Medic Bag

[Toeknee112]

Seriously, I've had paramedics tell me they carry Maxi Pads because of their absorbency...

[ngcsubutterbar]

which is exactly why they use tampons in wrestling to stop nosebleeds toek

[Toeknee112]

THAT'S why wrestlers sometimes have that little rip cord hanging out of their nose!

[Sgt. Pepper]

If you can get a hold of some, get some TraumaDex. The stuff is awesome for the real bleeders you may come across.

that is some awsome stuff works incrediably well. Cobra my question for you is what kind of emergencies do you expect? that is how you plan your bag. My personal bag is stocked for myself and a medic, because i live in a rural locaction and commute to work but my neighbor is a medic, who also has a kit. We plan to treat at our level and stuff for the ems crew that arrives.

[corporal716]

Seriously, I've had paramedics tell me they carry Maxi Pads because of their absorbency...

I saw a Doctor use them once in the jail before transporting to the hospital. They work.

[paramoron]

Seriously, I've had paramedics tell me they carry Maxi Pads because of their absorbency...

The only reason we used to carry them in NY was because the State Department of Health required "six sanitary napkins" stocked in our equipment in order to have our vehicle certified as an ambulance. Once in a while when a female bystander needed a pad when she was away from home, we'd give one out, but we never ever used them to control bleeding in a trauma situation.

The whole point of hemmorhage management in EMS is to control the bleeding by allowing the body to clot itself. Every bit of EMS training I have ever received over the past 11 years or so in the area of bleeding tells you to let the sterile dressing bleed through, and then cover it with more dressings. If you used a maxipad, I think it would soak through the absorbent stuff and then spill out the wings.

At the BLS level, the most appropriate thing to do is what you're trained in basic first aid courses - Direct Pressure, Elevate, Sterile Dressing, Pressure Dressing, etc. People who aren't trained in the use of that "Traumadex" **** should not be using it.

In one of the regions I used to work in as a paramedic, there was a pilot program using the "Traumadex" stuff with one of the agencies and everyone who used it hated it. Like anything else, the kiddies that are new to this will love flashy lights and sirens and any cool new toys to try and play with. The bottom line is that sticking to the basics will get you a long way. Don't waste your money on new toys.

That said, the only thing I'd add to my earlier list (which someone else here mentioned) is a few instant cold packs for things like bee stings, nosebleeds and joint injuries. You really don't need anything else for immediate patient care, which is all you'd be providing since any time you encounter a patient, the ambulance is presumably already on the way (or about to be dispatched).

[Switchback]

...In one of the regions I used to work in as a paramedic, there was a pilot program using the "Traumadex" stuff with one of the agencies and everyone who used it hated it. Like anything else, the kiddies that are new to this will love flashy lights and sirens and any cool new toys to try and play with....

That's funny, the kiddies I spoke with from the SF love the TraumaDex and QuikClot. The SWAT medics with whom I routinely train (to include those on my local team (SRT), national team (SOG, which has docs and CTLS certified EMTs and several departments/agencies that we train with) all seem to love it. The only complaint I have seen is the heat generated from the powder. THen again, when you have arterial bleeeding, will you really worry about the burn?

[paramoron]

That's funny, the kiddies I spoke with from the SF love the TraumaDex and QuikClot. The SWAT medics with whom I routinely train (to include those on my local team (SRT), national team (SOG, which has docs and CTLS certified EMTs and several departments/agencies that we train with) all seem to love it. The only complaint I have seen is the heat generated from the powder. THen again, when you have arterial bleeeding, will you really worry about the burn?

It's entirely possible that, for people in those situations, the traumadex is an ideal alternative - it's lightweight for use in a bag and will clot superficial bleeding quickly. It's an uncontrolled high-risk environment where the person giving treatment doesn't have time to give a full assessment or wrap roller gauze around a bunch of 4x4s.

However, the application he asked about in his medic bag is for treating bystanders, not for use as a "tactical medic" in a SWAT situation. I am neither a "SWAT medic" nor do I wish to become one. In my 7 years of experience as an EMT followed by 4 years as a paramedic in a variety of settings from very urban to very rural systems, however,

I never said that I used the powder stuff. However, I spoke with (and worked with) several experienced paramedics known to me personally whose judgment I trust and whose opinion I place great faith in. For use in an ambulance/patient treatment setting, they found it to be harder to use and messier than just treating patients traditionally. From what I've read and heard about the powder, it works fine for what it's supposed to do (situations where you don't have time to properly dress a wound), but isn't suitable for untrained first aiders, or providers at the BLS level who don't have a good reason for using it.

