Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

For those of you who are planning to join the PSP, my academic adviser at Penn State has inside information that PSP will be requiring bachelor's degrees within the next 2-4 years. If anyone from PSP can confirm this, that would be great, but I trust my adviser knows what he's talking about and I doubt he would give me false information like that.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. They have literally thousands of applicants to turn down each test. Makes it easier to thin the herd.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. They have literally thousands of applicants to turn down each test. Makes it easier to thin the herd.

That's exactly why we did it and it turned into a disaster. We found that better educated didn't translate into better applicant. Too many applicants had no work or real life experience. After nearly 10 years, we reverted back to a 2 year degree that can be offset by military or prior police background.

We found that better educated didn't translate into better applicant. Too many applicants had no work or real life experience.

You said it! I love seeing the applicant come in for a 1811 job interview and explain how they have a Masters and were on Deans list and are 23/24 and still live at home with no work experience because they were "focusing on studies."

No life/work experience. And while I commend them, I always ask them why I should hire them if they only got a 3.7 with no job or other stress at the time, when I can hire somebody who got a 3.5 or a 3.3 who worked part time and some a full-time job while manageing a family/spouse during the same time period. So far few have seen the irony in such.

The problem I saw with them was they had no idea how to deal with the typical person cops come into contact with. They grew up in a very nice neighborhood, went to good schools, parents were professional and the first time they're on their own at all was in an academic setting.

Then they come on a police department and have to talk to Joe the Ragman and they are way out of their element. They've never really dealt with the public per se and especially with someone so far below their socio-economic background. Not to mention they have this idealistic idea of what police work is all about and when that crashes on them, they're burned out after a few years.

I like people who have had to struggle just a little bit and not for grades, but to pay the rent now and then. They're a lot more empathetic to others who haven't had a real easy time of it. People tend to trust cops like that more and you can't be effective investigating crimes if you're not trusted. Nobody is going to respect someone who looks down on them and that's what I observed a lot of in that group.

I like people who have had to struggle just a little bit and not for grades, but to pay the rent now and then. They're a lot more empathetic to others who haven't had a real easy time of it.

Interesting point.

I look at our veterans vs. our degreed officers and I see a big difference.

Maybe I am biased as I am one of the vets. :)

As strict as I hear they are on the background they don't need that requirement...

I'm a vet with a graduate degree and I'm certainly not discounting the value of an education, but you need to bring more to the table than that. Making the requirement to be 21 with a degree takes a lot of good potential police officers out of the running. I realize the cost in administering the test to too many applicants, that's the problem we had. Each quarterly cycle we had about 1500 people taking the written test. When they finally dropped the bachelor's requirement, allowing people to substitute prior military and/or police experience still kept the applicant pool to a doable level.

The problem I saw with them was they had no idea how to deal with the typical person cops come into contact with. They grew up in a very nice neighborhood, went to good schools, parents were professional and the first time they're on their own at all was in an academic setting.

Then they come on a police department and have to talk to Joe the Ragman and they are way out of their element. They've never really dealt with the public per se and especially with someone so far below their socio-economic background. Not to mention they have this idealistic idea of what police work is all about and when that crashes on them, they're burned out after a few years.

I like people who have had to struggle just a little bit and not for grades, but to pay the rent now and then. They're a lot more empathetic to others who haven't had a real easy time of it. People tend to trust cops like that more and you can't be effective investigating crimes if you're not trusted. Nobody is going to respect someone who looks down on them and that's what I observed a lot of in that group.

However, today more and more people from "poor" backgrounds, such as myself(I know what poor is, I'm from a town of 7,500 people where the average income for a home is less than $35,000) are able to get an education thanks to all of the financial aid available for us, and I've wondered how the rent is going to be paid many a month.

However, today more and more people from "poor" backgrounds, such as myself(I know what poor is, I'm from a town of 7,500 people where the average income for a home is less than $35,000) are able to get an education thanks to all of the financial aid available for us, and I've wondered how the rent is going to be paid many a month.

Too bad you have that military discharge in your background though.

And where does all of that financial aid come from ?

The government.

Can I ask why you always ask people such obvious questions? What is the point?

The government.

Can I ask why you always ask people such obvious questions? What is the point?

Ever hear of scholarships? That's where I got my assistance out of high school. They didn't have government aid back then. I went on an academic from the company my Dad worked for and the athletic from the school.

