Please help... great story also... speeding ticket...

[TJDolz]

Hey everybody-
I've got a real problem. I've gotten a few speeding tickets in the past, nothing wreckless, just 10-20 over on highways, etc.... well, for a job, I realized that I couldn't afford to get anymore tickets or else the company car would be unavailable. Long story short, I stopped speeding. In Illinois, last night, got a speeding ticket. I know everybody says this, but I wasn't speeding, and I have three witnesses stating the same thing. I was in the slow lane of the highway. The police officer was way off in the front of me and "clocked me going 66 in a 45 from 1800 feet away." It was on the laser gun as that as well. However, traffic was heavy. I understand that laser is very precise, but from 1800 feet I know the span on the laser could reach as high as 5 feet. Driving a narrow Jeep Wrangler, being shot from an angle, having no front license place, and not speeding, makes me question how it was me that got nailed. There were cars passing me on the right, cars in front and behind me. And still, I got nabbed. I've never contested a ticket as I have admitted guilt to all others, because I was indeed speeding. This one, no, I wasn't. To top it off, the officer was a total jerk, then flicked a cigarette butt out his window as I walked away from his car (after asking to see the laser reading). I turned around, walked back to his passenger side window, and asked if there was recourse for him littering. He told me to get back in my car, and I asked him if for real there was anything I could do for recourse of him littering. Again, no admission to guilt, just "get back in your car." Yeah, I know, not smart, but it made me mad that I was falsely nabbed for speeding and he could flick a cigarette butt near me.
SO, if you've gotten this far in the thread, thank you. Second, I'm taking him to court because I'm not just giving in to this one. What can I do? I've got angle measurements of his car to my car, the distance, the speed, and 3 witnesses willing to sign an affidavit stating they knew I wasn't speeding. Come on now, please help me. The fine means nothing, the driving record is more important, but even more is not letting this guy nail me for doing NOTHING! HELP! I have the upmost respect for police officers, and people in general. But its guys like this that give police a bad name. I don't use drugs, I have never been arrested, I'm just a normal guy. And I gotta deal with this guy? Come on!
MJD

[dragonspider]

That's all you can do, brother.... go to court. Smarting off to a cop is never a good idea, and I'm glad you see that... The cop may have been an ***, but remember what mom always said... two wrongs don't make a right...

[Chief_Wiggum]

but remember what mom always said... two wrongs don't make a right...

Gee I wish I had your mom. All my mom ever said was, "We rob 3 gas stations and all you haul out is 280 bucks! I shudda drowned you when you was borned! Git me some cigs and go stand watch. Friggin kids, you raise em an feed em and all they get is TWO HUNDRED LOUSY FRIGGIN BUCKS!!"

But, back to the question. Traffic tickets are hard to beat. Your three witnesses won't matter much because the prosecutor will probably be able to convince the judge that they could not have known what your speed was when the officer says he measured it. First they wouldn't have known exactly when he measured it, and unless all three had their eyes glued to your speedometer they couldn't know. Plus if they are friends of yours, the court would probably put less validity on their version.

As to the angle and distance and the error factor in the laser. Don't even try to testify or ask questions on your own. You would need an expert to testify, and a lawyer to question. Most questions you might ask the officer would bring the old "I don't buy em, build em, or maintain em, I just operate em" answer. Remember the judge has heard all this before.

So what do you do, short of paying $$$ for a lawyer who'll take your money and give you a shrug and a grin if he loses it for you? I would plead not guilty. Go to court. See if you can deal with the prosecutor, maybe get a reduction to something with no points. If not, let the officer testify. Then you testify and tell the judge, in a very professional, respectful manner, that you honestly do not believe you were speeding. Tell him about the traffic, the distance, that the others with you don't believe you were speeding. Be honest, truthful, very respectful to the court and the officers position. Tell him you don't have the resources to hire experts and lawyers, but you really believe the officer must have measured someone else.

Don't whine, don't beg. Just be calm, friendly, and respectful to everyone involved. Dress nice, shave. Take your mom with you, better yet your grandmother. Introduce her to the prosecutor. No particular reason, just to make them sort of like you. It's just like politics. Play it right and you win the prize. Call everyone mister, officer, and your honor. Say hello to the baliff. Everyone likes the friendly guy. Watch for the golden opportunities. Sit where the important players can see you, then look for the chance to offer your seat to someone, hopefully to someone elderly.

So why tell someone how to beat a traffic ticket? Well, you admit you were wrong the other times. You say you really don't think you were speeding. So you should have a fighting chance, but it's all up hill. The criminal justice system in this country is for the players of the game. My guess is the officer would rather see a deal done even earlier so he doesn't have to go to court. And, yeah, cops make mistakes, but without experts, your best chance is playing the game.

[Somebody]

A lawyer in a civil case? It is doable, I suppose. Realistically, go in armed with documentation which may show a possibility of error with the device the officer used for speed, the time you were in traffic (in case you can prove the number of vehicles which could have further thrown off the results) and testify (calmly) that the officer even flicked a cigarette butt at you (though I have never heard of officers smoking in patrol cars)

All of this is assuming you are not here to troll, and that the above statement is truthful, of course. I can't judge your sincerity over a message board, afterall =)

Do your research, go to court, and be honest.

