Very serious thread

[Zohar]

Let me start by stating that what I'm asking may be a lot to ask, seeing as it's most certiantly not a trivial issue. I'm hoping I can get some honest LEO opinions, answers, and feelings on the questions I'm about to ask. These questions are in regards to using your gun as an officer (and ultimately either injuring and/or killing someone) and your feelings on what has happened. I don't know from experience, but I can understand that this may be a very "heavy" or traumatic issue, if you don't want to respond please don't. Also, I'm only looking for an answer to these questions by a LEO (military too)who has experienced any or all of them. I hope this post isn't out of line, or against any rules, that is not my intent, I'm very curious as to the emotional effect of these types of incidents. Here goes:

1.) (I'm guessing many will say yes to this one, I could be wrong) Have you ever needed to draw your firearm and threaten (when I say threatened, I mean this in regards to your safety) someone, perhaps a belligerent driver you pulled over or even a crazed lunatic ready to attack you? If so, then what did you feel? How did you handle it afterwards, do you still think about the way you've responded even today?

2.) Have you ever had to discharge your weapon on someone and ended up injuring them (not nescisarrily fatally)? How did you feel after this?

3.) Have you ever been in a position where you had to kill someone in self defense? If so, how did you feel after this and do you still think about this incident even today?

Thanks for answer my questions, I know this may not have been easy to answer. Although I cannot speak for any LEO, I feel it's safe to say that it's never pleasent when an officer must draw a gun, especially if they are forced to use it. I appreciate your feedback, as I'm curious as to how these events may have effected some of you. I sincerely appologize to anyone I may have offended by posting this, it never was my intent and I hope you won't hold it against me.

[oscarmitre]

I'm not trying to be rude but why do you want to know? If it's curiousity that's fine, any of us can choose to answer or not as we see fit. If it's for something else (eg college paper) then that may make some of us more inclined to answer and give you details. Just for the record yes to 1 (but only several times), thankfully no to 2 and 3.

Don't be surprised if you don't get too many responses. Most cops I know don't like talking about this as it looks a suspiciously like empty bragging ("and then I pulled my piece and...") and we hate that. War stories are one thing, talking about this is another.

The nick is Oscarmitre not Roscoe Rules :D

[Zohar]

To be quite honest, I'm considering being a LEO in the future. I'm trying to explore all aspects of the job, including emotional effects of the job (worse case scenarios). I didn't intend for this to be a post where an officer could post his or her bragging rights (if I came off that way, I appologize), I'm just genuinely curious. If you want to PM me instead of answering it in the forum, that's ok too. I was also trying to be careful with my words, I didn't want to offend any of the officers here :D.

[DeputyMadMax]

If I pulled my gun on a "belligerent driver", I think I'd be looking for another job soon after. I think nearly every agency has OC spray, and a lot are getting Tasers now. In a case like you described, you are going to use those options first. If they don't work, you're no longer dealing with just a belligerent driver.

Dodge the answer? Of course. But if you're thinking of becoming a LEO, you should realize it's not all gun play. You will go hands on and use non-lethal tools many many more times than you will draw your side arm in a threat like you've described.

I think if it came to useing deadly force, you would never forget that. It's not something most people will just take lightly. But that's the thing about law enforcement. You may go an entire career and never fire your sidearm in the line of duty (putting down animals aside), or you may shoot someone on your first day.

[imalazypup]

I know you asked for only LEOs to answer, but i thought I'd refer you to some good resources that pertain to your query.

A couple of books you might be Interested...

"Force under Pressure, How cops live and why they die" By Lawarence N. BLum, Ph.D.

"On Killing" forgot authors name.

You'll gain the insight you seem to be searching for.

[Zohar]

Thanks for the response so far =). I wll definately check out those books imalazypup. I know it's very rarely that an officer will get into a situation like I described, I was just interested in how you reacted if you were such a situation.