Hmmm, alright. I see what happened here. I misinterpreted his question. My apologies. Although, I still don't know the motive for asking that question... Guess I'll have to wait for him to respond.

By the way, I called someone from the Navy and they said that my type of discharge absolutely SHOULD NOT disqualify me from any type of job whatsoever. In fact, while on the phone, they asked me if I wanted to re-enlist, and I respectfully said that no, I am a college student now.

By the way, I called someone from the Navy and they said that my type of discharge absolutely SHOULD NOT disqualify me from any type of job whatsoever. In fact, while on the phone, they asked me if I wanted to re-enlist, and I respectfully said that no, I am a college student now.

I hate to be the voice of doom, but the navy doesn't dictate who police departments hire. I don't know where that navy person got off telling you that, he is not the authority. We have different standards than the military. I'm sure they'd love to give you another chance, but they'll also enlist people on a daily basis that the police wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

He referred me to this:

"Entry Level Separation (ELS): As I said, this characterization is often misunderstood, as some people think that it's some kind of special separation program that allows them to quit if they have less than 180 days of service. It's not. It's simply another type of service characterization. If the servicemember has less than 180 days of service, and is discharged, the commander can say "I didn't have enough time to adequately measure this person's conduct and performance," by characterizing the service as "Entry Level." That's all an ELS is. Instead of giving an Honorable, General, or UOTHC, the service is "uncharacterized." An ELS is not honorable, it's not general, it's not anything. It means that the commander didn't have enough time to make a fair decision as to the overall service characterization. The commander DOES NOT have to characterize the service as Entry Level, even if the member has less than 180 days of service. If the commander feels it's appropriate, and the commander feels he/she knows enough about the member's conduct and performance, he/she can characterize the service as honorable, general, or UOTHC, instead. This is often done in cases of misconduct, or failure to meet or maintain standards. Usually, someone with an ELS has not been in the military long enough to qualify for most veteran benefits."

Sounds like a pretty neutral thing to me. It certainly won't do anything to help me, but it would be pretty unfair to hold it against me, also. Just my opinion.

Sounds like a pretty neutral thing to me. It certainly won't do anything to help me, but it would be pretty unfair to hold it against me, also. Just my opinion.

It probably won't affect you if you apply for Bank of America. But you're going to be facing serious competition in applying for a police position and it will be held against you.

That ELS was quoted by this guy too:

http://www.realpolice.net/forums/background-checks-hiring-process-46/94790-another-military-discharge-post.html

Go read the responses to his posting it.

Big difference between me and that guy. He lied, I didn't.

It's still not an honorable discharge. He lied, you couldn't handle basic training. What I wanted you to read was the posts that said we only hire people with honorable discharges, it doesn't matter what military regs say, we don't follow them. My department doesn't touch anyone with an UTH discharge and I bet PSP doesn't either.

Look, I don't care, dream the dream, but as I said in that thread, if you couldn't adjust to military service, people aren't going to look at you as much of a choice to hire, issue a gun, give a car and send you out with all that authority. Go apply and see what happens.

Well, alright, let me ask you this question, then.

Do you think I would eventually find a dept. that would hire me?

Well, alright, let me ask you this question, then.

Do you think I would eventually find a dept. that would hire me?

I have no idea. Probably not by a major department, but I can't answer for all departments. Why not join the Navy Reserve or something? That would clear up the discharge. Just an idea, do whatever you like.

What would an applicant who has the Peace Corps on his resume look like to a Police Department? It's something I was considering doing after college anyway.

We are looking for GOOD people who have little if anything in their background that may come back to haunt us if we don't require strict standards.

We are para-military in nature but the average police officer has GREAT power. Such great power that we look at things like any arrests , those that can't hack it in the military , thos that have a poor work history and or ethic or those that have background issues that simply may involve lifestyle choices that while legal , are indicative of potential problems.

Things like alcohol use/ abuse. Domestic problems. Financial problems. Work ethics. Associating with the criminal element. The list goes on.

Unlike the military who can boot you out in short order, police officers jobs can be somewhat protected ( thats not a bad thing) which can make it HARDER to get rid of a poor officer. We also are exposed to great civil liability for officers that do poorly. That costs a LOT of money. We don't like to spend money if we don't have to.

