Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

I have a paper to turn in, and I was wondering if any of you guys could help answer a question for me.. (Florida Criminal Law, Search and Seizure)

Building manager calls police and says she's observed suspicious activity concerning a tennant having several people spending the night, and loading expensive electronic equipment into the apartment at all hours. (Suspicious, but not illegal.)

Next day, police officer arrives to speak with building manager, but observes tennant carrying expensive electronic equipment into said apartment.

Officer asks tennant "Where did you buy that?"

Tennant does not answer, promptly runs into apartment, and shuts door on officer's arm.

(QUESTION: Was the tennant considered to be "detained" when the officer asked that question? Did the tennant violate the law in any way by running into apartment while being questioned by officer? Is this considered fleeing, and if so, what is the charge?)

Officer then chases tennant into apartment, and has door slammed on arm in process. Officer effects an arrest, procedes to search apartment, and discovers said merchandise is, in fact, stolen.

(QUESTION: Was the officer allowed to chase tennant into apartment to make an arrest? Do exigent circumstances apply? Can the tennant be charged with assault in slamming the door on officer's arm? If so, does this have anything to do with the officer's right to enter?)

Please elaborate as concisely as possible. I'd appreciate it. I'm particularly concerned with any possible 4th amendment violations. Thanks.

Repeat after me, the officers on this forum will not do my homework for me...

Repeat after me, the officers on this forum will not do my homework for me...

I'll not go into great detail for the above reason.

But case law is that unprovoked flight is reasonable suspicion to detain and investigate by itself. The initial pursuit and arrest (for the assault on the officer if nothing else) is justified.

Beyond that, I'd like to see you post what YOU think, in the interest of making this a discussion of the question instead of us doing your homework for you.

-Citicop.

Gosh, you guys are harsh. I've been assigned the extremely difficult task of writing a motion to suppress for the defense, yet everything I can see it that it's a clean arrest, with no constitutional violations. I have to represent the defense, and convince the judge to throw out the evidence.

So, if I -had- to defend this, I would nitpick the definition of "flee".. arguing that it was not an "unprovoked flight", but rather a citizen exercising his constitutional right not to answer questions, then entering his own home, while the officer attempted to unlawfully barge his way into defendant's home, thus violating said defendant's rights.

I realize it's a long-shot, but that seems to be my best defense so far. Opinions?

Gosh, you guys are harsh. I've been assigned the extremely difficult task of writing a motion to suppress for the defense, yet everything I can see it that it's a clean arrest, with no constitutional violations. I have to represent the defense, and convince the judge to throw out the evidence.

So, if I -had- to defend this, I would nitpick the definition of "flee".. arguing that it was not an "unprovoked flight", but rather a citizen exercising his constitutional right not to answer questions, then entering his own home, while the officer attempted to unlawfully barge his way into defendant's home, thus violating said defendant's rights.

I realize it's a long-shot, but that seems to be my best defense so far. Opinions?

Maybe you should ask a criminal defense liar.. I mean Lawyer...

btw, you asked SEVEN homework questions - not just ONE... I think you should discuss these topics with your study group/classmates FIRST - then ask here. Be sure to give arguments for both YES and NO answers to the questions you asked in your first post... show some effort...

btw, you asked SEVEN homework questions - not just ONE... I think you should discuss these topics with your study group/classmates FIRST - then ask here. Be sure to give arguments for both YES and NO answers to the questions you asked in your first post... show some effort...

Exactly. Come up with your own answers, post those here, and we will be happy to discuss the merits of what you've discovered.

Gosh, you guys are harsh. I've been assigned the extremely difficult task of writing a motion to suppress for the defense, yet everything I can see it that it's a clean arrest, with no constitutional violations. I have to represent the defense, and convince the judge to throw out the evidence.

So, if I -had- to defend this, I would nitpick the definition of "flee".. arguing that it was not an "unprovoked flight", but rather a citizen exercising his constitutional right not to answer questions, then entering his own home, while the officer attempted to unlawfully barge his way into defendant's home, thus violating said defendant's rights.

