Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

I guess either LFL updated their website recently or I just never paid much attention to it, but since I was surpsised we can't carry maglights, others might be too.

Source: http://www.learning-for-life.org/exploring/lawenforcement/policy/p-ride.html

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Explorers are not permitted to carry offensive or defensive weapons to include firearms, tasers, nightsticks, batons (collapsible or otherwise), saps or sap gloves, tactical flashlights (i.e. large metal or other heavy duty material flashlights that may also be used as a nightstick or baton), knives with blades in excess of four inches, chemical repellents or electrical shock devices.

Just trying to shed some light on recent Explorer gear questions and make sure everyone is informed.

Stay safe,

-Ferus

I can probably count on one hand how many departments are going to abide by that. Whats the point of that restriction? Has there been a spike in explorerd involved mag-light beatings?:confused:

I've never ever heard of any Explorer using them as a weapon before. In fact the only thing that comes to mind at all with maglights is a certain biker gang filling them with lead and using them as a weapon while claiming it is just a flashlight.

Silly LFL... I wonder if they thought people were going to follow that rule when they made it?

I guess now you can say I told you so when a post loses it's backing because of unauthorized mag-light possession:p:rolleyes:

So the solution when someone passes a rule we don't like is to ignore it?

So the solution when someone passes a rule we don't like is to ignore it?

Apparently.

All joking aside, it's probably just a liability issue that BSA/LFL doesn't want to encounter.

The USAMPS specifically teaches in UOF that using a large flashlight as a weapon is considered excessive force. That's probably because it wasn't intended to be used as an impact tool.

Maybe you should just stick to Surefire. :p

What is the purpose of carrying a maglight? For illumination? There is a better choice is a surefire or other high powered light.

If you don't carry it to hit someone, then why not carry a better light?

Explorers should not act like wannabes.

I carry a surefire light anyway, so this rule does not really affect me. I just dont like the size of the mag lights, they are to bulky and I dont really want to have to mess with it everytime I get in or out of the vehicle.

So the solution when someone passes a rule we don't like is to ignore it?

Come one now, you know that's not what I'm saying.

I got my mag for free from a family member who's had it for 20 years. It's the standard for cheap, reliable, work lights. There's a reason everyone and their mother has one or has had one, and it's not for bashing heads.

But if someone would like to give me one of those expensive compact lights I'll gladly replace my mag with it. :) It just won't be on my dime right now.


What is the purpose of carrying a maglight? For illumination? There is a better choice is a surefire or other high powered light.

If you don't carry it to hit someone, then why not carry a better light?

Explorers should not act like wannabes.

Difference of opinion here, but it seems that the explorer who spent $80+ on a 150 lumen tactical light that burns through those cr123 batteries and adding another pouch on their belt is more of the wannabe (not to say they are) than the kid who uses a $17 50 lumen 2 cell mag that lasts forever.

I, for one, am not going to carry it anymore. As MPD mentioned it's bulky and awkward in many ways. I've only used it a few times and it was awkward to use too because of its size.

I will do my best to encourage others to not use them on rides... but I don't foresee them taking my advice.

Difference of opinion here, but it seems that the explorer who spent $80+ on a 150 lumen tactical light that burns through those cr123 batteries and adding another pouch on their belt is more of the wannabe (not to say they are) than the kid who uses a $17 50 lumen 2 cell mag that lasts forever.


You fail when you use extremes to make your argument. I have a surefire that is $35, 60 lumens (plenty of light) and last a long time.

If the rules say you can't carry a Maglight and you do so anyway, despite the fact that the other lights are better for the REAL purpose, then you're acting like a wannabe.

There are also cheaper hi-powered lights on the market.

I, for one, am not going to carry it anymore. As MPD mentioned it's bulky and awkward in many ways. I've only used it a few times and it was awkward to use too because of its size. Very mature of you.


I will do my best to encourage others to not use them on rides... but I don't foresee them taking my advice. Your best influence by example.

Haha, that is ridicules. :rolleyes:

Sent a text to my former adviser, would hate to see LFL drop the post's life insurance because of a silly rules violation.

I will have to admit that there are some really nice compact flashlights out there that don't really cost that much. An advantage to them is that they are light weigh and if you don't have a duty belt or holder for the light then they will fit easily in your pocket, usually the large one on the side of your pants.

I hope that by making this a rule with the Explorers that the LFL will also impose this rule on the Boy Scouts, after all I have seen a lot of them with some pretty big flashlights going on camping trips. And most of them say they will use it to knock some bear upside the head.

You fail when you use extremes to make your argument. I have a surefire that is $35, 60 lumens (plenty of light) and last a long time.

If the rules say you can't carry a Maglight and you do so anyway, despite the fact that the other lights are better for the REAL purpose, then you're acting like a wannabe.

There are also cheaper hi-powered lights on the market.

