ICE/ CBP question on checks

[MikeG]

Mesa police: Man shoots self in hand after night of drinking

The above article is about a person that accidentally shoots himself in the hand (though the actual background in the story leads me to believe it was DV related and not just "cleaning.").

I think the first charge is the disorderly conduct with weapon charge which relates to recklessly discharging the pistol (class 6 felony in AZ).

It turns out that this person is an illegal immigrant (sounds like he admitted it as oppsosed to the police doing an immigration check). That makes him a prohibited possessor and leads to the two other felony charges (prohibited possessor and misconduct involving weapons).

I have two questions that stem from this. Please don't answer in a way that would lead people to understand how to thwart the system or tactics, I just want to understand what protections are in place (in light of restrictions on Sheriff Joe or other places).

My questions are this:

1) If this person had not committed a felony but was rather stopped for a traffic offense or misdemeanor and had a firearm that would otherwise be lawful for a citizen to have, is there a way for an officer to check for "prohibited possessor" status as officer safety without having to have PC for being in country illegally? In other words, if he was a felon or DV offender or subject to restraining order, he is flagged during the W&W check and there is no hurdle to get that info and possession of a firearm would be an arrest. But an illegal immigrant is also a prohibited possessor so is there a quick, no hurdle way to check for "prohibited possessor" status if an officer comes across a firearm?

2) If a person is arrested for a non-violent crime (felony or misdemeanor) and at the time of arrest has a firearm that is unrelated to the charges (no misconduct with the weapon and lawful to possess as citizen), will the firearm possession be passed on to ICE/CBP and will ICE/CBP do a check on that person and add "prohibited possessor" charges if they come back as illegal?

My concern is that removing immigration checks by the sheriff (and restricting that information in the field) is leading to a lot of "prohibited possessors" to escape weapons charges because their crimes aren't deemed "violent enough" to warrant immigration checks. Is my concern misplaced? Is a prohibited possesor felony conviction "violent enough" to warrant deportation?

[MikeG]

Buehler?

[txinvestigator1]

Mesa police: Man shoots self in hand after night of drinking

The above article is about a person that accidentally shoots himself in the hand (though the actual background in the story leads me to believe it was DV related and not just "cleaning.").

I think the first charge is the disorderly conduct with weapon charge which relates to recklessly discharging the pistol (class 6 felony in AZ).

It turns out that this person is an illegal immigrant (sounds like he admitted it as oppsosed to the police doing an immigration check). That makes him a prohibited possessor and leads to the two other felony charges (prohibited possessor and misconduct involving weapons).

I have two questions that stem from this. Please don't answer in a way that would lead people to understand how to thwart the system or tactics, I just want to understand what protections are in place (in light of restrictions on Sheriff Joe or other places).

My questions are this:

1) If this person had not committed a felony but was rather stopped for a traffic offense or misdemeanor and had a firearm that would otherwise be lawful for a citizen to have, is there a way for an officer to check for "prohibited possessor" status as officer safety without having to have PC for being in country illegally? In other words, if he was a felon or DV offender or subject to restraining order, he is flagged during the W&W check and there is no hurdle to get that info and possession of a firearm would be an arrest. But an illegal immigrant is also a prohibited possessor so is there a quick, no hurdle way to check for "prohibited possessor" status if an officer comes across a firearm?

I'll try. The "prohibited possessor" status is a FEDERAL classification and not, at least in my state, violation of state law. Except for very narrow circumstances non-federal LEOs, meaning local and state police, cannot enforce federal laws.

[Big Sexy]

It is illegal for an illegal alien, regardless of past or lack thereof other offenses, be they misdeamoner or felony, to posses a firearm under a,ny circumstance.

Whether federal authorities are alerted to such is another matter.

[charlydevo]

I don't really know how to answer your question, but I'll try. ICE has a Law Enforcement Support Center. Any LEO can call up and establish an account. Once you have one, you can run an immigration check on anybody that you encounter simply by making a phone call. Unfortunately, however, there is no database of illegal aliens. There is only a database of aliens (legal or illegal) who are in the system for some reason. So, without detaining the suspect for an ICE interview, you might not get any hit if the he is an illegal alien that has never been in the system. However, you can run names and dob to see if somebody who claims to be here legally actually is. You can also run immigration documents to see if they are legit. Does that make sense?

[MikeG]

I'll try. The "prohibited possessor" status is a FEDERAL classification and not, at least in my state, violation of state law. Except for very narrow circumstances non-federal LEOs, meaning local and state police, cannot enforce federal laws.

Oh, I thought all LEOs, local or otherwise, could enforce prohibited possessor laws. I thought felons caught with guns went to jail. I thought it was like how states coded in federal drug laws so they could go after Schedule 1 drugs.

[txinvestigator1]

Oh, I thought all LEOs, local or otherwise, could enforce prohibited possessor laws. I thought felons caught with guns went to jail. I thought it was like how states coded in federal drug laws so they could go after Schedule 1 drugs.

In my state, at least, it is a violation of state law for a felon to be in possession of a firearm. A felon found in possession of a firearm by a local or state officer would be arrested on the state charge and prosecuted in state court.

Since there is no offense in this state to be in the state as an illegal alien, there is no state law making it unlawful for that illegal alien to be in possession of a firearm. In fact, unless the Texas Peace Officer has a state charge, he cannot hold the illegal on a federal offense.

[MikeG]

In my state, at least, it is a violation of state law for a felon to be in possession of a firearm. A felon found in possession of a firearm by a local or state officer would be arrested on the state charge and prosecuted in state court.

Since there is no offense in this state to be in the state as an illegal alien, there is no state law making it unlawful for that illegal alien to be in possession of a firearm. In fact, unless the Texas Peace Officer has a state charge, he cannot hold the illegal on a federal offense.

Kinda sucks that the argument the feds make is that its "civil" immigration violation when in reality its a felony then. Anybody else worried that a felony if going undetected?

[MikeG]

It is illegal for an illegal alien, regardless of past or lack thereof other offenses, be they misdeamoner or felony, to posses a firearm under a,ny circumstance.

Whether federal authorities are alerted to such is another matter.

Is it considered "violent enough" to meet the administration requimrement for detention and deportation?

[txinvestigator1]

Kinda sucks that the argument the feds make is that its "civil" immigration violation when in reality its a felony then. Anybody else worried that a felony if going undetected?

I don't know if it is only civil in federal law, it is just that locals cannot enforce federal laws.

[G35 Mass]

It's very easy for me. To possess any firearm, people must have a license issued by the state. No license = handcuffs. Residency, citizenship, etc. is a non-matter for me.

[Big Sexy]

Is it considered "violent enough" to meet the administration requimrement for detention and deportation?

Nothing to do with violence, it's prohibited by statue.

The question you should ask is if the AUSA's office would accept for prosecution.

[MikeG]

I don't know if it is only civil in federal law, it is just that locals cannot enforce federal laws.

So AZ is a little different - but let's say you arrest someone in Tx for a misdemeanor but he had a gun that under texas law was permissible. Would the feds a) determine his immigration status and b) up the charge to a felony? example: DUI arrest with unloaded gun locked in the trunk. Undocumented alien gets an immigration hold placed on him. Does he then get charged with a felony by the feds due to the circumstances of a firearm? Or is it ignored and is he released pending an immigration hearing?

[MikeG]

Nothing to do with violence, it's prohibited by statue.

The question you should ask is if the AUSA's office would accept for prosecution.

I was wondering if the political agenda of going after only the most violent illegal immigrants was a factor and if firearms posession was considered "violent" or if it's ignored if the gun wasn't used in a crime of violence.