked whether he was feeling like that now and the subject said yes. I proceded to calm him down and build some trust between us at that paint and when he was distracted I was able to call for backup over the radio.

To make a long story short backup arrived, one being a former police officer looking for a job locally and another individual. They were both in the formal blue uniforms (I was in my white bike officer uniform) and right away the subject started cussing and throwing a fit. I told them to stay in the crown vics while I calmed the guy down. I reassured them that these were not police and they both got out. After a little more reassurance that they were not cops we were able to get him to go home. We found out that he just had a fight and he was not sober. Eventually I put my bike in the back of one of the crown vics and was able to take the guy home (after a through weapons search).

I want to know what you would have done as police officers in the situation. The subject was adiment on no police so I was not going to call then. I did find out that he did have a warrent but in this state I was not about to arrest on that. I did give the police the address where the guy was living when I talked to the dispatcher over the phone. I jsut asked that if they were going to pick him up on the warrent to please let him sleep this off tonight. I do not know if they picked him up this morning but I will go and talk to whoever handles this this afternoon.

Once again what wouldyou have done as a police officer?

Thanks

[acreature]

Temporary Custody pending an Evaluation at a local Hospital. Evaluated by a Physician and Mental Health Worker.

You let him go home. What if he offed himself or someone else after you left.

[my58vw]

You let him go home. What if he offed himself or someone else after you left.

He seemed stable at that point. I do not know what offed means.

I did not put up this thread to have it tore down. I do not have the training of a LEO in cases like this so some pointers would be nice, not as tear down.

Thanks

[MegaByte]

He seemed stable at that point. I do not know what offed means.

I did not put up this thread to have it tore down. I do not have the training of a LEO in cases like this so some pointers would be nice, not as tear down.

Thanks

Lighten up, this was not a put down but rather some information and a question to get you looking at situation in a different way.

By you being a good guy, you are not always doing the bad guy a favor.

[doomtsu]

Offed = Kill

Not trying to tear down your post but.....I can give you this advice for next time. If you don't have the proper Police training, then call someone who does to handle the situation. If he was suicidal you are lucky to be alive yourself! I am a Class I officer, with very limited police powers, we are trained in the basics (terry stops, basic interviewing, and searches for weapons to name a few). We are told that if ANYTIME we find ourselves in a situation we were not trained for, to call a Full Time officer for assistance. Not to mention we don't have the equipment(Gun, OC, Training) to handle a potentially disaterous situation!

It may have seemed like you were doing a "nice" thing for this guy, but you really never know what that person's intentions are.

stay safe man.....

[goldstargirl]

The second that he mentioned that he wanted to hurt himself the cops should have been called. There is a huge liability there. You take him home where he has a gun and he blows his brains all over the bedroom wall. Not good. I am glad you are safe thou

[my58vw]

I do have some protection, we carry OC, baton, tazer, etc.

That is why I called backup. I was afraid what was going to happen if I called the cops at that moment with the guy being so beligerent on not calling the cops. I have lots of training in dealing with situations with possible armed subjects. The person I called used to be a cop so he had much more experience then I. I did not make the decision to send him on his way after all, it was the other secuirity officer who said that they would take him home. Looking back I probably should have called the cops but the guy seemed to understand when I initially called dispatch to call the police (using codes too). It was not black and white, I was afraid that if I left he might kill himself right there. If the police would have shown up and he had a gun then we may have had a lethal force situation.

We wear Bullet resistant vests and other safety equipment so we are not totally exposed. I have been in situations in which I have left and called the polce and let them deal with it. I understand that when I have the oppertunity to go through the academy that I will get much more training on these situations. Until then my main goal is to be safe and like peace officers say go home at the end of the night...

Thanks Again

[darrell]

To make a long story short backup arrived, one being a former police officer looking for a job locally and another individual. They were both in the formal blue uniforms (I was in my white bike officer uniform) and right away the subject started cussing and throwing a fit. I told them to stay in the crown vics while I calmed the guy down. I reassured them that these were not police and they both got out. After a little more reassurance that they were not cops we were able to get him to go home. We found out that he just had a fight and he was not sober. Eventually I put my bike in the back of one of the crown vics and was able to take the guy home (after a through weapons search).

Major no no my son. Never tell the others to go back and stay in the car. Had this guy started a struggle he would have whipped your *** and it would have taken b/u a few seconds to get to you by then your dead and your baton, spray and taser are gone. Never approach a EPD person w/o back up ever. They go go plum loco on you in a hartbeat.

