Your PD's use of firearms policy against vehicles?

[imalazypup]

One of the guidelines in Detroit's revised use of force policy concerns me. "22. The firearm policy shall prohibit firing at or from a moving vehicle."

Basically, if someone is trying to ram their car into an officer or someone else, they cannot shoot? I don't like that!

What is your department's policy?

[gdowkpc]

It's getting that way. We are supposed to understand that shooting at a vehicle is generally ineffective and spend more of our effort getting out of the way. We are not to shoot at a vehicle unless there is no other alternative (dunno, like your foot got stuck in a manhole cover?)

[phantasm]

NYPD you cannot shoot at a vehicle unless the driver or passengers are shooting at you. NYPD is a lot stricter than other jurisdictions on the use of force.

[CTDL92]

PA State Police:


Officers shall not discharge a firearm at or from a moving vehicle.

The exception are as a last resort when the subjects use of the vehicle or other means poses an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury to the officer, another officer, or another person.

Or as a last resort to prevent the escape of a fleeing felon when the use of deadly force is otherwise justified


And only after considering:

-The difficulty of hitting a moving target.

-Striking bystanders with ricocheting bullets.

-Population densities.

-The inability to stop a vehicle’s momentum even when the target actor is hit, and the damage or injury which might result from causing a vehicle to go out of control.

[Babysmamadrama]

Ours is no shooting at the vehicle.

In St. Louis City PD, they fired two coppers recently because they fired on a vehicle after the driver rammed two patrols and drove towards one of the officers. The driver had been wanted because during a traffic stop he became belligerent, got maced, then returned to his car and hit an officer driving away. An alert was put out with an officer down call.
The two now fired officers saw the vehicle, boxed it in, and the driver rammed them to get away pushing one of the patrol vehicles toward the officer. They fired a combined total of 28 times and hit the guy twice, minorly wounding him. He later gave up at a municipal police station of a city he used to be employed by.

The officers were fired for allegedly violating the departments rule on firing on vehicles. The real reason, everyone here feels anyway, is that were sacrificed to appease the local black clergy and populace because the driver had his kids in the car. All the officers involved made statements they did not see or know there were kids in the car, which was later corroborated by the driver who had shoved his kids down in the back seat.

The argument goes that you are not going to stop a 3000 lb. vehicle with bullets, which is true, but I am not shooting at the vehicle, I am shooting a the soft, fleshy thing inside that I know will stop when he bleeds out. If you don't use the threat of deadly force against someone who will use a car to run you over, you just encourage people to run. It's not so much a matter of stopping the car per se, as it is making sure the driver does not escape. Just my opinion. I don't like letting anyone get away, this just emboldens them and creates the illusion in their mind the police are impotent and weak-willed.

St. Louis City can't pursue anyone for anything other than a violent felony anymore, so all the car thieves come to the county steal cars and drive around in the city with impunity.

Our departments policy is the same, so if I jump a stolen, all I can do is pursue to my city limits and wave goodbye. Some other nearby departments will chase until the wheels fall off.

[goldstargirl]

One of the guidelines in Detroit's revised use of force policy concerns me. "22. The firearm policy shall prohibit firing at or from a moving vehicle."

Basically, if someone is trying to ram their car into an officer or someone else, they cannot shoot? I don't like that!

What is your department's policy?

My department policy says we shall not fire at a fleeing vehicle, nor shall we shoot from a moving...But if the bastard is coming at us, all bets are off. But good luck penitrating the windshield before he hits ya. lol

[mcsap]

Our policy is almost identical as PSP's.

[Citicop]

My agency has the same provision in our use of force policy. However, later in the policy there is an exception for "extreme circumstances" when otherwise unapproved tactics would be allowed.

Unless the setting is very rural, the potential for collateral damage (and civil liability) when officers shoot at (or from) a moving vehicle is just too great under most circumstances. Even so, I am glad that we have the exception written into our policy.

And remember, if someone is trying to run you down with a motor vehicle, and you believe that the only way to stop them is to shoot them, you may face disciplinary action from the department if that action violates department policy. But also remember that dead officers don't get disciplined.

Citicop.

[P01IC3M4N]

we cannot shoot at a moving vehicle unless deadly force would be justified as per state law. if they shoot at me, i can shoot back.

i've had several people try and hit me and one successfully did $3000 worth of damage to my car. even then i didn't see that it would do me any good to whip out the gat and go to work. it's best to try and get out of the way if you can. once they hit you, put it in gear and ram them into something solid. if the damage is already done, might as well stop it from going any further.

i have a couple good in-car videos of a few people trying to ram me. unfortunately, the one i got hit in was before many agencies had cameras.