Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

Fire chief shot by cop in Ark. court over tickets - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090903/ap_on_re_us/us_shot_in_court)

One cop for every 24 people? I think the national average ratio is closer to 1:500. That's a lot of cops. Sounds like a Super Troopers sequel. :p Mayor had an unmarked police cruiser in her driveway? They can't account for the money from the fines... Certainly a sequel.




"When I first moved out here, they wrote me a ticket for going 58 mph in my driveway," 75-year-old retiree Albert Beebe said.

What?

If you wrote a fiction and said that happened, people would say it was too unbelievable.

If you wrote a fiction and said that happened, people would say it was too unbelievable.

Agreed. It must be a fun small town to live in. From what I understand though, the 7 cops were funded by Bill Clintons "100,000 more cops on the street" thing, and a lot of the voting blocs like that got a good portion of the funding.

Agreed. It must be a fun small town to live in. From what I understand though, the 7 cops were funded by Bill Clintons "100,000 more cops on the street" thing, and a lot of the voting blocs like that got a good portion of the funding.

That only lasted for 3 years, each year's funding decreasing by a third.

That only lasted for 3 years, each year's funding decreasing by a third.

Yeah, but from what it looks like they did is they continued to pay for them at the expense of the Fire Department, as they lost all of their vehicles. Hopefully the Sheriffs can start their patrol there again for good not even if there was or wasn't corruption, but because it's not financially smart for a town that small to have their own Police Force..

If you wrote a fiction and said that happened, people would say it was too unbelievable.

I thought the same thing, If I saw that episode on television, I would change the channel because I know it would never happen.

.... Hopefully the Sheriffs can start their patrol there again for good not even if there was or wasn't corruption, but because it's not financially smart for a town that small to have their own Police Force..

Upon what experience do you base that assumption?

Is home rule a foreign concept to you? Maybe their S.O. has 2 guys and the County seat is 100 miles away.

Upon what experience do you base that assumption?

Is home rule a foreign concept to you? Maybe their S.O. has 2 guys and the County seat is 100 miles away.

The county seat is Marion, which is right down the road from them. 7 Officers for a town of 170 something people is a lot.

The county seat is Marion, which is right down the road from them. 7 Officers for a town of 170 something people is a lot.

Granted 7 is a lot, but one or 2 might be reasonable, depending on circumstances.

... and "down the road" has different definitions in Texas than it does in NYC.

Granted 7 is a lot, but one or 2 might be reasonable, depending on circumstances.

... and "down the road" has different definitions in Texas than it does in NYC.

It looks about 2 miles outside of the county seat, so it's not NYC down the road, but not too far.

I agree, 1 or 2 is reasonable.

Wow, how many times I didn't dream about shooting some SOB for making me show up to court on my day off for traffic court. I can't say it was much more than a dream though.

Years ago the New Rome Police Department had a speed trap setup in the Columbus area. There were so many problems the State ended up dissolving the entire village.

Google New Rome Police and you'll find plenty of stories.

Yeah, but from what it looks like they did is they continued to pay for them at the expense of the Fire Department, as they lost all of their vehicles. Hopefully the Sheriffs can start their patrol there again for good not even if there was or wasn't corruption, but because it's not financially smart for a town that small to have their own Police Force..

It's feasible for a lot of rural towns. People want quicker response than what a S.O., who has the whole county to patrol can do.

The little town in Texas where my parents lived had, I think four police officers. But everyone knew the chief and had his home phone number too. It's a whole 'nother world in some places. But unlike these guys, the police weren't caught up in traffic enforcement. Most had lived there all their lives and not many non residents drive through town breaking the law. They were mostly a presence and were there to keep the town's teenagers from drinking behind the football field.

Years ago the New Rome Police Department had a speed trap setup in the Columbus area. There were so many problems the State ended up dissolving the entire village.



I remember reading about 20 years ago about a little town in S. Oregon that had about 600 yards of I-5 within their city limits.

They were using that 600 yards to enforce speeding (anything 5 mph over) to finance most of the town's coffers. The state did something to put a stop to it, I'm not sure what. It seems they removed the police dept's certification after some other misdeeds were uncovered when they investigated them.

I remember reading about 20 years ago about a little town in S. Oregon that had about 600 yards of I-5 within their city limits.

