Strobes on a POV

[soundwave]

OK, I've been wondering about this one for awhile and have been wondering if I am correct or not. If any LEO from AZ could respond to this it would be of great help.

I help out a lot of family and friends (and friends of friends) when they get stuck out on the highway that runs through our town. The particular highway (SR 85) is known throughout the state as "The Devil's Highway" because it seems to have the highest accident and death rate than all other roadways in the entire state. Simply put, it runs about 130 miles almost straight north and south from our state's capitol city (Phoenix) to the Mexican border. A lot of people use the northern-most to hook over to San Diego and everyone else either live in or around my town, or are on their way to Rocky Point, Mexico (think Tijiuana lol).

As far as my state goes, I clearly know that the only visible light from the front of my car can be white, amber or any shade inbetween. For the rear, the only light that can be visible is red, amber or any shade inbetween. What I was thinking of doing is equipping my car with some type of medium-level strobe lighting system (maybe deck lights) with one set for the front windshield in white, and one set in amber for the back. I usually go and help out with changing tires, or fixing whatever went wrong with their vehicle, maybe even help them get a tow truck or ride to the next town (no hitchhikers, just friends, family, etc.).

LE in this area is *very* scarce because it is remote (you'd think that the # of accidents and death would change this, huh? lol) and the only real people that would ideally patrol this stretch is the Dept. of Public Safety (DPS) who we rarely ever seen anyway. Needless to say, it's been that way since the road was laid down and everybody knows it. When I stop with my hazards on people think it's an abandoned vehicle and just whizz by doing around 20+ mph over the limit and don't even slow down. However, when a DPS surveyor in a pickup truck has their little strobe lights on or a LE officer has their strobes on (marked and unmarked cars), they slow down big time.

If I have this correct, I may have the legal ability to put this on my car and use them without a problem. I have bold'ed the part that should apply to me in this case.

Here is what the law says for my state:

ARS 28-947. Special restrictions on lamps...

D. A vehicle may have lamps that may be used to warn the operators of other vehicles of the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring the exercise of unusual care in approaching, overtaking or passing. The vehicle may display these lamps as a warning in addition to any other warning signals required by this article. The lamps used to display the warning to the front shall be mounted at the same level and as widely spaced laterally as practicable and shall display simultaneously flashing white or amber lights or any shade of color between white and amber. The lamps used to display the warning to the rear shall be mounted at the same level and as widely spaced laterally as practicable and shall show simultaneously flashing amber or red lights or any shade of color between amber and red. These warning lights shall be visible from a distance of at least one thousand five hundred feet under normal atmospheric conditions at night.

The strobes I have in mind will only be 15-25 watts and shouldn't have that "dazzling" effect that lightbars or undercover car dash/deck lights should have.

Thanks in advance for the help everybody! =O)

[phuzz01]

First, a couple of points about the statute you quoted, and second my own personal opinion. Law points:

1) The statute you posted said the lights must flash "simultaneously." That means that if you installed any extra lights, they would have to all flash at the same time, therefore no alternating strobe lights.

2) The statute you posted said the lights must be mounted "as widely spaced laterally as practicable." This means that they need to be as far apart as possible, and therefore no arrowstick or centermounted deck lights.

3) I don't have the time to go searching Arizona statutes, but here in Mass., there is a SEPERATE statute that specifically prohibits lights that flash, rotate, or oscillate, with exceptions for the turn signals of course. So despite what that statute says, what you are describing may be prohibited in another statute.

Now, my opinion, and it is worth what you paid for it. :p Mounting strobe lights in your POV is going to get you very little by way of increased safety, and it is going to get you quite a bit by way of increased attention by LEOs. Drunk drivers are known to actually drive TOWARD strobe lights, and if people do slow down, it will mostly be to rubberneck, which is another problem itself. Also, if your insurance company found out that you were mounting emergency lighting in order to assist disabled vehicles, they may try to raise your rates, drop your policy, etc. I would say just continue to use your hazard lights, and you should be fine. If it is so dangerous to stop and help change that tire that you need strobe lights, just don't stop. Use your cellphone and call for assistance from professionals (AAA, towing service, police, etc.).