+1. :cool: My surefire light was about $50.00 and it is 80 lumens, which works great for me. The light has plenty of power and it is compact, I guess I never saw the need for me needing a maglite on a RAL. :)

Pelican flashlights FTW

I carried a Maglite at an event once. I set it on the table (that was full of explorers/Emergency Service Volunteers), to go take a trip to the Porta-John. It mysteriously disappeared. Ever since, I've stuck to pocket size lights.

No more Mag Lights but knives with 4" blades or less is ok? Must be the same genius who wrote the assault weapon ban... :rolleyes:

I was thinking the same thing.

Personally, policies like this is why I think that if a police department wants to establish a youth program, they should do so, unilaterally, and the policies be made up by the Chief or Sheriff of that department. An outside agency (Boy Scouts) should not be involved.

I was thinking the same thing.

Personally, policies like this is why I think that if a police department wants to establish a youth program, they should do so, unilaterally, and the policies be made up by the Chief or Sheriff of that department. An outside agency (Boy Scouts) should not be involved.

The rules are there primarily for insurance reasons. Explorers are covered by a $1million policy at a very minimal premium (something like $1/mo). They are covered through BSA. This is an abnormally cheap insurance policy for what you get out of it. Most agencies would not be willing to pay for a more expensive policy and would simply be more inclined to axe the cadet/explorer program all together.

If your post had 25 explorers and each one paid $5 a month starting this year, it would be about the year 2675 before you equalled the amount BSA is willing to pay out for a buck. (and just for fun it would be the year 18675 before you would equal the amount BSA would pay out should your whole post need max payout)

In turn BSA enacts these rules to lower the likeliness that their insurance will have to be used. In general, it seems that agencies are free to run their programs as they see fit but if an explorer is injured and in violation of LFL/BSA policy, they will not be covered.

I have never heard of a post losing their charter w/o a gross or overtly negligent policy violation.

Simple...a rule is placed into effect...you follow it. Otherwise, move on to something else that is less restrictive and more to your liking.

We all have to follow rules, some we don't like or agree with, but that is the way of life.

No more Mag Lights but knives with 4" blades or less is ok? Must be the same genius who wrote the assault weapon ban... :rolleyes:

I agree. The Posts I am in have their own policies prohibiting having knives on ride alongs, some still do but you won't catch me with one.

Well that's an interesting guideline. Personally, I'd feel safer wrestling someone without a gun or knife before I bash their head in with a flashlight. I'm a big guy and former wrestler, though not a ninja, but I feel more confident in myself than a big flashlight.

Maglights are useful because they are bright and cheap. When I'm getting paid as an officer, I will purchase a Streamlight or Surefire. For now, my Maglight and $10 small LED light will have to do.

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Actually, LFL insurance does cover explorers.... that may just be your department's policy that does not. I know this because a certain ranking Barney Fife was directing traffic when he was told he was not allowed to, and got his foot run over. The explorer insurance policy provided by LFL/BSA covered the hospital costs for Explorer Fife.

Actually, LFL insurance does cover explorers.... that may just be your department's policy that does not. I know this because a certain ranking Barney Fife was directing traffic when he was told he was not allowed to, and got his foot run over. The explorer insurance policy provided by LFL/BSA covered the hospital costs for Explorer Fife.

Are your explorers covered under worker's comp. too? I remember reading that in some posts' websites, that they are covered for "on duty" injuries. Anyway, I'm surprised Explorer Fife was covered, considering he was acting outside of policy.

We're not considered employees so I don't think we'd get workers comp. But I know for sure that I only paid $7 my first year of explorers and no more, and I'm covered under LFL insurance. Now I realize that is probably where the money the post is donated to by non-city-hosted events that we work goes, because it was a one-time fee, and it seems other posts have dues or something for insurance.

I'm surprised about Fife too. But I was not surprised that he got his foot ran over by a car.

Just thought I'd mention, LFL can't prohibit an Explorer (who according to LFL is still just a citizen) from carrying anything that they are legally allowed to carry. It's all up to the department policy on that one.

Yes, they can. If you are in violation of the LFL policy, they can revoke your charter. And as I have said before, if this happens, most agencies would likely just close the post rather than try to run it themselves.



Explorer's aren't covered even if they are injured while within LFL policy. Our Department policy states that if an Explorer is injured the Explorer's insurance carrier will have to cover it. I don't even know what the LFL insurance is for (I, personally, would get rid of it).

Yes, explorers are covered. That is exactly WHY they have the insurance. Your department's policy sounds like it's based off of LFL's policy stating that you're supposed to use LFLs insurance only as a supplement when possible. If an explorer has personal insurance that is to be used first, but if the cost outweighs their insurance plan, the LFL insurance picks up the slack.

Any small lights are great. A lot of online retailers have surefires for around $40. They also bring down noise made especially if your dept allows you to get out of the car on things that require stealth approaches.

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