I realize it's a long-shot, but that seems to be my best defense so far. Opinions?

Maybe use the defense that the officer was not wearing his hat...therefore all further actions were illegal by the officer. Your client can sue the department for false arrest and get a huge payout and buy her own damn electronics.

But more seriously...I have no real answer for you as i am from Australia...and I am tired... and I don't do homework. good luck with your assignment.

On the other hand, I have very little experience in academic writing as we do not need to have a degree here, and I joined Police after ten years service in the military. However for my promotion I do have to do two 3 000 word essays. The first one I completed last week. It was really boring and long. I had to cover the incident command system and how it related to a bomb threat at a government office. Can you help me with the next one i have to do? In your own time? Free of charge? It is on a suicidal male with mental health issues harming his mother. I need it done by early November complete with a list of references used as readings. I can send you the text books to help if you like. Thanks.

The big problem with answering your questions is that you could be the
apartment dweller. If you have been arrested for poss of stolen property,
we are not going to give you any help on how to fight the charge.
That is the defense attorneys job.

The big problem with answering your questions is that you could be the
apartment dweller. If you have been arrested for poss of stolen property,
we are not going to give you any help on how to fight the charge.
That is the defense attorneys job.

You mean people actually go on the internet and pretend to be something that they're not??!! Say it ain't so!

You mean people actually go on the internet and pretend to be something that they're not??!! Say it ain't so!

Bahahahaha!!!

Go through the progression of what is required to establish "reasonable suspicion" that gives officer the authority to detain/question and post your findings. There are key elements for it and some may be missing from your example. Go research and re-post. It's obvious to me but I am not LEO or lawyer and that makes it subjective.

You mean people actually go on the internet and pretend to be something that they're not??!! Say it ain't so!

I'm going to have to do my own essay too, aren't I? DAMN!!!

I had no idea law enforcement officers were so incredibly petty, insecure and spiteful. Only when punk kids come in and try to act all smart ( but then why were you asking US questions ??

To assuage your doubts: Yes, I am a real student. No, I am not the apartment dweller. This is an assignment based on a fictional case from 2009, and pertains to the recent Miranda revision. There was alot more to my assignment. Do your own homework junior.

You old cops seem to think that it's important to keep people ignorant, that you have no obligation to help new young law enforcment potentials become educated, or train them how to do their jobs to the best of their abilities. Are we obligated to teach / train you ? Isn't that why you are in COLLEGE ??

Let me remind you, that back in your days, when dinosaurs walked the earth, you old fogies didnt have to jump through the same hoops that we have to today. Your standards were much lower (Considering todays standards only require a GED equivalent and no felony convictions, that's damn sad..) Lets see , during my academy , I had to TYPE ON A TYPEWRITER all of the days notes from class and show it every morning of the next day. NO word processors , spell check or computers. That meant a LOT of typing. That is just one example of how easy we had it.

Instead of being crotchety old veterans you should be greatful that I'm making an effort to understand the law, and seek advice from seasoned professionals. Instead, you chastise me and refuse to help. Im not asking you to do my homework SURE YOU ARE you professional officers , just seek advice on some key points. The next time your have trouble hiring quality recruits- look in the mirror. Arrogance and self-righteousness are not virtues. Don't worry , with your attitude , you won't get far anyway. We had over 400 show up for our last testing , looks like we aren't hurting for candidates :)

Aussie guy, why are you even commenting on US law at all? Because he CAN.

Mike G, despite your lack of credentials, I appreciate your answer. I have examined that thoroughly, and it seems highly subjective. One could make a good argument that carrying electronic equipment into your home in this day and age of small business owners and ebayers isn't all that suspicious.

( yes, Christ is Holy) but we already knew that..... You guys definitely make me think twice about calling myself one of you. I still believe in "serve and protect." Perhaps youre all too jaded, and its time to cash in on that pension. ^ ^

Since when are you one of us ? You aren't hired and you obvioulsy won't get hired with your attitude and demeanor. but there are plenty of decent recruits out there that will get a job long before you.