[Switchback]

I don't do patrol. I am in houses every day, looking for people. Generally, the gun is out at least 1 a day. Not necessarily every day, but a good average. Out of the 4 times it has been out this week, I have beared down on an indiviual only once.

Nope to 2 & 3.

[Seand442]

A few times for #1 and no to 2 and 3. I have a taser now so that gives another option but if they have a weapon.....

[nj50]

i have taken life in self defense, but not in an LEO situation. it was a military operation. lots of similarities. its still a human life on the other side. but when it was him or me, and after 9-11, it didnt feel bad or bother me any. if he didnt shoot, he wouldnt of got shot. thats how i look at it

[Altai]

Hi Zohar,

I understand why you would want the opinions from sworn officers that have been in these situations. Like yourself, I think about the emotional and psychological effects that this line of work can have on a person. Police officers often have to go places most people don't to go, see things people don't want to see, and do things that most people would be affraid of doing. It can be a very fun and rewarding job but it's not always pretty. And I think that's something people have to deal with before commiting to a career in Law Enforcement.

[Bryan]

I have had the misfortune to have encountered your #1 Question on more than one occasion. I can tell you from first hand in two of those situations, the whole world is in slow motion, every second feels like thirty. In those few secs you are deciding your fate and the other guys. Your gun is out, your hands are shaking like a leaf and you start hoping today wont be your last. After everything is clear and good, you stop at the side of the road and puke your guts out from the adreniline.

Your question 2 & 3 thankful I will never have to, I cant imagine having to go though all of the mental anguish.

I will remeber my close encounters for a lifetime and thats more than enough for me.

I was reading in a police journal some time back, that Leos that have had to fire their service weapons, 70 % had thought of the internal investigations that would occur after the fact. They have a name for this now its call "Post Traumatic Ligation" similar to PTS
There is large mental cost for LEOs after the high stress incident as well!!

Sorry for the ramble, gone to get a beer now!!!

[oscarmitre]

Getting back to the thread again. I have not experienced 2 and 3 as I posted before. However I have been involved in providing legal assistance (not from me I am not a lawyer but I used to be a full time police union official) to members who have experienced 2 and 3. Those members I dealt with suffered trauma. Two quit the job straight after the Coroner's inquiry found them innocent of any wrongdoing (one of them wasn't even the shooter, she was a former paramedic who, understandably, went back to that work). Another member who shot and killed a man has been on suicide watch since his breakdown immediately after the incident. That was ten years ago and his life has been totally shattered.

On the other hand I spoke to a colleague in the Rapid City PD in South Dakota a few years ago when I was there (Mt Rushmore visit) and he had shot and killed an offender and was very phlegmatic about it. As he said, it was him or me.

The chances of it happening depend on where you work but for most cops it's an outside chance - for which we are all grateful.

[Switchback]

Contrary to the previous post, serious trauma (even remotely considered long term, that is) is not common to LE involved in shootings. The authors of Street Survival (the book and seminars) have done extensive research in this. I will not lie and say I know their sources, but they have nothing to gain from the statement.

[oscarmitre]

Contrary to the previous post, serious trauma (even remotely considered long term, that is) is not common to LE involved in shootings. The authors of Street Survival (the book and seminars) have done extensive research in this. I will not lie and say I know their sources, but they have nothing to gain from the statement.

I wouldn't want my post to be interpreted as authoritative because it is purely from my own experience and is anecdotal and not the result of research. Besides the sampling error would be horrendous I think it's fair to say that most cops don't get into 2 and 3 (that's becoming quite the euphemism isn't it?) and I am glad to read that research says that trauma is not common.

[Zohar]

I really appreciate the feedback you guys have given me so far, it means a lot to me. I know this isn't the easiest thing to talk about and I thank you very much for going into detail on some cases. I have often thought about this (if I ever become a LEO, which I hopefully will someday) and it was something that weighed heavily on the back of my mind. I wanted to know what to expect, and how you guys reacted to situations like the ones I mentioned in my initial post. Thank you for giving me insight, I really do appreciate it :D.