Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

I know there are some federal 1811 agencies that prefer certain degrees from their candidates such as DEA accounting/finance degrees and FBI has certain specific skills they want. What about ATF, ICE, USSS, USMS, USPIS and DSS?

Also what weights more your GPA or what your degree is in?

I'm asking because I'm currently going to college and I'm deciding in between CJ and a different degree but I know if I go for a degree in accounting/finance or such my GPA is going to drop compared to an easier degree such as CJ.

manolito_mp12

I will be a senior this year in college. I was first CJ then switched to Computer Science and then now to Accounting and Finance. From the people that I have talked to criminal justice is pretty much a dead degree. I have interned at a police station and a couple of federal agencies.

Internships and extracurricular activities weigh more.

What year are you?


I know there are some federal 1811 agencies that prefer certain degrees from their candidates such as DEA accounting/finance degrees and FBI has certain specific skills they want. What about ATF, ICE, USSS, USMS, USPIS and DSS?

Also what weights more your GPA or what your degree is in?

I'm asking because I'm currently going to college and I'm deciding in between CJ and a different degree but I know if I go for a degree in accounting/finance or such my GPA is going to drop compared to an easier degree such as CJ.

MOST federal LE agenceis do not require or give preference to specific degrees. The FBI is the only one that really does specific hiring initiatives, based on your degree. I have never heard ot he DEA doing it. Now, many of them may give you a little bump with foreign language proficiency, depending on agency needs.

manolito_mp12

I will be a senior this year in college. I was first CJ then switched to Computer Science and then now to Accounting and Finance. From the people that I have talked to criminal justice is pretty much a dead degree. I have interned at a police station and a couple of federal agencies.

Internships and extracurricular activities weigh more.

What year are you?

I disagree that CJ is a "dead degree" I have both a bachelors and masters and they served me just fine as do many others I know. The bottom line is, there is no "magic" degree to get into the FEDS. Like switch said only the bureau really puts out specific hiring initiatives for degrees. In any agency you will see a very large range of diverse degrees and experiences. Ive seen in just my 5 short years in the FEDS everything from CJ, to Accounting, Engineering, Teaching you name it. The education level you have usally gets you through the "door" so to speak and an interview/test etc. After that its how you can show what you can bring to the table with that education, experience, abilites etc. Its all part of the "whole person" concept agencies look at.

schoromanski,

I just became a junior. I'm like at 67 credits or something like that.

it's pretty simple;

No one cares what your degree is in as long as you can check the box that says you have a 4 year degree. But your GPA may get you hired at a higher rate.

Only agency I've heard that wants a certain type of degree is IRS and maybe FBI.

As an Agent with a BS in Criminology and being one class shy of my Masters in Sociology with a Criminology emphasis I don't agree with the CJ is a dead degree either.

I had the Bureau of the Public Debt tell me that my MSc (Master of Science in Management) degree was not applicable to an 1811 spot for HUD, and that I would have needed something like a CJ degree to qualify.

They said it was in the OPM manual but I never found a definitive list as to what graduate degrees are applicable for 1811's or not. Other than CJ, there aren't a whole lot of master degrees that would seemingly apply?

I had the Bureau of the Public Debt tell me that my MSc (Master of Science in Management) degree was not applicable to an 1811 spot for HUD, and that I would have needed something like a CJ degree to qualify.

They said it was in the OPM manual but I never found a definitive list as to what graduate degrees are applicable for 1811's or not. Other than CJ, there aren't a whole lot of master degrees that would seemingly apply?

I find that EXTREMELY hard to believe, as I have regularly worked with a couple HUD agents on out regional fugitive task force and neither has a CJ degree. If you can find an announcement I would be very eager to see it in writing.

taken my post on officer .com

you do not necessarily need a cj degree in order to get into the le field. i would recommend a major that is considered a skill set, such as accounting, language, or it with the relevant certifications. that way, you can take the skill with you wherever you go, even if you decide not to pursue a job in the le field. also it makes you stand out among the applicants since accounting can be possibly utilized by all le agencies, local, state, and federal. in my opinion a cj degree is very general and provides you with the insight about the cj system but cannot adequately prepare you for the actual street performance of duty. 4th amendment search and seizure, reasonable suspicion, procedures from initial arrest to sentencing can be learned by reading law textbooks, hornbooks, emanuels outlines, and reading published cases.