Your veteran officer and pal , Mc. aka T-rex.

Wow if you throw a tantrum because the officers won't do your homework for you I wonder what you would do if they actually did something wrong.

:nopity:

I had no idea law enforcement officers were so incredibly petty, insecure and spiteful.

To assuage your doubts: Yes, I am a real student. No, I am not the apartment dweller. This is an assignment based on a fictional case from 2009, and pertains to the recent Miranda revision. There was alot more to my assignment.

You old cops seem to think that it's important to keep people ignorant, that you have no obligation to help new young law enforcment potentials become educated, or train them how to do their jobs to the best of their abilities.

Let me remind you, that back in your days, when dinosaurs walked the earth, you old fogies didnt have to jump through the same hoops that we have to today. Your standards were much lower (Considering todays standards only require a GED equivalent and no felony convictions, that's damn sad..)

Instead of being crotchety old fucks, you should be greatful that I'm making an effort to understand the law, and seek advice from seasoned professionals. Instead, you chastise me and refuse to help. Im not asking you to do my homework you presumptuous asses, just seek advice on some key points. The next time your have trouble hiring quality recruits- look in the mirror. Arrogance and self-righteousness are not virtues.

Aussie guy, why are you even commenting on US law at all?

Mike G, despite your lack of credentials, I appreciate your answer. I have examined that thoroughly, and it seems highly subjective. One could make a good argument that carrying electronic equipment into your home in this day and age of small business owners and ebayers isn't all that suspicious.

Holy Christ. You guys definitely make me think twice about calling myself one of you. I still believe in "serve and protect." Perhaps youre all too jaded, and its time to cash in on that pension. ^ ^

In our day we had no internet to take short cuts in doing our own work. We had to get off our butts and do it ourselves by opening books and not just asking total strangers to do our work for us. You could have quite easily got off your butt and gone to your local police station and asked if anyone there would be so kind to help you or in turn just done your work and read a book. You do know what a book is do you? And I don't mean the ones you download on your iPhone.

Secondly this is the internet. All sorts of whack jobs get on here. As has been pointed out, you could quite easily be some a$$hat that one of us is trying to get locked up for committing an offence and you are now using us to save your self paying for a lawyer. The internet...it is full of idiots.

Thirdly, this is a forum website. Imagine it is like a bar and a whole heap of us are sitting around having a few drinks. You are more than welcome to come over and ask us a few questions but if you think we are doing all your homework for you while we are trying to kick back and relax, then forget it.

And your attitude sucks quite frankly. If your best response to being told to do your own work is to call everyone here names, then you need to grow up or you will never be "one of us" because hopefully some recruiter will pick up on your immaturity and kick you out of his office (which I do believe is another requirment for this job).

God luck with your assignment.

BTW some of the cops here are not that older than you, just more mature.

I had no idea law enforcement officers were so incredibly petty, insecure and spiteful.

To assuage your doubts: Yes, I am a real student. No, I am not the apartment dweller. This is an assignment based on a fictional case from 2009, and pertains to the recent Miranda revision. There was alot more to my assignment.

You old cops seem to think that it's important to keep people ignorant, that you have no obligation to help new young law enforcment potentials become educated, or train them how to do their jobs to the best of their abilities.

Let me remind you, that back in your days, when dinosaurs walked the earth, you old fogies didnt have to jump through the same hoops that we have to today. Your standards were much lower (Considering todays standards only require a GED equivalent and no felony convictions, that's damn sad..)

Instead of being crotchety old fucks, you should be greatful that I'm making an effort to understand the law, and seek advice from seasoned professionals. Instead, you chastise me and refuse to help. Im not asking you to do my homework you presumptuous asses, just seek advice on some key points. The next time your have trouble hiring quality recruits- look in the mirror. Arrogance and self-righteousness are not virtues.

Aussie guy, why are you even commenting on US law at all?

