road rage/sorting out fights questions

[myke]

How do cops determine who goes to jail or is charged with assault when a fight breaks out. I know there can be many determining factors as to how it all got started. But lets say the average exchange of words over something stupid then someone throws a punch or tried to inflict injury. Is it generally the guy who strikes first?

Ive have also heard that it is better not to defend yourself, which doesnt seem like a good idea to me or the average human being. Who wants to risk getting seriously hurt? But then again the legal reprecussions could hurt just as bad I guess.

I have seen on cops and witnessed a few other times both parties go to jail over a fight. I witnesed 2 girls get out of there cars in the middle of an intersection and start fighting a few weeks ago. They left before the cops came but I was wondering how that would be solved? Would it be the girl who got out of her car first? Both of them because they both got out? What if girl number 2 didnt get out of the car but blasted the other female with pepper spray then called the police when she approached the car to assault her???

Im sure this is a normal occurence for LEO's nowadays with all the road rage scenarios. Im just trying to understand how the whole thing is settled.

[brownman40]

I'm a civilian, but I think the answer would come down to common sense. It's not illegal to step out of your car (in respect to assault charges). Agreed? Also, to hit anybody not out of self-defense is illegal. As far as the two women that left the scene, a cop most likely would not chase such a futile case unless one of them filed a complaint.

[sbrad]

It all depends on a few factors. For instance, if it's a couple of drunk guys in a parking lot pounding each other, I'll usually charge both of them with affray and maybe disorderly conduct. I've had a situation where it was two brothers outside a hospital fighting because their father was in ICU and about to die. They weren't mad at each other so much, but all their life that's how they coped with their problems with each other. Since neither wanted to press charges, I split them up and sent them on their way. Then there are times you get to a fight and there's an obvious loser...like the guy laying on the ground unconscience. That one's pretty easy to solve.

[Scruit]

I'll have to do more digging, but I have heard that in this city if you get out of your car in a traffic altercation that does not involved an actual accident, then you will be seen as the agressor, or at least party to the agression. If the other guy subsequently gets out and thumps you then they won't automatically consider you the innocent victim.

There are few fistfights out there where one person is a 100% victim. There's usually some mutual mouthing-off that starts it. In that case I would consider them both as guilty as each other. Come on, we're all adults here and we are smart and mature enough to solve our problems without resorting to violence? (HAH! I wish).

LEOs - What would you do if you saw two cars involved in a near-miss and then one drivers gets out and starts approaching the other driver? Of course you're not gonna sit there and watch him commit a crime wihtout you doing anything... (pass the popcorn, rookie, this could get interesting!) Would you step in and advise the drive to leave, (potentially cite him for disorderly conduct or similar charge if he refuses to leave) or do have the option to cite him based solely upon him leving he vehicle and approaching the other driver (which is, an obviously aggresive and threatening act)...




The only time I got out of the car in a road rage incident was because it happened rihgt outside my place of work. Someone wanted to merge in front of me and I didn't let them in. She got in behind me and lay on the horn before she finally realised that I stopped in a parking space outside my office. Then she drove to the far end of the lot and got out and started pointing at me and shaking her head. So I started walking towards her so that we could discuss it politely - I was actually going to apoligise to her because maybe I could have let her in, but it would have required more effort on my part than I was willing to expend. But then she started jogging away and yelling "Don't you bring that road rage on me!"

So I went into my office and printed up a note saying; "I was coming over to apologise for not letting you in. And to explain that I accelerated because the car in front of me did the same, not beacuse I was trying to block you. Also, I coud not see you turn signal because the rear turn signal of your car was behind hy head and your front signal is not visible from the side. If you want to discuss, then my email is (new_email@freeemailservice.com)"

She sent me back an email also apologising. And we were done. That was my road-rage story... Boring, huh?

(Don't let me hijack the thread... sorry!)

[K9 Police]

In domestic abuse situations if there has been a physical altercation usually there is a determination of who the aggressor is. S/he then is arrested and brought to jail under the domestic abuse laws.

In regards to a regular fight, there are usually always two sides of the story. Even witnesses don't see the same thing everytime. For me, if two are involved in a fight and there is enough probable cause to arrest both since we don't know who the aggressor is, arrest both. That happens more often than not. However, there are certain times when some drunk beats the crap out of someone for no reason and obviously he gets the bracelets.

A more senior officer always told me that if anyone gets out of their vehicle to confront another over a traffic incident in a threatening manner to arrest for disorderly conduct. I tend to go with that philosophy and if any more charges can be brought up, go ahead and do it.

Remember, there are a couple ways of arresting people. Everyone knows the way shown on television with the whole handcuffs, then reading the rights (which rarely happens right away), putting in the back of the squad car, and then going to jail. However, probably a more common occurrence is sending down warrant recommendation charges to the district attorneys office for a subject. Many times it is impossible to locate the suspect so the case can be cleared by arrest by sending down charges and waiting for suspect to be picked up on the warrant. So in your road rage case, if someone could ID the two by some chance then you could send down charges.

Every situation is different. That is why common sense goes a long way in this job.

K9

[P01IC3M4N]

if you get into a fight as a result of road rage, i don't give two s**ts about the story coming from anyone invovled. you all get a ride period. road rage is ridiculous and i have absolutely 0 compassion for anyone involved.

so to answer your question, i really don't care what the excuse is. you shouldn't have stopped or got involved.

[Joeyd6]

If one person is really bad....the other is going in as the primary agressor. If both are hurt and both say they hit each other....it dos not matter who hit who first. They both get arrested....we call it cross complaintants. They alwys start pointing teh finger at each other. I tell them to tell the judge...they can sort it out.....I just enforce whats on paper and fighting is one of those things.

if this is over road rage and no punches are thrown...the one who gets out and appeasr the most verbal/aggressive is getting a discon summones...plus whatever else I can find to tack on.

[myke]

I know the cops would not try to chase the girls in the car. I was just wondering how he would sort that one out if they did arrive on the scene.

If both are out of there cars? theyre both guilty? Most of the time these things happen in traffic so your not driving off anywhere. Thats the reason they get out of there car in the first place because they know they got you.

So its better to stay in your car and get assaulted? (unless you have your doors locked and windows up which most people dont)

so almost in every situation both are going to get to ride in the car then let the judge figure it out. How is the judge going to sort it out if they are both pointing the finger at each other? I know that is the miracle of the court system but it seems like more hassle than it is worth.

Also just because one person has more injuries than the other doesnt mean he is the victim. He could have been the agrressor.

[scootsmo]

If a person swings at you, you have every right to defend yourself. But on the other hand, what good will it do if you are involved in a road rage incident and he gets out and then you do? The best advice I could give is to suck it up and keep driving. Getting out of your car is just begging for problems.

[bhanson]

Wer had ordinances against "fighting in public" or engaging in a fight. We simply arrest everyone and let the Judge sort it out.