I had the Bureau of the Public Debt tell me that my MSc (Master of Science in Management) degree was not applicable to an 1811 spot for HUD, and that I would have needed something like a CJ degree to qualify.

They said it was in the OPM manual but I never found a definitive list as to what graduate degrees are applicable for 1811's or not. Other than CJ, there aren't a whole lot of master degrees that would seemingly apply?

I agree with Switch. I would check with someone directly at HUD. The Bureau of Public Debt falls under Dept of Treasury which isn't even the same agency. Both are under a different cabinet member.

The vacancy was being "HR'ed" by the Bureau of the Public Debt; an 1811 OIG for the HUD. I still have the emails with his exact language used to answer my obvious questions when I got the thin letter in the mail.

I've got the announcement in Word form, but you're right in that it only states "an applicable degree" when referring to GS-9 and using education to qualify.

The HR rep said they would not give me credit for my MSc towards GS-9 because it was not an applicable degree for an 1811; I've also got an undergrad in sociology and an AA in speech communications. Oh I countered back but after he reiterated, what else could I do?

They even then denied my merit ap for the same vacancy as a veteran (campaign badge/small VA service connected disability rating) because I supposedly failed to submit a performance appraisal - but I'm presently unemployed and not even a prior Fed employee (besides my DOD service, that is) so I only assumed that the absence of my appraisal would be apparent.

I don't know, what else can/should I do? This was just a couple of weeks ago.

I would call OPM at (202) 606-1800. First I would see if you can find someone that specializes in veterans preference. Maybe they can help find someone on the other issue from there.

IRS also has course requirements. They don't require a degree in accounting, but you must take, I believe, 24 credit hours in accounting to be eligible.

Yeah, but HUD requiring a CJ degree?

I have NEVER heard of any federal 1811 position requiring a CJ degree, specifically... NEVER, EVER, EVER. :)

I found two links.

This one is to the HUD OIG employment site:
OIG Special Agent Employment - HUD (http://www.hud.gov/offices/oig/careers/specialagent.cfm)

This is to a job posting in Kansas City.
http://jobview.usajobs.gov/getjob.aspx?JobID=83515555&sort=rv%2c-dtex&rad_units=miles&brd=3876&pp=50&jbf522=1811&vw=d&re=134&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y&caller=series.aspx&AVSDM=2009-09-22+00%3a03%3a00&rc=2&TabNum=3

Neither have a requirement for the specific degree. I think someone may be BS'ing you. Who knows the motivation. Let us know what you find out.

I found two links.

This one is to the HUD OIG employment site:
OIG Special Agent Employment - HUD (http://www.hud.gov/offices/oig/careers/specialagent.cfm)

This is to a job posting in Kansas City.
USAJOBS - Search Jobs (http://jobview.usajobs.gov/getjob.aspx?JobID=83515555&sort=rv%2c-dtex&rad_units=miles&brd=3876&pp=50&jbf522=1811&vw=d&re=134&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y&caller=series.aspx&AVSDM=2009-09-22+00%3a03%3a00&rc=2&TabNum=3)

Neither have a requirement for the specific degree. I think someone may be BS'ing you. Who knows the motivation. Let us know what you find out.
Wow, this blows me away to say the least, thanks for the link. (I can't believe I didn't already find it myself!)

It's been three weeks now so maybe they've already forwarded the list to the hiring official, but I find it particularly interesting that the HUD SA link you gave specifically says "business education" in it, something the HR rep at the BPD specifically said it did not.

I think I'm going to give a phone call him tomorrow and ask them to explain.

However, if it's already too late, what would I have to gain at this point?

This is the argument given to me by the HR at the BPD - that my master of science in management is not applicable to an 1811. I have it verbatim in his email with his signature on it, and now come to learn that the HUD website specifically says to the contrary.


A related master's or equivalent graduate degree or two full years of progressively higher level graduate education leading to such a degree or LL.B. or J.D. Attach a copy of transcripts or list of college courses designating semester or quarter hours earned to ensure proper credit.