Mike G, despite your lack of credentials, I appreciate your answer. I have examined that thoroughly, and it seems highly subjective. One could make a good argument that carrying electronic equipment into your home in this day and age of small business owners and ebayers isn't all that suspicious.

Holy Christ. You guys definitely make me think twice about calling myself one of you. I still believe in "serve and protect." Perhaps youre all too jaded, and its time to cash in on that pension. ^ ^

::clicking yet another Dmf-er::

Aussie guy, why are you even commenting on US law at all?



Laws do not vary that much from country to country. Something I have learnt from ten years as a cop and 4 years on this site (and others) discussing things such as this. And of course there is the fact that I have actually read books on this matter as a course of my employment as a Police Officer. Books that discuss laws. US laws. For the essay I wrote as per mentioned a few posts back. An essay I wrote all by myself.

The essay I wrote required academic referencing for any source of information otherwise it is considered pliagirism. How exactly did you plan on referencing any advice given here in your paper?? Just curious is all.

disregard thx... :D

Wtf??!! I cant red this self-righteous lazy dipsh1t??? Dammit...


I feel your pain Samuel. I now have to go get ready and give some real life people some red. Back in about ten hours.

Please elaborate as concisely as possible.

Yeah, I'll jump right on that as soon as we settle my consulting fee. :rolleyes5:

If he thought this was tough, I couldn't imagine him in any type of bootcamp. Or under any real pressure. Good f***ing gravy.

This one has an awful lot of growing up to do before he would make it on the streets, no less a briefing room full of men and women who actually DO the job.

Unbelievable.

If he thought this was tough, I couldn't imagine him in any type of bootcamp. Or under any real pressure. Good f***ing gravy.

I couldn't agree more. My current job has command structure very closely related to a police department and if they are going to get butt hurt over this site...they need to grow up quickly!

Mike G, despite your lack of credentials, I appreciate your answer. I have examined that thoroughly, and it seems highly subjective. One could make a good argument that carrying electronic equipment into your home in this day and age of small business owners and ebayers isn't all that suspicious.


First, you need a thicker skin and need to read TOS.

Second, you are still missing a crucial first piece. Someone mentioned 'unprovoked flight.' There are necessary ingredients to that. It's related, but not exactly, to the missing crucial first piece. If you find it, post it and then you can have a discussion of it's merits and you might get a better response than just a wide net looking for answers.

I couldn't agree more. My current job has command structure very closely related to a police department and if they are going to get butt hurt over this site...they need to grow up quickly!

I sure hope the people in your profession are not as insecure, petty, and spiteful as cops are. In the military, they're even worse...not only insecure, petty, and spiteful but really mean. And they yell at ya too damn it.

J/K...being REALLY facetious :) I still can't believe someone came on this site and offended people who are willing to impart knowledge you're never gonna find in a book. Shoot, I wish I'd had a site like this when I was first going into my new profession(s).

I had no idea law enforcement officers were so incredibly petty, insecure and spiteful.
OTOH, it's too bad you're just like so many of your peers - whiney, lazy, self-important, self-entitled, spoon-fed, dumbfuc&s, ETAL.

To assuage your doubts: Yes, I am a real student.
Yep, and that's ALL YOU ARE - a student. From your posts, it appears to me that: you haven't learned anything useful yet, you haven't experienced anything useful yet, and you certainly haven't DONE anything worthwhile yet.

No, I am not the apartment dweller. This is an assignment based on a fictional case from 2009, and pertains to the recent Miranda revision. There was alot more to my assignment.
There was a lot more you didn't do by yourself too. BTW, the scenarios you posed have NOTHING TO DO WITH MIRANDA. Idiot.