They were using that 600 yards to enforce speeding (anything 5 mph over) to finance most of the town's coffers. The state did something to put a stop to it, I'm not sure what. It seems they removed the police dept's certification after some other misdeeds were uncovered when they investigated them.

Usually when I read about once happening in Georgia, they get them under certain State laws that say the PD cannot purchase equipment such as radar or anything to help them in traffic enforcement with the money gained from tickets.

I think the best thing to do is to have ticket money sent to the state, this way tickets remain more punitive rather than a town coffer fund raiser.

...I think the best thing to do is to have ticket money sent to the state, this way tickets remain more punitive rather than a town coffer fund raiser.

Again with the anti-home rule stuff. :rolleyes:

In my State, the Agency can only keep a percentage, the rest goes to the State for our Law Enforcement Hall of Fame upkeep and LE purposes. I don't think any actually goes back to the General Fund.

Law Enforcement NEVER "earns its keep" with tickets and fines ... or even drug seizures... in my state. In fact, the last I saw, LE collected around 20-25% in my town.

Snip

I didn't say Federal Government. :cool:

Law Enforcement NEVER "earns its keep" with tickets and fines ... or even drug seizures... in my state. In fact, the last I saw, LE collected around 20-25% in my town.

It's not that way in most Oregon towns. Portland doesn't have a municipal court, they use the state district court system so most of the money goes to the state. However, a lot of other towns use the police as ATM's. The municipal court judges are hired, not elected and the chances of you being found not guilty of a traffic offense is about zero.

I wish it was more like your state. I tell everyone who visits Oregon to watch for speed limit signs when getting anywhere near towns. A lot of them like to annex undeveloped land around the town and then post ridiculously low speed limits there.

I didn't say Federal Government. :cool:

And where did he? Creeker mentioned opinions of a jurisdiction taking care of itself (hence the anti-home rule comment).

It's just him (and others) pointing out a lot of comments that you have made with, what appears to be, absolutely not foundation to make. I would suggest a label near your mouth, saying, "Insert foot here," but this last post only makes it more clear that you have no problem finding it on your own.

:)

And where did he? Creeker mentioned opinions of a jurisdiction taking care of itself (hence the anti-home rule comment).


:)

As RetDet said, a lot of towns use the police like an ATM or you'd never hear about these small town speed traps. When the 'home' is doing those sort of things, 'home' should loose privilege.

If they aren't doing stuff like using the 600 yards of highway as reasons to pull people over, then by all means let them keep the money... but any town does bad with this, even big cities. NYC is famous for it's 115 dollar parking ticket.

The moral of the story kids is to never break the law....that way you don't get caught and dont have to pay ridiculous surcharges. :rolleyes:

As RetDet said, a lot of towns use the police like an ATM or you'd never hear about these small town speed traps. When the 'home' is doing those sort of things, 'home' should loose privilege.

If they aren't doing stuff like using the 600 yards of highway as reasons to pull people over, then by all means let them keep the money... but any town does bad with this, even big cities. NYC is famous for it's 115 dollar parking ticket.

Yeah, and smaller towns are more prone to corruption. :rolleyes: As mentioned earlier, let's see some cited sources to back that up. You can pick an example to back any crazy claim, but unfounded generalizations are just silly.

The moral of the story kids is to never break the law....that way you don't get caught and dont have to pay ridiculous surcharges. :rolleyes:

Well, yeah, but that's a little simplistic.

There isn't an epidemic of corruption per se, but there are towns around where I live that make a ****pot of money off of traffic citations and not all are reasonable.

The town next to mine drops the speed limit to 45 while you are still in farming country. There is absolutely no reason for that. There are no businesses, residences, nothing for another half mile. Cops work that stretch religiously. You can't tell me that they are there to promote traffic safety.:rolleyes:

Several years ago, my wife got a ticket in another little town. The cop, a reserve said he got her doing 47 in a 25. Not that she's not capable of speeding, she had just turned onto that street about 50' from the rise where he could first catch her with his radar gun. She was driving a Honda CRV that trust me, could not reach the speed of 47 in 50'.