SOME SUBSTITUTION OF EDUCATION FOR EXPERIENCE IS PERMISSABLE.



Each year, the OIG hires Special Agents from a pool of diverse and highly qualified candidates. They may be recent college graduates or experienced criminal investigators from other law enforcement agencies. Degrees vary with majors from Criminology to Business Education. http://www.hud.gov/offices/oig/careers/specialagent.cfm

That is the most stupid thing I have heard! Your degree is more applicable than most degrees taht go into the system. Hell, mine is in molecular biology... yeah, REAL applicable for an 1811 job, but here I am. :)

It's not too late, call asap. The last thing they want to do in the system is tick off a vet. Congress would get involved in a heartbeat. Even if they do nothing, you still tried. .

The best case is that they will cancel the current announcement and certification and re-announce.

Alright, so this is what it is. I called OPM and one way or another I ended up with the HR for the HUD in particular. What it is it appears, is that because my degree is not in CJ (because there really is no other masters degree that would fir the bill as the describe it - a degree giving some sort of investigative education,) you cannot use it to qualify for GS-9 alone.

Basically it goes like this - the OPM leaves the wording vague (probably intentionally) so that it says the degree has to be applicable to the job field. Well, they choose to interpret this as a CJ degree (there is no master's degree in law enforcement.) Why do they do this?

Because they already have more apps than they know what to do with and they have to find a way to thin out their pile somehow, so that is what they do. If the posting was for GS-7 I would have of course qualified.

They said they meet with the BPD every so often and that this will be a topic of discussion for their next meeting, so who knows. They did mention that they will also clarify their website better than it is now.

All I know is that I've always been of the opinion that if I need to file a lawsuit in order to get the job, I don't want to work there anyways - it's their loss.

I've got a ap out with OIG for the DOEd at GS-7/9 and am curious to see how they rate me, from the questions I answered I thought I should score at the top.

Would I recommend a CJ degree for a masters? Not unless you were already in the field, or if it was a secondary degree because on it's own, it can be very limiting into your prospects outside the CJ field and if for some reason you cannot pass a physical, your CJ degree could become really useless.

HR nowadays are so anal about discriminating against your degree and previous experience - too many figure if you haven't done it before than you're incapable of figuring out how to do it in the future. A far cry to when GI's came home from WWII and were given opportunities based on their overall merits, and not necessarily specific experience.

Too many college degrees in the workforce today as it is, and the cost/benefit ratio has seriously been challenged with the rise of tuition in the last 10-15 years.

Anyways, thanks all for your help.

Alright, so this is what it is. I called OPM and one way or another I ended up with the HR for the HUD in particular. What it is it appears, is that because my degree is not in CJ (because there really is no other masters degree that would fir the bill as the describe it - a degree giving some sort of investigative education,) you cannot use it to qualify for GS-9 alone.

Basically it goes like this - the OPM leaves the wording vague (probably intentionally) so that it says the degree has to be applicable to the job field. Well, they choose to interpret this as a CJ degree (there is no master's degree in law enforcement.) Why do they do this?

Because they already have more apps than they know what to do with and they have to find a way to thin out their pile somehow, so that is what they do. If the posting was for GS-7 I would have of course qualified.


So, I'm just trying to understand this: they still denied you??? That's BS.

So, I'm just trying to understand this: they still denied you??? That's BS.For that particular vacancy, because it was only posted for GS-9, yes.

I said to them that they could have just said instead that I was qualified but not competitive, and thereby not referred, and they never would have heard a peep outta me, but instead they actually went through the effort to say that I wasn't even qualified. Pretty lazy on their part in my opinion, but that is what it is. :nopity:

For that particular vacancy, because it was only posted for GS-9, yes.

I said to them that they could have just said instead that I was qualified but not competitive, and thereby not referred, and they never would have heard a peep outta me, but instead they actually went through the effort to say that I wasn't even qualified. Pretty lazy on their part in my opinion, but that is what it is. :nopity:

Sorry to hear, but perhaps it just wasn't meant to be. Something else will open up.

It sounds to me like they are only hiring a few people who have already "been selected", if you know what I mean. They have to find ways to get rid of all the other qualified applicants.