The problem there is that untrained BLS providers will rely on just shooting the powder into wounds instead of assessing the nature and severity of the bleeding. Until (and unless) it gets approved as the standard of care for bystanders and basic life support providers, I would shy away from even having it as a private individual unaffiliated with an ALS agency.

[Switchback]

Well, I would first say that no one that I know is give TraumaDex or QuickClot without training. That being said, I think their strength shines in 2 situations. First, as you pointed out, they are great in volatile situations, and second, they really shine in the absence of well-trained, well-equipped personnel as yourself.


One more thing, paramoron, I didn't notice that you clarified which situations TaumaDex/QuickCLot are more appropriate, I thought you said, "... everyone that used it hated it."


FYI, I was a medic (EMT certified a lifetime ago) in the army and then a medic on my SRT until we were able to get tactically trained paramedics on board. I don't claim to know a whole lot, only enough to get by in a pinch, in the absence of better-trained personnel. ALso, on SOG (mentioned above) we often do very rural ops and the docs do not come into operational areas. They tend to stay in safe zones.

[Cobra]

And just f-in great, I get home from my baseball game and my dog tore up ALL the gauze pads. Anyone want a dog? Cause mine is either going to someone or shot. Damn thing tears up everything.

[ngcsubutterbar]

awwww. Is it still a puppy, or just a breed that like to chew on things. There are many ways to get it trained to chew on it's toys and not yours but I'd advise asking a k9 handler for individual advice.


I do agree about being trained to use the stuff. I was trained in it, but it was more along the lines of war wounds and crap, and probably not much you'd find being an explorer.

[Cobra]

Its 4 years old, Damn Beagles. ALL my gauze sponges (like 40 of them).

Oh believe me, i'm in the process of being trained for all this.

[paramoron]

Well, I would first say that no one that I know is give TraumaDex or QuickClot without training. That being said, I think their strength shines in 2 situations. First, as you pointed out, they are great in volatile situations, and second, they really shine in the absence of well-trained, well-equipped personnel as yourself.

One more thing, paramoron, I didn't notice that you clarified which situations TaumaDex/QuickCLot are more appropriate, I thought you said, "... everyone that used it hated it."

I certainly didn't mean to say that your guys don't have training - I don't want to start any flame wars No offense intended, I haven't taken any.

In our role as street paramedics, I was just trying to say that when I have the patient on a stretcher with a wall of equipment like gauze, trauma dressings, oxygen, IV fluids, etc. at my fingertips, (hopefully while already rolling toward the hospital at a high rate of speed) there's no benefit to the patient for me to use the powder stuff instead of the cheaper, tried-and-true gauze.

I should have been more specific in my earlier post - the agency I was referring to that used the Traumadex was an ALS-first response paramedic agency, not a tactical paramedic operation or other "tactical hot zone" personnel. The physicians who provided medical oversight on our regional protocols approved it for use with one agency as a pilot under certain circumstances to evaluate its use in the field. I left the area before the study was finished, but I had heard that the end result was basically that it worked well in an EMS (non-tactical) setting, but was much more expensive and required more training than gauze and 4x4s. The bottom line was that using the powder instead of "traditional" bleeding control for the patient gave no benefit to the patient.

Cobra: unless you know that your local EMS system uses the stuff as part of its normal equipment and it's approved by the local physicians who oversee EMS as something a bystander could use, I would recommend against carrying it in your bag. You're not going to encounter the kind of situations at public event standbys, etc., that Switchback has brought up where its use is ideal.

The powder is specifically targeted at EMS systems, not individuals. If it turns out that it's something that the EMS docs in your area don't want bystanders to have and you go and use it, you could be charged with practicing medicine without a license, or worse, possession of a controlled (prescription) substance. It all depends on what the laws and protocols in your region, and I honestly don't know what those are so I can't advise you on them. Speaking from experience, paramedics who show up at EMS calls where some bystander has put some bizarre treatment in place outside of their scope of training will just look at you funny and tell all their buddies at work about the moron who did (whatever) at the call this afternoon before they got there.

More importantly, if you go to the webpage at traumadex.com and click on the "request a free sample" link, it tells you right at the top:

TraumaDEX is a medical device for professional use only.
No personal requests will be accepted.

And most importantly, it's much much cheaper to replace gauze when your dog eats through your bag ;)

[Cobra]

And most importantly, it's much much cheaper to replace gauze when your dog eats through your bag ;)

*shakes fist and grumbles*

;)

[Switchback]

LOL

Yeah, I would certainly not condone personally purchasing this.

We have it issued on our SRT. We also have it issued in all our medic bags in each vehicle of our task force (~50 medical bags).

paramoron, you need to check out some of the vids on the manufacurer sites! Some good stuff. I imagine they are still on there. If not, I may be able to track some down.