--Alex

[Menace]

I don't know about you but myself personally, I wouldn't invite the "attention" of flashing "strobes" and if the lights are for your safety and the safety of those you are helping I'd get some source of light that isn't going to draw people in like moths or be confused with the lights of that DPS Surveryor Truck or a LE Officer. But that's just my personal opinion.

[Switchback]

Well said, Phuzz.

The bottom line... BAD IDEA.

[dragonspider]

...or get some roadside emergency gear, such as flares (if they're legal in your state), or those triangle things you set out.... this should help at least a little bit.... The other thing you could think about, and I didn't read your statute in it's entirety, and I think phuzz is probably right in that there are other statues, you might be able to toggle your brake lights to flash in rapid succession, and still be within the law....

[soundwave]

The problem with calling the professionals is that the professionals seem to not want to aide unless there is an accident or the vehicle is *in* the roadway and then only to move it off to the shoulder or call a tow truck (another 2-3 hrs.). Even when they are called LEOs seem to take an extra amount of time to get anywhere. It only takes about 2 hours to drive the entire 200+ miles stretch going the speed limit and they take a minimum of 3 hours regardless of the fact that there is *always* an LEO department within 40 miles of you at any given time. EMTs go from town to town in around 45 minutes flat with their lights on and only slightly exceeding the speed limit. Our town is small and filled with people that have lived here all their lives driving that highway and we all know about the LEOs, too well -- it's the only way in or out of our town.

The way it works down here is that even if you're pretty buzzed from drinking, you slow down when you see flashing lights, especially strobes. We have well publicized laws that give heavy fines for different things that are just oddball enough that everyone gets paranoid because they show them on all TV channels down here all the time (e.g. double fines in construction zones, workers present, slowing down, etc.).

Drunk people rarely make it all the way one way or back it and never due to strobe lights being used by anyone. They hit another car going the other way, kind of "fall off" the side of the road, shoot through a turn and go straight through instead, coyotes/rabbits/snakes/vultures in the road (swerve and miss), or they usually hit a piece of glass, beer bottle, nail, sharp rock, have a blowout and go flying at 75+ mph. Needless to say they don't manage to get through the first 10 miles of any place they're coming from (just ask all of our EMTs), regardless of strobes or otherwise.

The entire road is hilly, windy, turns in many places and is pitch black at night (we're in the middle of a desert). Visibility is usually about 50 feet with your brights on and decreases dramatically if you go near a hill, turn or if the weather starts to get bad or dust rolls around the road. Truthfully speaking, I can completely understand how this road earned its nickname. Every day we have ambulances going one way or another numerous times to go save the lives of people who are usually off the road. The only way you can really survive the stretch to go from one town to the next is if you are devoting all of your attention to the road, otherwise it can be fatal.

As I said in my original post, hazard lights just invite trouble because it's too dark and people are going too fast (speed limit is 65, most go 75+ because of no LEOs) to see you around your car, they always think that you're an abandoned vehicle. You also can't pull your car completely off to the shoulder past the white line on the side of the lane without easily risking your car rolling sideways off the road. I guess you can say that the idea here is that detracting the attention from the vehicles on the side of the road is more dangerous than attracting it. My family's been living here since 1934 driving that highway (as most families in this town) and we have never once heard of anyone hitting a vehicle with strobes, let it be a LEO, EMT or construction worker. It probably goes back to the fact that drunks rarely make it very far (10 miles max) from wherever they started and everybody else gets paranoid when they see them so they slow down.

As far as the law, this part of the Arizona Revised Statutes is the only even remote thing that I can find regarding strobe lights. All the others in the vehicle codes apply to color and placement, or that red and blue is reserved for emergency vehicles. The only other reference to ocillating, rotating, flashing, blinking or whatever lights pertains to windows and the property surrounding buildings that are near a roadway because it distracts drivers.