You old cops seem to think that it's important to keep people ignorant, that you have no obligation to help new young law enforcment potentials become educated, or train them how to do their jobs to the best of their abilities.
You seem to think you deserve something even though you haven't EARNED jack sh1t yet. You think you should be spoon-fed EVERYTHING. You think everything should be EASY for you or just HANDED TO YOU. You have NO WORK ETHIC. You think education/training/learning is the Sole Responsibility of the EDUCATOR/TRAINER (WRONG, NUMBNUTS!) You probably have never heard the proverb regarding teaching a man to fish - and if you have, it obviously went WAY over your pointed head. You ARE IGNORANT - and with your pisspoor attitude, you're destined to STAY IGNORANT.

Let me remind you, that back in your days, when dinosaurs walked the earth, you old fogies didnt have to jump through the same hoops that we have to today. Your standards were much lower (Considering todays standards only require a GED equivalent and no felony convictions, that's damn sad..)
Pshaw, more talking out of your ***. It's EASIER to get hired on today. You should stick to topics that you actually know something about - ID EST, don't talk about ANYTHING LE related because you DON'T KNOW SH!T!

Instead of being crotchety old fucks, you should be greatful that I'm making an effort to understand the law, and seek advice from seasoned professionals. Instead, you chastise me and refuse to help.
Effort? HA. I don't see ANY EFFORT from you - NIMROD. You're not "seeking advice", you're not making ANY effort to "understand". You're simply looking to parrot quick answers.

Im not asking you to do my homework you presumptuous asses, just seek advice on some key points.
BULLSH!T, DIPSH!T.

The next time your have trouble hiring quality recruits- look in the mirror. Arrogance and self-righteousness are not virtues.
HA. If we can't find quality recruits, it's because they're all like YOU.

Aussie guy, why are you even commenting on US law at all?

Mike G, despite your lack of credentials, I appreciate your answer. I have examined that thoroughly, and it seems highly subjective. One could make a good argument that carrying electronic equipment into your home in this day and age of small business owners and ebayers isn't all that suspicious.

Holy Christ. You guys definitely make me think twice about calling myself one of you. I still believe in "serve and protect." Perhaps youre all too jaded, and its time to cash in on that pension.

More nonsense from a CASE of Rocks (not just a box, a CASE)...

************************************************** *******************

There we have it, ladies and gents, the future of society... pardon me while I go puke...

I had no idea law enforcement officers were so incredibly petty, insecure and spiteful.
OTOH, it's too bad you're just like so many of your peers - whiney, lazy, self-important, self-entitled, spoon-fed, dumbfuc&s, ETAL.

To assuage your doubts: Yes, I am a real student.
Yep, and that's ALL YOU ARE - a student. From your posts, it appears to me that: you haven't learned anything useful yet, you haven't experienced anything useful yet, and you certainly haven't DONE anything worthwhile yet.

No, I am not the apartment dweller. This is an assignment based on a fictional case from 2009, and pertains to the recent Miranda revision. There was alot more to my assignment.
There was a lot more you didn't do by yourself too. BTW, the scenarios you posed have NOTHING TO DO WITH MIRANDA. Idiot.

You old cops seem to think that it's important to keep people ignorant, that you have no obligation to help new young law enforcment potentials become educated, or train them how to do their jobs to the best of their abilities.
You seem to think you deserve something even though you haven't EARNED jack sh1t yet. You think you should be spoon-fed EVERYTHING. You think everything should be EASY for you or just HANDED TO YOU. You have NO WORK ETHIC. You think education/training/learning is the Sole Responsibility of the EDUCATOR/TRAINER (WRONG, NUMBNUTS!) You probably have never heard the proverb regarding teaching a man to fish - and if you have, it obviously went WAY over your pointed head. You ARE IGNORANT - and with your pisspoor attitude, you're destined to STAY IGNORANT.

Let me remind you, that back in your days, when dinosaurs walked the earth, you old fogies didnt have to jump through the same hoops that we have to today. Your standards were much lower (Considering todays standards only require a GED equivalent and no felony convictions, that's damn sad..)
Pshaw, more talking out of your ***. It's EASIER to get hired on today. You should stick to topics that you actually know something about - ID EST, don't talk about ANYTHING LE related because you DON'T KNOW SH!T!

