Firearms in vehicles.

[Jynkxxie]

Don't believe everything a county employee, firearms instructor and/or other people TELL you - they are often wrong/not completely correct.

Best bet: look up the code/statute/law yourself to be 100% sure.

O.k. but what you posted was kind of confusing...

If I don't have a CCW and I need to transport my pistol are you saying that it is illegal to do so? If I move to lets say Washtenaw and I live in St. Clair am I just supposed to leave the gun there? Should I practice in my back yard because I cannot transport it to the range? I am not being a smartass or anything it is just that, if the county lied to me...then why even buy a pistol that you can never transport? How am I supposed to get it home from the store I bought it from?

O.k. nevermind..I see that I was right all along...LOL My instructors did not lie to me.

[txinvestigator1]

Don't believe everything a county employee, firearms instructor and/or other people TELL you - they are often wrong/not completely correct.


Best bet: look up the code/statute/law yourself to be 100% sure.

I was thinking the same thing. I am a firearms instructor, and I do my best to keep abreast of changing laws. Students sometime want to argue (usually politely) about laws, usually quoting some other instructor/cop/person. They have NEVER looked the law up personally, and have never had the text of the law presented to them.

I always smile and provide them with a copy of the applicable statute after the next break.

I hear a lot of "well they told us".............

[Jynkxxie]

O.k. so I guess after hearing this...I will throw out everything that my NRA Certified, CCW Board Recognized CCW/Firearms Instructor and the cop that was with him gave us in our 5 hour long lecture on Michigan Firearms Law? Is that not his job? Cuz if it wasn't I want a damn refund...5 hours is a lot of time!

[txinvestigator1]

O.k. so I guess after hearing this...I will throw out everything that my NRA Certified, CCW Board Recognized CCW/Firearms Instructor and the cop that was with him who gave us in our 5 hour long lecture on Michigan Firearms Law? Is that not his job? Cuz if it wasn't I want a damn refund...5 hours is a lot of time!

No little grasshopper. ;) When receiving instruction it is best to use common sense, and reinforce that lecture with written reference material.

Where I teach, no written material was provided to the students before I taught there. I make copies of all laws I speak of and provide them to the students.

[Jynkxxie]

No little grasshopper. ;) When receiving instruction it is best to use common sense, and reinforce that lecture with written reference material.

Where I teach, no written material was provided to the students before I taught there. I make copies of all laws I speak of and provide them to the students.

Yeah they did that too...and they packaged it in a nice little binder for me. ;) Our legislature website...has this section strictly for this stuff...so it is easy to go look up updates as well. Kinda nice. Seeing as how I suck at looking up the law, and their cute little googles are like useless!

[Scruit]

If you don't have one of the new Ohio CCWs then transporting a firearm in a vehicle must be done;

- Unloaded
- In the trunk, or other location that requires the driver to exit the vehicle to reach
- In a vehicle with no trunk, in the rearmost of the passegner compartment in a locked hard case (ie out of the reach of the driver)
- Or in a soft case, with action broken if possible (ie for double-barreled shotguns)
- or in plain sight, ie gun rack.


Any further safety measures you undertake can really speak to your intent. ie with the ammo locked in the glovebox and the gun having it's action open and with a trigger lock or cable-lock through the action, AND in a locked case in the trunk... I would have trouble believeing that any reaonable officer would consider that to be concealed carry in this state. ;)

As with all things, the closer you get to the borderline between legal and illegal, the more likey you are to fall into that grey area of suspicion that could ultimately result in your answering to a judge. ie if I have a trunk but I carry the shotgun in a hard case on my back seat, unloaded but with ammo in the same hard case... It would only be a matter of about 10 seconds for me to reach acorss, pop open the case, load up and start blasting... Whether or not this method of transporting the shotgun is in compliance with the wording or spirit of the statue, or what my intentions will ultmately be interpreted as being, could easily wind up being decided by a judge. That's not a good place to be.

[Scruit]

Also... The officer's interprettion of you intent goes a long way. One of the factors on the 'Hamilton County Lawsuit' in ohio (where a person charged with concealed carry sued to overturn the concealed-carry ban beased upon a conflict with the ohio constitution) was that the laws on carrying a gun in the car were being applied inconsistently.