We went to the municipal court and the last case called. Numerous people there who were all from out of town, were polite and told the judge that they were not going nearly as fast as the officer(s) had stated. The judge rejected each testimony and fined all heavily. I've sat in a lot of traffic courts, but I never saw such a pattern on consistent complaints in my life.

My wife called me as a witness and I drew a map showing where she turned, where the officer said he clocked her and the acceleration rate of the CRV when floorboarded. The judge got very uncomfortable and squirmed in her chair before finding her not guilty. The cop stormed out of the court like a spoiled 6 year old.:rolleyes:

Oregon has no sales tax. Little towns' only source of revenue other than traffic fines is property taxes. If there isn't much of a tax base, i.e. the land isn't that valuable, they have to get the money somewhere to exist as a city.

Beaverton, a pretty good size suburb of Portland damned near lost their photo radar because of the sneaky way they were doing it, setting it up intentionally outside the city limits plus using illegal strongarm threats to identify the driver if it wasn't the registered owner. I know one of the photo radar operators, a retired Portland cop. He told me the city manager told them she had no interest in traffic safety, but making money. In the same breath, she said that if the municipal judge didn't fine heavily enough, she'd fire him and hire someone who would.

Swat1 posted about getting a speeding ticket in a small town near here that was total bull****. Again, a zone posted for 25mph that was unreasonable and not expected by a non resident. Often the signs are posted intentionally where they are not noticed, as if front of a large advertisement that detracted from it.

Not every town in Oregon is like that, but to say you'll have no problem if you "obey the law" doesn't work that well when the police and municipal court work so hard to bring in money.

The moral of the story kids is to never break the law....that way you don't get caught and dont have to pay ridiculous surcharges. :rolleyes:

Lets say there was a person who was incapable of breaking traffic laws automatically (even if there is no such person in the world). Even he can get caught up in the Po-Dunk speed trap. I don't have a problem with speed enforcement if it's placed in an area that has signs and gives you a chance to slow down before you reach them... but a lot of them don't post speed limits and they drop with no warning.

Here's a good example of one in Oregon that I found:

East of Hubbard Cutoff Rd. NE, heading into the town of Aurora, OR, open roadway, posted 45mph, changes to 35mph with no warning, downhill, then changes to 25mph with no warning. County Sheriff and Aurora police take turns enforcing. Same judge works Aurora city hearing and county court. Judge, officer and no procecutor or court recorder.


Well, yeah, but that's a little simplistic.

There isn't an epidemic of corruption per se, but there are towns around where I live that make a ****pot of money off of traffic citations and not all are reasonable.


Oregon gets every single cent of the citation though? That's pretty bad. Especially with the pressure of "Not bringing in enough tickets/Not ruling guilty on enough cases" = No more career as a cop/judge. Whoever that City Manager is should certainly get canned.

My county is the complete opposite which is bad too. We don't do nearly enough enforcement as the areas I live in are covered by county police. You can bet the towns who have their own PD do a lot with the "ticket anyone who isn't a resident" rule. When my Grandmother lived in Malverne, they pulled her over once, say "Oh, you live here!" and let her go :p .

With New York State, we used to have higher state speed limits but during the Oil Crisis we lowered our speed limits and never changed them back.

Here's a good example of one in Oregon that I found:

East of Hubbard Cutoff Rd. NE, heading into the town of Aurora, OR, open roadway, posted 45mph, changes to 35mph with no warning, downhill, then changes to 25mph with no warning. County Sheriff and Aurora police take turns enforcing. Same judge works Aurora city hearing and county court. Judge, officer and no procecutor or court recorder.



That's the town where my wife got the ticket... It wasn't that stretch of road though.

Municipal courts here aren't courts of record so they are never recorded. In any traffic court anywhere in Oregon, a prosecutor only shows up if you bring a lawyer.



Oregon gets every single cent of the citation though?

I assume you mean the city, not Oregon, but no, the police academy gets some and some goes into a victims' assistance fund. But the city gets most of it.

Yes I ment the city. For speed limits, all states require a traffic engineering study to support an unusual or abnormally low speed limit. Most local village or cities using a state or county highway who want to lower speed limits drastically on the highway don't do that, and that's how local Gov't gets them.

However, a lot of people I talk to don't know the definition of a speed trap. They just think it's a place where cops hang out and give tickets, even though there's no trapping.