Instead of being crotchety old fucks, you should be greatful that I'm making an effort to understand the law, and seek advice from seasoned professionals. Instead, you chastise me and refuse to help.
Effort? HA. I don't see ANY EFFORT from you - NIMROD. You're not "seeking advice", you're not making ANY effort to "understand". You're simply looking to parrot quick answers.

Im not asking you to do my homework you presumptuous asses, just seek advice on some key points.
BULLSH!T, DIPSH!T.

The next time your have trouble hiring quality recruits- look in the mirror. Arrogance and self-righteousness are not virtues.
HA. If we can't find quality recruits, it's because they're all like YOU.

Aussie guy, why are you even commenting on US law at all?

Mike G, despite your lack of credentials, I appreciate your answer. I have examined that thoroughly, and it seems highly subjective. One could make a good argument that carrying electronic equipment into your home in this day and age of small business owners and ebayers isn't all that suspicious.

Holy Christ. You guys definitely make me think twice about calling myself one of you. I still believe in "serve and protect." Perhaps youre all too jaded, and its time to cash in on that pension.

More nonsense from a CASE of Rocks (not just a box, a CASE)...

************************************************** *******************

There we have it, ladies and gents, the future of society... pardon me while I go puke...

A couple of points officer Sam-well, sir:

1) Only one person can be as cynical as I am about the future of society. I see this attitude all the time in my job(s) and it makes me wanna puke. Big brains but nothing to connect the dots. It would be har-har funny if he were the only one with that entitlement mentality, but sadly he's not.

2) "You should be grateful I'm making the effort I'm making to understand the law." WTF?? I could just see some young Marine showing up for bootcamp saying, "You should be grateful I'm making an effort to pass this PT run." Drill instructors would be bent over with laughter, and then they'd discharge his a**. That statement just about sent me to the moon and I'm not even a LEO.

3) "You old cops seem to think that it's important to keep people ignorant." Ok, this one didn't even pass the logic test. We live in a world of TOO much information, where knowledge is everywhere to be found, unlike a few decades ago.

Ok, I'll stop piling on now. That attitude pervades a lot of professions though.

Freshbrood-

I am going to tell you this one time and one time only. The attitude you displayed in that last post is unacceptable. Profanity is forbidden by the TOS, and several officers (myself included) told you we would be happy to help you if you would just give us your opinion first so we could have a real discussion about the scenario you posted.

You ignored that though, and decided instead to lash out at the officers here (who you assumed are all old with no evidence to support you) and act like a spoiled brat in the process. We're here and willing to help (though we expect you to show you've already put some effort into it so we know you aren't just plagiarizing what we write) but if you continue down the path you started here your stay here will be short and unpleasant.

-Citicop.

My initial reaction to the original post was that it reads like a situation the OP found himself in and tried to pass off as homework. Ppl often come on here "writing a story" "helping a friend" or "doing homework" and what they really mean is "I f***ed up and now I'm looking for a way out of this jam but I'm too scared/dishonest to tell the truth so I'll hide it in a coverup question." The people on this board are in law enforcement, aspire to be, or are at least friends/family/supporters of LEOs. So you can hardly expect ppl to want to help someone get one over on a LEO doing his job.

Now, even if you are really doing homework, the point of homework is for you to do it. Google and the library are tools. Stop being lazy and use them. Law enforcement is a career that requires independent thought, hard work, and problem solving. If you can't even manage to put those to work for a class you'll never be able to for a job. Asking advice is one thing. Asking someone to do everything is another.

Finally, whichever is actually your situation being a rude little snot will not yield positive results either on this board or in your profession so you'd be wise to cut it and learn some respect from those you hope to learn from.

seeking-

I appreciate your input on this thread, but it has been four months since the last post here, and the OP has not logged on in nearly all that time (since 9/19/10), so I don't know that continued discussion on this topic makes any sense.

Everyone made their points clear, and the OP was clearly not interested in having a legitimate discussion in the first place, so I'm going to put this one to bed.

-Citicop.