Really a crime or just administrative fine?

[MikeG]

TSA Cover-up Investigation

In brief, TSA employee carelessly goes through checkpoint with handgun in briefcase (he's not a ticketed passenger, just showing up for work in secure area) and get caught at XRay machine. TSA management short circuits their own procedure and allows him to exit area with firearm. Article makes lots of stupid assumptions (like part of the coverup is not releasing video of security checkpoint while TSA officer is signalling discrete firearm hand signal. Well, duh Investigative Journalist - should be obvious why that video isn't released and why you can't film the checkpoint.)

Procedure violation listed for finding firearm is to notify local airport LE but is this just safety precaution? Not to arrest?

I know of a local LEO that did this and it cost him $5,000 but it wasn't criminal (option was 5k if he waived hearing and admitted it or 10k if he chose admin hearing and lost).

I believe it is felony to attempt to board airplane with a gun, but what about crossing checkpoints and the sterile area? Is it all just civil fines presuming state law isn't violated?

Secondly, for federal employees, is it a violation of workplace rules to bring firearm to work? If he was a post-office worker that accidentally brought gun to work, what happens? It sounds like reprimands were handed out but is that normal?

(BTW, article refers to TSA Special Agents - I presume they are talking about OIG investigators investigating possible crimes committed by TSA employees? Or just confused altogether? )

just curious as I would be pissed if I had to pay fines while trained TSA employee gets a pass. They caught the gun at the checkpoint so that worked. He wasn't a threat so I really don't care if police were called unless the police arrest passengers for the same carelessness. The threat conclusion listed in article seemed a bit over-the-top since it's perfectly legal to carry a weapon in the airport up to the TSA sign and the checkpoint caught the weapon.

[scott715us]

TSA is required to notify local LE when a weapon is found so that the LEO can decide whether local charges are going to be pursued. Where I work there is zero-tolerance for a firearm at the checkpoint and the person is charged for unlawful carry and the weapon is seized. The standard TSA civil penalty for a firearm at the checkpoint is $2500 - $7k. It is also a federal crime, but in 10 yrs at an airport, I have only seen one person charged federally. If the investigation reveals that there's more to it than someone mistakenly leaving a gun in their bag, then we contact FBI. They are the ones responsible for violations of federal laws.

I'm not sure about Phoenix LE's policy about weapons at the checkpoint. I have heard that there are some states that do not arrest if the person is a permit holder and the investigation reveals it was not intentional. I would have to check with one of the TSA regulatory inspectors about mandated fines. It's hard for me to believe they exercise any discretion on the civil penalty, but obviously they did here.

The only time we have not pursued local charges is if it involved a LEO. I'm not sure if any LEOs that have come through in my 10 years (which is likely two or three, not sure) were fined also.

If this guy didn't want a black eye for TSA he should have followed protocol. This just makes it look worse.

p.s. It's not a felony in my state to attempt to board a plane with any weapon unless our investigation revealed that there was intent to do harm on a plane. If the weapon was artfully concealed in an attempt to get it through security, then that may fit the mold. I'm sure it's a federal crime, but criminal action is rarely pursued by the feds (not TSA, but FBI). TSA only has the authority to pursue civil penalties.

[MikeG]

If this guy didn't want a black eye for TSA he should have followed protocol. This just makes it look worse.

It sounds like the whistleblower was disgruntled former employee by his use of past tense in the quotes.

The thing that struck me is that the person that actually made the decision to stop LE from being notified and escorted the gun toter back out - immediately emailed his supervisor about about what happened and what he did. The supervisor then applauded that decision and thanked him. Even then he was disciplined after investigation. The complicit boss doesn't absolve him of responsibility but does point to their culture.

I've only heard two LEO stories, both secondhand. One involved a LT or Captain forgetting about weapon. He was the one fined and my impression was it pretty much torqued all the local LE since he was same department that was working the airport. I think he quietly paid to make it all go away. I have no idea what TSA policy is on fining local LEOs going through CP with weapon but apparently they can.