For exmaple, there were cases metioned in which an offier would pull over a car out in the country and the driver would have a loaded rifle on the seat next to them, on in the gun rack etc. This is illegal. However the driver would convince the officer that he was out shooting groundhogs etc, and show that he was ware and in-compliance with other rules such as not firing on/over a roadway etc. The driver may be let go without charge (and an admonishment to carry the weapon in compliance with the law) or may be charged with CCW which will probably result in jail time. It's all about the officer's interpretaion of their intent. A 60-yo Good-ol'-Boy farmer is almost guaranteed to be let go, whereas a 20-yo black kid almost guaranteed a cruiser ride.

Part of the new CCW legislation is a firming up of the laws for non-CCW holders.

[Scoop]

O.k. but what you posted was kind of confusing...

If I don't have a CCW and I need to transport my pistol are you saying that it is illegal to do so? If I move to lets say Washtenaw and I live in St. Clair am I just supposed to leave the gun there? Should I practice in my back yard because I cannot transport it to the range? I am not being a smartass or anything it is just that, if the county lied to me...then why even buy a pistol that you can never transport? How am I supposed to get it home from the store I bought it from?

No, that's NOT what I said.

What part of "pistol must be unloaded AND ammo separate from gun AND gun locked in a case AND in the trunk (or in accessible if you have no trunk) AND you're transporting it for a lawful purpose (not just riding around with it in the car)" did you NOT understand?

I said that the statute that you were citing did NOT apply to pistols. It applied to other firearms (see the MCL for description) BESIDES pistols -- BECAUSE pistols have stricter rules regarding transport, which are covered under a DIFFERENT section of MI law.

Example:

An unloaded shotgun CAN be carried in a car if ONE of the four criteria is met (e.g., must be "taken down" OR "enclosed in a case" OR "carried in the truck of the vehicle" OR "inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle").

However, a pistol is subject to MORE than just ONE of the four -- the pistol must be unloaded AND ammo separate from gun AND gun locked in a case AND in the trunk (or in accessible if you have no trunk) AND you're transporting it for a lawful purpose (not just riding around with it in the car).

O.k. nevermind..I see that I was right all along...LOL My instructors did not lie to me.

I never said anybody LIED to you. But if you think that, just because someone is a certified instructor or a sworn police officer that s/he can not/will not/is not subject to making mistakes or having the wrong information, you're very, very foolish.

[Scoop]

Yeah that is a little sketchy, but from what I remember the county instructing me to do when I picked the gun that I bought up (before I had my CCW), was to always carry ammo and gun separate in locked containers when I was traveling with it. Not that I could not have the gun ever in my car, which is what my instructor last night tried to explain to us. If I could never have the gun in my car how am I supposed to practice with it? Or what if I move, ya know?

You misread the statutes and my post. What I was saying was backing up what you were saying (that you CAN transport your pistol without a CPL/CCW) -- but I was also explaining the difference between the statutes that were applicable to rifles/shotguns and to pistols.

Yes, you CAN transport your pistol. The law gives a non-CCW holder the ability to transport his/her pistol under lawful purposes (which are specifically spelled out in the statute) and so long as s/he is abiding by certain criteria (which are also specifically outlined in the statute).

Sounds like a comprehension problem to me.

[Jynkxxie]

You misread the statutes and my post. What I was saying was backing up what you were saying (that you CAN transport your pistol without a CPL/CCW) -- but I was also explaining the difference between the statutes that were applicable to rifles/shotguns and to pistols.

Yes, you CAN transport your pistol. The law gives a non-CCW holder the ability to transport his/her pistol under lawful purposes (which are specifically spelled out in the statute) and so long as s/he is abiding by certain criteria (which are also specifically outlined in the statute).

Sounds like a comprehension problem to me.

Thanks...that was totally neceassary.

[darrell]

Actually Jynkxxie is correct in what she has mentioned above and all. I even called the State Police and they verified what she has said.

[Scoop]

Actually Jynkxxie is correct in what she has mentioned above and all. I even called the State Police and they verified what she has said.

Who are you implying is disagreeing with Jynkxxie? I've been agreeing ...