[ctrider]

Correct me if i'm wrong but i believe that you cannot get a laser ticket if it is more than 1000 feet away. If it says 1800 feet you probably have a shot in court.

"The officer must identify the target, estimate the speed, confirm the target is within range, listen to the Doppler shift of the radar gun, verify the visual estimation of speed with radar/laser, take and additional radar/laser reading for confirmation if possible, and lock the target vehicle speed or establish a speed tracking history trough lock (NHTSA Training Standards, Understanding Police Traffic Radar & Laser, Langford, Les, 1998, Speed Measurement In Traffic Law Enforcement, Morrison, Kevin, 1995). Further, Judge Reginald Stanton, New Jersey Superior Court, 1998 mandated no laser speed reading past 1,000 feet would be acceptable evidence of speeding due to the laser gun's beam divergence."

[Ghost 1]

Don't know about lazers,but on my radar I've gotten locks out to half a mile on straightaways and never had a problem. Just gives me time to activate my camera to also visually record the car speeding. Never heard of a 1000 ft rule,but then again I don't use a lazer either. :D

[TJDolz]

Excellent, guys and gals. I can assure you that I'm totally sincere on this one. I wouldn't be begging for advice and be willing to lie under oath in a state court house if I wasn't absolutely sure of the situation. Maybe a diagram of the scene? Is there anyway to prove that I saw 1800 on his lazer? Can he deny it was 1800 feet and say it was 800 and no one be the wiser? Also, can I ask for video from the police car as evidence, and if they do not supply it, is that grounds for dismissal? When I approached his car, I saw on his front glass a camera and two ditties that looked like mics, but that was all a glance within a few seconds. I've been looking into this New Jersey Case and I may hit up the law library in my town to dig deeper in it. Also, the quote CTRIDER said will be handy. I'll be bringing that into the court also. I realize its a slim chance, but its just so bothering to me that when I'm actually NOT SPEEDING, I get nailed. Takes some confidence away, really. Anyone familiar with Cook County, IL police procedures? Checked some facts.. the lazer the officer was using LOOKS LIKE a Kustom Pro Lazer II, that being from seeing it for a few seconds and comparing shots on the net. Called LTI about info on the Marksman 20.20 but really don't believe that was the gun. Thanks, again, everyone for some help on this one. You all have my respect. Any other sources for info I could look up? Would it be useful to bring in a diagram of the position of the cruiser, along with the distance he was from the road, corresponding to my vehicle being 1800 feet away, and trigging the angles? Also, any use in trying to dig up evidence of the last calibration to the lazer gun from Cook County? Sorry for all the questions, this is my first time in a court room at all. Likewise, you're right on about not being able to afford an attorney... fresh outta college, entry level job, and 22 is probably not the best age to be putting up a fight against all this, but hey, whataya gonna do? Peace.
MJD

[TJDolz]

Also, can I ask for a trial by jury in a case such as this? If so, what's the normal procedure?

[phuzz01]

I would strongly advise you to listen to Chief Wiggum's advice. The chances are almost NIL that you are going to win a traffic case by arguing the details of his use of laser. I would stay away from what brand he was using, what angle, what distance, jury trial, blah blah blah. Regardless of what the judge in NJ used as a max. distance, your judge is going to have his own standards. Also, since you haven't been in court before, you are going to have a hard time going in there and playing Perry Mason. Your chances are much better to do what CW said, go in there and calmly and respectfully explain to them that you are certain that you weren't speeding, and then throw yourself on the mercy of the court. A judge is going to have more room to work with and more of a desire to offer you lesser charges than a jury will.

[dragonspider]

You'd have to be a damn expert to do this effectively anyhow.... I'm an engineer, and many of my friends are too... I had one buddy who was VERY well informed about this kind of stuff, and still lost in court. The judge doesn't want to see measurements, ratios, maximum accuracy distances, and BS like that.... In the end, no body in that court room is a laser expert, and most don't understand the indept concepts of physics... If you do, you'd be better off keeping your mouth shut, because you're going to come off as a know it all... The only thing you can do is go to court, and fight the ticket... I know in some states, if the officer doesn't show up, the ticket is dismissed.... Cross your fingers and hope he had a long foot chase the night before, and just can't bring himself out of bed for an early court appearance!!

[Scruit]

Is you car thinner/shorter than 5 feet? If he centers on your grille then it there going to be any other vehicle reflecting back at him?

[mrbelvetron]

but remember what mom always said... two wrongs don't make a right...

But two Wongs can make a third one... :D





Stupid joke... oh well.

[corporal716]

[QUOTE=Chief_Wiggum]Gee I wish I had your mom. All my mom ever said was, "We rob 3 gas stations and all you haul out is 280 bucks! I shudda drowned you when you was borned! Git me some cigs and go stand watch. Friggin kids, you raise em an feed em and all they get is TWO HUNDRED LOUSY FRIGGIN BUCKS!!"

LOL :D

[md123]

"I shudda drowned you when you was borned!"

lmao - This guy is a pisser.

[mcsap]

You come to a POLICE site looking for a defense strategy ? Why not go to Planned Parenthood for anti-abortion pamphlests ??!!

Youd don't do your own dental work do you ?

I didn't think so. So don't do your own legal work either.