Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

I was looking at purchasing an Aimpoint M3 for my SWAT rifle but have not had the chance to shoot one yet. We currently use the Eotech's and I cannot stand the batteries going out. The only question I have is whether or not the front sight is utilized with the Aimpoint. We lollypop the middle dot on the Eotech, but the Aimpoint looks like it might be too high to do that.

Why do you "lollypop" the dot on the EoTech? It is meant to be used independent of the iron sights. You may use your irons to originally sight the EoTech in (to get it in the ball park) and then fine tune it on paper, but the irons have nothing to do with it after that.

The same can be said for the Aimpoint.

Now, where the irons sit in the sights viewing area all depends on how you mount it. The aforementioned zeroing/sighting of the EoTech and/or Aimpoint only works if you have it mounted to be co-witnessed with the irons. Again, this all depends on how you mount it and there is an ABUNDANCE of mounting options.

I suggest mounting as low as possible, minimizing the distance between the sight and the bore axis... meaning avoid mounting these to carry handles (if you are unfortunate enough to have one).

Edited to add:
I have always had better luck with longer battery life on my Aimpoint. However, I prefer the EoTech for its versatility. The dot on the Aimpoint is 3 MOA, meaning it has a diameter of 3" at 100 yards. That is no big deal and makes for a fast sight acquisition when doing CQB. However, when trying to tag something at 300-400 yards, it covers 9-12" of your target, meaning you will damn near cover from shoulder to shoulder at 400 yards. That makes precision shooting a bit more challenging.

On the other hand, the EoTech has a 1MOA dot, meaning it covers only 1" at 100 yards and 4" at 400 yards. It makes for much tighter shot groups. At most any range. While the 1MOA dot may be a bit hard to pick up when doing CQB, the 64MOA (if I recall it is 64 or 72) circle makes for very good sight acquisition for up-close CQB.

All of our patrol rifles are set up the same and have the front sight on them. Our range masters set them up so they were lollypopped. I was planning on getting the m3 from Larue with the LT150 mount in 2moa.

If, when you say "lollypopped", you mean that the red dot sits on top of the front sight, and you are taught to shoot that way... WHY HAVE A RED DOT? :)

Once you have a red dot, the front sight is not a factor in using teh red dot. It exist ONLY to use in conjunction with your rear sight WHEN NOT USING THE RED DOT.


Where do your firearms guys get their info?????

Trust me dude, I ask the question everyday.:D I have told them countless times that they are making something more difficult than it needs to be but they won't listen. So now I am used to shooting it like you described. I'm looking forward to building up my M4 so I can get it the correct way.

And just so I am not mistaken on the Aimpoint. Wherever that red dot is, thats where the round is going correct. These guys have me convinced it needs to be centered.

-Ok, assuming you cowitness them (meaning you can see align the irons through the site), you can look through your sighted irons and have a buddy adjust the red dot until the ALL line up. Now, you will be REALLY close to zero.
-Now, forget about your irons and look ONLY at the red dot... more accurately, focus on your target with the red dot placed where you want the impact. Shoot.
-Finally, make adjustments to your red dot sight until point of aim is the same as point of impact.

I like to zero at 50. Some zero at 25. We could have a long dfiscussion about where you minimize POA v. POI, but we can save that for another thread. :)

Now, once the thing is zeroed, WHEREVER THAT DOT IS SITTING, YOU WILL STRIKE. You do not need to have the same cheek-to-stock position, etc. Just look through the sight, no matter how you can, hold the dot on what you want to hit, and squeeze. That's why these things are so great. You can shoot them with gas masks on, you can have a hasty shooting position, whatever... as long as you can see through the site, you are set :)

And don't forget, you shoot these with both eyes open, focusing on the target... unlike irons where you focus on the front sight, usually closing 1 eye.

Thats what I thought and I will print this for them and staple it to their forehead. I like my m4 sighted at 50 yds, but they like it at 25, and one guy even wants them zero'd at 10. I tried to explain the flatter trajectory but you know how it goes.

Really, 25 yards is not bad. 50 yards is just splitting hairs and tends to offer less deviation between the POA and POI for LE purposes.

Thats what I thought and I will print this for them and staple it to their forehead. I like my m4 sighted at 50 yds, but they like it at 25, and one guy even wants them zero'd at 10. I tried to explain the flatter trajectory but you know how it goes.

Your range instructors are idiots. Since it sounds like they did not attend a instructor school nor have a basic functioning idea of Eotechs or Aimpoints and properly sighting them in. Suggest they read the manual that came with them.

Lolly-pop it....and center it? Never once after it is properly zeroed! Never!

I

Where do your firearms guys get their info?????



I was thinking the same thing.

I am actually one of our range instructors, have been for 5 years. However we have to instruct exactly what the range masters tell us to.

I am actually one of our range instructors, have been for 5 years. However we have to instruct exactly what the range masters tell us to.


And where do they get their info?

How would they like to be confronted with information (as nearly any other reputable source would be contrary to what they are teaching)?

They get their info from themselves......my way or the highway. I have actually attempted to teach the correct way and was told if I did not adhere to their methods I would be kicked out of the program. Almost ready to say f'off...see ya.

Maybe I'll bring my m4 in without the front sight and with the Aimpoint on and show them.

I am surprised to hear this. There is a really good tactical community in northern Illinois, with some really sharp people who know their stuff.

...kind of sad, really. :(

My PM will blow ya away then.