You made a committment to go into the US Navy. For reasons we don't know ( and don't care) , you couldn't keep your committment. We are risking spending time and money on hiring someone who can't keep a committment. Maybe you'll quit on us too ?

Regardless of the advice of the US Navy , we are skeptical. And we have a DUTY and OBLIGATION to do so. We are charged with enforcing the laws of the land. We need the best people we can get. Perhaps you are a great person but you will have to work on overcoming what we ( or the PSP) perceives. There are a LOT of good candidates out there who have an Honorable Discharge and or a degree.

Should the fact that someone stuck it out and earned an Honorable Discharge be given more weight than someone who didn't do so ?

You can work on improving your background with education , time and otherwise bettering yourself as a person through things like a good work history.

While the Peace Corps is a GREAT thing to do , it in and of itself is just another job to us. It would never hurt to have it ona resume'.

And I am an Honorably Discharged veteran of the USAF. 4 yrs active duty and 3 yrs in the Air Guard.

We are looking for GOOD people who have little if anything in their background that may come back to haunt us if we don't require strict standards.

We are para-military in nature but the average police officer has GREAT power. Such great power that we look at things like any arrests , those that can't hack it in the military , thos that have a poor work history and or ethic or those that have background issues that simply may involve lifestyle choices that while legal , are indicative of potential problems.

Things like alcohol use/ abuse. Domestic problems. Financial problems. Work ethics. Associating with the criminal element. The list goes on.

Unlike the military who can boot you out in short order, police officers jobs can be somewhat protected ( thats not a bad thing) which can make it HARDER to get rid of a poor officer. We also are exposed to great civil liability for officers that do poorly. That costs a LOT of money. We don't like to spend money if we don't have to.

You made a committment to go into the US Navy. For reasons we don't know ( and don't care) , you couldn't keep your committment. We are risking spending time and money on hiring someone who can't keep a committment. Maybe you'll quit on us too ?

Regardless of the advice of the US Navy , we are skeptical. And we have a DUTY and OBLIGATION to do so. We are charged with enforcing the laws of the land. We need the best people we can get. Perhaps you are a great person but you will have to work on overcoming what we ( or the PSP) perceives. There are a LOT of good candidates out there who have an Honorable Discharge and or a degree.

Should the fact that someone stuck it out and earned an Honorable Discharge be given more weight than someone who didn't do so ?

You can work on improving your background with education , time and otherwise bettering yourself as a person through things like a good work history.

While the Peace Corps is a GREAT thing to do , it in and of itself is just another job to us. It would never hurt to have it ona resume'.

And I am an Honorably Discharged veteran of the USAF. 4 yrs active duty and 3 yrs in the Air Guard.

Wow. Guess I didn't really think about it from that perspective, but then again, how could I? This is why I came to ask you guys. Thank you for your service! So do you think it's a solid plan to complete my degree, go do Peace Corps for 2-3 years then come back and apply to be a police officer? By then, that would make me roughly 27/28. I figure even at earliest convenience, I won't have my degree completed until I'm 23(though I'll have to check on that) and the time it takes to get into the Peace Corps and go is another year I believe, then the 2-3 years(the initial committment is 27 months). And so, I would look a lot stronger then as an applicant based on just my age alone, and then adding in that I have a degree, I did a job that gave me the experience of a lifetime, and that this underage drinking/drug use is way behind me? Someone from the PSP told me to live my life as if I already hold a LEO position. I hope what I've outlined will help convey that I am doing my best to do that. :)

By the way, I called someone from the Navy and they said that my type of discharge absolutely SHOULD NOT disqualify me from any type of job whatsoever.

Steelers4ever, you seem like not only a nice guy but a fairly sharp guy (plus you're a Steeler fan), and I can see a Navy person telling you "it should not disqualify you from a job" but I find it hard to believe they'd say "absolutely should not." Unless that person served as the hiring manager or hiring board in the civilian world, it would be irresponsible for him to even say that. I've been hiring people for a lot of years and anything less than an honorable discharge would make me throw your resume out of the stack first. That's how hiring is done at least in the civilian world...we have too many resumes and look for a reason to whittle the stack down before spending time on the few remaining resumes.

Your plan has a LOT of merit.

I cannot ultimately determine what you will do or how you will be preceived but perhaps a few years of sticking things out will do a lot to improve your background. You can never completely erase the past but you can show through hard work and perserverence that you seem to have overcome an earlier failure in life.