The second story was an officer that got in line and realized he still had weapon. Once in line, you can't get out. He got the attention of a uniformed local LEO working the airport, gave him his LTs name, card and weapon. Not sure if TSA saw transaction or not or if they could even do anything. That's a handy tip if you find yourself in the wrong line. Even if your not a LEO, a $5000 fine can kind of spur an on-spot firesale. "That's right officer, my custom Les Baer 1911 is on sale for $1. Today only."



Also, I thought you airport types got special cross-deputization to enforce federal laws?

[G35 Mass]

What's with your hard-on for TSA?

[retdetsgt]

What's with your hard-on for TSA?

I don't know what his is, but mine is that they engage mostly in smoke and mirrors in the terminal while the tarmac isn't that secure. I wonder what kind of background checks they do on them? For not having that many employees, I read all the time about arrests made of ones for stealing from passengers.

Miami TSA Officer And His Wife Charged With Stealing From Passengers' Luggage | Fox News

TSA Agent Arrested For Allegedly Stealing $5,000 From Passenger's Jacket | Fox News

TSA Agent Disciplined For Leaving Passenger Note About Sex Toy | Fox News

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/21...lashing-badge/

That's just in the last couple of months.... What other federal agency with that much power has that many people arrested?

[scott715us]

It would burn me to no end for TSA to issue a civil penalty to a LEO. Discretion can be exercised by TSA just at it can any other government agency. I have had maybe one or two LEOs come through mistakenly with their weapon and it's been so long since it happened I can't honestly tell you if they were fined by the TSA or not. Obviously they can do it, but they have a choice just like anyone else. If they don't enforce the rules against other TSA employees, then they shouldn't do it against LEOs or others who are authorized to carry weapons nationwide. Although local LEOs have to go through more red tape to carry on an aircraft than the feds, we can still do it nonetheless. We do not pursue charges against other LEOs unless there are some aggravating circumstances involved.

The second story was an officer that got in line and realized he still had weapon. Once in line, you can't get out.

Depends on where he is in line. If he's already thrown his bags on the xray belt and they're in the process of being xrayed, then you're correct. If he's standing in line waiting to get his ID checked, he still has a right to leave. I think even between the point where the ID is checked versus actual screening, one could probably exit. The US v. Aukai case out of the 9th Circuit helped establish that once the screening process is initiated people are not allowed to discontinue until any issues have been resolved.

As far as our authority, we hold the same as any other LEO (statewide). We work with the feds quite a bit depending on the investigation but I don't have federal authority. Our EOD guys do carry creds issued by FBI just in case they're needed anywhere else. If we believe a federal law has been violated, we detain and contact the feds to see if they want to come out. If not, then we cut the person loose. If the feds want to investigate then the person is held until they get there. The few times I've been involved in federal investigations/charges, it involved passengers who interfered with the flight crew and/or created a significant enough disturbance on the aircraft. Normally we already have that person in custody on local charges anyway. We also notify FAA about other civil violations (like smoking on aircraft). There's kind of a grey area between what is TSA's and what is FAA's. Anything related to security is TSA. Any non-threatening matters can be FAA and/or TSAs. Either way both agencies can issue civil penalties against the violator(s).

I wanted to add that if there's a criminal violation, the FBI is notified. They are the only ones that pursue federal criminal charges on airplanes. The TSA is there, but not in that capacity. So in a nutshell we can charge locally and then contact the FBI to see if they want to come out for federal criminal matters.

It peeves me that when people discover I'm an airport LEO they start asking me questions about what can and can't go in their bag. I tell them to go to tsa.gov. The only time I care about luggage is if there are guns and/or dope in them.

[MikeG]

What's with your hard-on for TSA?

Nothing particular about the people. They are tasked by law and rules created by DHS and however those rules make it into the federal register. I wasn't aware if they had discretion on civil penalties for certain violations and scott715us confirmed that they do. I also didn't know what happens in other federal workplace situations if someone not authorized to have a firearm at work accidentally brings a firearm to work. That one wasn't answered and I would hope there is discretion there as well but politics is strange at best.

As for their mission, I think it's a great wasted expense. My personal opinion is that unionizing all the security people as federal employees was a political compromise to get Democrats on board with the first patriot acts (IIRC, dems allowed CIA to share more info with LE and allow LE to monitor international calls to terrorists from the U.S. in exchange for this giant union.).