For them flashing at the same time, I can take care of that. Another problem is that my car is a Ford Taurus and if the marker lights or headlights are on, putting the hazard lights on will alternate my marker lights in the front as done by the manufacturer. If I'm right, I'm pretty sure most Fords will do this when the marker lights or headlights are turned on, even if you turn on your turn signals. Would this be illegal too?

For widely spaced as possible, that would not be a problem either. Couldn't this be taken car of by putting hide-away's in the light casings or something similar? Insurance? My mom's an insurance agent and I have my insurance with her, it's considered an extra safety device because her insurance company seems to think that it's better to be seen than run over because they didn't.

I have seen those red rotating things that are being used by many trucking companies across the country to add to their reflective triangles if they break down. Seen them in use by other people driving company vehicles. I'm not sure what they're called but they use those ultra-bright LEDs, can be run over and not cause a problem. Would it be possible to use these? I wouldn't really like to be responsible because I put flares on the side of the road, someone rolls near them, pops their tires and goes flying off to their death or into another car.

As for grabbing the attention of LEOs, really, I could care less. I usually call the nearest dispatch to wherever they are broken down before I ever even leave the house. I know they're coming ahead of time. I drive the speed limit all the way to where they are, help them out and always have to call the dispatch back to cancel the call because it's taken care of and they're on their way.

But I'd gladly get a ticket for helping a friend or family member by getting them off the side of the road rather than hearing it on the news or by someone else that they got killed by a motorist after calling for professionals who were still 2 hours away.

[99TAC]

:rolleyes:

[phuzz01]

Hey, you gotta do what you gotta do I guess. But how many people on here have to tell you it's a bad idea before you believe them? And, if you were so convinced that doing this was a good idea, why did you waste everyone's time by posting the question in the first place? :confused:

And while I'm on a role asking questions, why is it that every time somebody comes on here asking for advice, they already know what they are going to do before they even post the question, and if anybody advises them otherwise, they just argue? :(

[mcsap]

Call the police in the area in which you live. Tell THEM of your plans for strobes. Ask THEM if THEY have a problem with it.

Whatever happened to the 4 way flashers EVERY car made is equipped with ?

[dragonspider]

Being as close to Mexico as you are, you could probably hire some cheap labor to sit on your trunk with a megaphone, and shout "wew, wew, wew, wew, wew" repeatedly, like a police siren....

[soundwave]

Hey, you gotta do what you gotta do I guess. But how many people on here have to tell you it's a bad idea before you believe them? And, if you were so convinced that doing this was a good idea, why did you waste everyone's time by posting the question in the first place? :confused:

And while I'm on a role asking questions, why is it that every time somebody comes on here asking for advice, they already know what they are going to do before they even post the question, and if anybody advises them otherwise, they just argue? :(

phuzz01, a forum is used to discuss topics, not try to persuade everyone to think one way (we'll leave that to the politicians lol). I was presenting an idea and was asking for comments and suggestions in a very civil manner. If I had made up my mind what I was going to do in the first place then I never would have posted. I am truly not convinced that this is a good idea, as you so blatantly stated as factual, but thank you for your opinion.

I originally posted to present an idea for how to reduce the amount of danger on this particular roadway. Granted, maybe the use of strobe lights is not necessarily as good idea, but it was a start. When you're on a roadway, there aren't really many things that you can do to help increase your safety on the side of the road. Audible and visual warning devices have been the only devices that I have ever heard of to advise other drivers that there is a problem. Lightbars on vehicles including LEO vehicles are used to provide the most warning output available as it can provide a warning to a farther reach than audible devices such as sirens. Moving or blinking lights catch the attention of drivers on a roadway much faster than any other warning devices that are available. Therefore, my idea of using strobe lights for this purpose was not too far stretched.