[andytelford]

I don't think dc could have said this any better.

[my58vw]

Oh yes I have mulled over it for sometime. We all do stuff that we could have changed when we are rookies in a field. Even some of the senior officers messed up. I now relize that department policy is to call the police and back off. Of course I would not have known that because it was never communicated and not written down. We all learned something from this me and all the other officers. I relize what could have happened with no backup. That is why backup is so important. One thing I did do is put distance between myself and the others during the incident so if he was violent I could get away, stuff that I learned in police officer bike training that I went through.

Safety in numbers is the key.

One good thing that I learn in situations like this is why training is important. I also gain experiences that will help me in things like the oral interview. It will also make me better at my job now. I have been through lots of training with various agencies but what they teach you is sometimes different then what you see out there in the field. That is the value of FTOs in this context.

Thanks All...

[corporal716]

Once they say the feel like hurting them selves its time to call someone who can get them help. I have had two people attempt suicide in my presence and have responded numerous times after they have attempted it or completed it. :( It's not something you want to see. People in that state need immediate professional help. How do you know he wasn't going to kill him self or his family once you brought him home? That is why they hold them for 72 hrs. in Ca.

Its just not a chanse you want to take.

[acreature]

He seemed stable at that point. I do not know what offed means.

I did not put up this thread to have it tore down. I do not have the training of a LEO in cases like this so some pointers would be nice, not as tear down.

Thanks

Didn't come close to attempting to tear your post down. Just gave my answer to your, "What you would have done as Police" ;)

Though, I can start tearing, if you wish :D

[Deputy757]

It was not black and white, I was afraid that if I left he might kill himself right there. If the police would have shown up and he had a gun then we may have had a lethal force situation.

Better he kill himself than you..which DC has said plenty about and all of it right on the money. Oh, and police are reportedly capable of dealing with lethal force situations. I know, you didn't ask for sarcasm..but that's just me! Finally, as to your actual question...I would have done an Emergency Detention based on his self harm comment, and once the eval was done (assuming he was released) lodged him in the county jail for the outstanding warrant.

[michiganstud]

How do the officers react to you now? I mean I bet the officers were a bit upset at you telling them that you can do their job. I for one would not have stayed in my patrol car while an unarmed security officer handled a suicidal subject!!!


Major liability!!!!

[darrell]

How do the officers react to you now? I mean I bet the officers were a bit upset at you telling them that you can do their job. I for one would not have stayed in my patrol car while an unarmed security officer handled a suicidal subject!!!


Major liability!!!!

Ditto and I deal with the Mentals on a daily basis. Especially when I come on here with stud and DC :D. Our town has quite the EDP population, and having a psych ward don't help things much. The severity of their problems vary from one person to the next depending on the person. Mental people can be very hard to read most of the time, meaning you know will know when they will lose it and just spaz the hell out. That is why you never get to close unless you are going to physically arrest the person for one thing or the other. Last summer we had a mental steal one of our US Flags on campus and then he decided to hold up inside a hotel room on the main drag of town. He busted down the door of the room, and beat the guy up that was in there and kicked him out. When the city arrived he ended up beating up both officers hurting one of them pretty bad. When the other units got there he was bloody from breaking the mirror, and the window tryign to cut his writs. A deputy shot him 3 times with the tazer and the guy acted like he didn't even get tased with it. Then ended up shooting him, hitting him in the right shoulder and arm taking him down. When he got shot he cowarded up into the fetal posisition and cried for Mommy like a baby. Then the took him to ER then to 3 West or the psych ward at the hospital.

Never get to close to them at any time unless you want to tussle with them. Also don't out right lie to them, they are not stuipid by any means and will remember you lying to them. Poking fun of them when they can see and hear you is another thing that will set them off. Just try to be their friend and try to make them think your going to help them. If you have to stretch the truth to get them to be nice and not get violent try to do it suttlely and not blantently.

Thats the best thing I can tell you.

NEVER TELL YOUR B/U TO GO AWAY. You will end up in a world of **** real quick like.

NEVER GET CLOSE ENOUGH THAT THEY CAN GRAB YOU OR YOUR WEAPONS. They will do so and will use them on you and other people.

From a security stand point thats my take and stance on that.

Don't get mad but if you were my guard and you told b/u to do what you did you would be written up if not fired. I don't pay insurance for someone to get to close to something they shouldn't have been directly involved with and also to refuse assistance from back up.