As I see it implemented, TSA is tasked with two things: 1) prevent airplanes from being bombed (i.e. Lockerbie) and 2) prevent airplanes from being used as weapons to attack other infrastructure. For #1, there are other glaring holes that makes their processes tedious and pointless. It's like trying to protect the Golden Gate bridge from bomb attacks by checking all pedestrians that cross the bridge. Cars and trucks aren't checked, nor are boats going underneath or planes over the top. DHS reasoning for only subjecting pedestrians is that the last attack was by a pedestrian so the pedestrian security agency was formed and billions are spent on pedestrian inspections while the bridge remains at risk from they other methods that aren't as visible by the public.

For #2, there are simply cheaper and more effective methods to prevent takeovers from inside a plane and there are also glaring holes outside the scope of TSA that makes their efforts practically useless in this regard.

Unfortunately there will someday be a devastating attack that was beyond TSA's scope and it will be an obvious waste for the most part. It's like super-securing the front door after a burglary with triple deadbolt, reinforced frames, motion detectors. But leaving the sliding glass door right next to it untouch because everyone has always gone through the front door previously. Except Washington, DC - its all a dog and pony show.



As for #2

[Joeyd6]

I wanted to add that if there's a criminal violation, the FBI is notified. They are the only ones that pursue federal criminal charges on airplanes.

Actually the FAMS, which falls under TSA under DHS has full legal authority to arrest and charge federal criminal charges on airplanes too! FAMS have made many arrests at airports, in the air and on the tarmacs! They just don't get the press the bureau does...

Does Tennessee have airports? I though you folks just have "country star giantic tour bus" bus stations? Lol---JK!

[retdetsgt]

When TSA was created, they had to hire a lot of people really fast. A couple of retired friends of mine worked security at the testing facility here (a large hotel) when they did the initial examinations. Both commented that that a whole lot of the people there were not impressive at all, and that's a bit of an understatement. One said something about "hillbilly heaven."

I think it says something that the feds felt it necessary to hire security people for their testing area. I never heard of that before. And again, I wonder how extensive a background check they did? I suspect only a cursory computer criminal check from the looks of things. Again, they had to hire a lot of people quickly and unemployment wasn't that high then. How were they going to fill those slots that quickly unless they cut some corners?

I rarely fly, but my wife does several times a year. She's retired from the state department of human services although I never mentioned anything to her, she made a comment that several of the TSA people looked like welfare clients she used to have.

I don't mean to disparage all TSA people, no doubt the majority are dedicated to their job, but some remind me of the proverbial PFC with a clipboard, a little drunk with power and not a lot of scruples..... Couple that with a lot of kneejerk reactions by bureaucrats who have little or no idea of the real world issuing directives and you don't have much efficiency.

There's no argument that we need security, but I'm not impressed with the job TSA is doing.

[scott715us]

Actually the FAMS, which falls under TSA under DHS has full legal authority to arrest and charge federal criminal charges on airplanes too! FAMS have made many arrests at airports, in the air and on the tarmacs! They just don't get the press the bureau does...

Does Tennessee have airports? I though you folks just have "country star giantic tour bus" bus stations? Lol---JK!

Hahaha! Yea, I guess I forgot about the FAMs. I honestly haven't had to work with any of them involving an incident on a plane. That's sort of surprising considering we have between 150 - 200 flts a day out of BNA.

As far as the background checks, I know the TSA folks are getting at minimum a full NCIC check just to be badged at the airport. As far as their agency doing any other checks (credit, psych, etc), not sure. I would have to ask one of them.

[retdetsgt]

As far as the background checks, I know the TSA folks are getting at minimum a full NCIC check just to be badged at the airport. As far as their agency doing any other checks (credit, psych, etc), not sure. I would have to ask one of them.

The NCIC check would eliminate felons, that's about it. They may do more of a check now, but I just can't believe they did much in the beginning because of the timing of the initial testing and them being on line and working. I dunno, but to me that's a pretty responsible position to hire someone for with nothing more than a few computer checks. We do more of a check when we hire parking meter enforcement people.