Please do not automatically preclude me from having the capacity to heed warnings or apply advice. I did not do so to anyone on this forum and would appreciate the same common consideration.

I also thank everyone for their replies so far. However, does anyone have any suggestions for anything else that I could do to acheive a safer condition in such an environment? So far I've only heard that the particular use of strobe lights is a bad idea. I think I got that point from each and every response. lol

dragonspider, I put an idea forth in my last post about these little LED things that are supposed to be safer than flares:

I have seen those red rotating things that are being used by many trucking companies across the country to add to their reflective triangles if they break down. Seen them in use by other people driving company vehicles. I'm not sure what they're called but they use those ultra-bright LEDs, can be run over and not cause a problem. Would it be possible to use these? I wouldn't really like to be responsible because I put flares on the side of the road, someone rolls near them, pops their tires and goes flying off to their death or into another car.

Would these possibly be useful? And mcsap, which LE dept. should I talk to? The stretch of highway that starts in my town is under the jurisdiction of one county's sheriff dept. and DPS, ten miles north of our town on the same highway it switches to another county's sheriff dept. 30 more miles north there's a town PD. Depending on the other 40-60 miles north of that you can choose to go left and be in the jurisdiction of Phoenix PD and DPS, or go right and have a completely different county SD and two city PD's. lol Would it be best to just talk to DPS or anyone (or everyone) with jurisdiction on the highway?

Thanks everybody! =O)

[dragonspider]

I'd probably call the state police agency, whatever that is.... that'll likely cover all jurisdictions.

There is a product called Duraflare (www.pittco.com) that is like a pylon, but lights up brightly, and can be seen for over a mile (so they say)... It can absorb impact by an SUV up to around 35 miles per hour, and continue to function (so they say)....

There is also something called Visi-Flare... Do a web search, and you can find these anywhere.

You could also buy the lightsticks instead of flares.... www.mutualindustries.com... or many other places if you do a web search....

[Switchback]

''' then there is thing called the cheap-a$$ flare that you can get from Walmart that sthat has 2 wires that prop it up for high visibility.

A regular flare of the visiflares are probably your best bet.

I will say that I have to agree with phuzz... you shouldn't ask our opinions unless you really want it. My brother does the same thing... he wants my opinion as long as it is the same as his. :D

[phuzz01]

phuzz01, a forum is used to discuss topics, not try to persuade everyone to think one way (we'll leave that to the politicians lol). I was presenting an idea and was asking for comments and suggestions in a very civil manner. If I had made up my mind what I was going to do in the first place then I never would have posted.

While a forum is used to discuss topics, you did not say "here is this statute about hazard lights, let's discuss it." You asked the forum members whether doing so was legal and for "advice." I pointed out that there were multiple legal and logistical problems with using strobe lights, and the other posters pretty much unanimously agreed with me. In addition to that, you received multiple pieces of advice for staying safe, such as using the manufacturer installed hazard lights and using your cellphone to call for help. You received some of these suggestions from people that have been verified by the site owner as being real LEOs. So, you got exactly what you asked for. Yet still, you chose to argue that their suggestions were somehow not good enough. In the year and a half that I've been a member of this forum, I have noticed that many people ask questions with a certain desired answer in mind, and they will argue until people tell them what they want to hear.

[soundwave]

Yet still, you chose to argue that their suggestions were somehow not good enough. In the year and a half that I've been a member of this forum, I have noticed that many people ask questions with a certain desired answer in mind, and they will argue until people tell them what they want to hear.

Suggestions are things such as the road flares idea that dragonspider had, phuzz01. Opinions are things such as "BAD IDEA". Either way I always accept both. But I am glad to see that some people have established preconceptions and begin to judge others' writing by picking out the parts that they don't like based on those preconceptions.

As for the others responding... I think those flares will do quite nicely. They may be a bit hokey (like the DuraFlare cone-thingy lol), but still, it should do the job. Thanks everybody! =O)