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Agoss@bw
02-12-08, 10:46 PM
Before I go to training I need to buy some gear (i.e.pistol/holster/belt/cuffs/asp) and my question is this. Do hinged cuffs have that much of an advantage over chain? What do some of you prefer?
Blackgoat06
02-12-08, 11:02 PM
In my experience hinged cuffs restrict movement a little more than chain cuffs and tend to be a little larger so they are easier used on individuals with larger wrists...Due to the restricted movement they can also be more painful according to my customers...
I used hinged primarily...
Switchback
02-12-08, 11:08 PM
...hinged can also be a bit more difficult putting on a very resistant "customer".
I do love my hinged, though.
mobrien316
02-13-08, 12:28 AM
I carry the ASP non-hinged cuffs.
As already mentioned, I have found the hinged cuffs to be more difficult to apply to reluctant cuffees.
I do carry two extra pairs of cuffs in my gear bag, and one of those are hinged.
gringoscott
02-13-08, 02:56 AM
A-holes get the hinged.
Creeker
02-13-08, 02:58 AM
Prior to my going thru the Academy, I'd bought my own hinged when they first came out.
When they attempted to teach "Speed cuffing" techniques, I was faster than the Instructor.
Granted, our "cuffee's" were compliant fellow Academites... ;)
With the hinged, though, (at least on my first set) you need to be mindful when locking them both on the same object/wrist with the keyhole on the OUTSIDE, lest you can't get to it. You know how we'll play around with things... LOL
Creeker
02-13-08, 03:04 AM
A-holes get the hinged.
And see, you will be the envy of the jealous guys, too. :p
:D
gringoscott
02-13-08, 03:12 AM
And see, you will be the envy of the jealous guys, too. :p
:D
LOL! I guess the interweb has beaten me again by not allowing for inflection. I meant the A-hole bg's get the hinged. :o
Creeker
02-13-08, 03:43 AM
LOL! I guess the interweb has beaten me again by not allowing for inflection. I meant the A-hole bg's get the hinged. :o
LOL... Yeah, I guess I missed the inflection part :D
Valor55
02-13-08, 03:56 AM
The hinged cuffs limit movement. If you cuff them correctly with the keyholes up they are probably impossible to pick for all but Gumby. They are very fast on compliant arrests (ensuring they don't become suddenly uncompliant.) I've never had a problem cuffing combative arrestees more than the chained cuffs. In fact the chain cuffs always seem to be turned different ways and make cuffing harder because they have to be readjusted.
nadler20
02-13-08, 03:54 PM
They are banned at my department becuase they are too easy to break wrists with. I'll leave it up to you to interpret that as you wish ;)
jvale00
02-14-08, 06:46 PM
I carry both! Our issue is hinged.
bluelightzgrl
02-14-08, 07:05 PM
A-holes get the hinged.
Everyone gets hinged; but I'm just a witch like that. ;)
...hinged can also be a bit more difficult putting on a very resistant "customer".
I'll agree, but I'm extremely OCD about my cuffs. I carry two sets of hinged on my belt; one left side one right side, both are on cuff straps (I've got a small waist and need to save room anyway I can). No matter which set I go after I have them 'staged' so that I don't have to play with them in my grip to have the key holes up. This comes in extremely handy when wrestling someone; an experience I only needed to go through once!
mobrien316
02-14-08, 08:51 PM
One of the things I like best about the ASP cuffs (hinged or chain) is that they have a keyhole on each side. I don't have to worry about which side is up or down.
Creeker
02-15-08, 03:28 AM
They are banned at my department becuase they are too easy to break wrists with. I'll leave it up to you to interpret that as you wish ;)
All it takes is one time in some agencies.... :rolleyes: Probably have plastic flashlights, too.
I think thats why the "claw" was done away with back in the day.... Some Agencies are going to issue kevlar mittens soon, I am afraid... :rolleyes:
I would go with the hinged, better control even though they are a little more expensive.
Hinged aren't allowed on my Department. While they do give better control (slightly due to arrestees hands being closer together) they are a ***** to get on if your in a good old fashioned "Donnybrook" (fight) with the suspect. I carried a pair on my last PD and they DID come in handy, HOWEVER I maybe cuffed one or two people a year their (usually compliant). The current environment I work in is slightly different! :D
Hope it helps!
CCBlueMan
03-03-08, 08:52 PM
In my experience hinged cuffs restrict movement a little more than chain cuffs and tend to be a little larger so they are easier used on individuals with larger wrists...Due to the restricted movement they can also be more painful according to my customers...
I used hinged primarily...
And we all know that the bg comfort is out #1 priority! *cough* bulls**t *cough*
Valor55
03-03-08, 10:20 PM
Hinged aren't allowed on my Department. While they do give better control (slightly due to arrestees hands being closer together) they are a ***** to get on if your in a good old fashioned "Donnybrook" (fight) with the suspect. I carried a pair on my last PD and they DID come in handy, HOWEVER I maybe cuffed one or two people a year their (usually compliant). The current environment I work in is slightly different! :D
Hope it helps!
I never had a problem with cuffs being hinged during a fight. In fact I find there is greater leverage and torque with them. Much easier to control. The chained cuffs are always facing the wrong direction or get twisted around and are tough to control.
I never had a problem with cuffs being hinged during a fight. In fact I find there is greater leverage and torque with them. Much easier to control. The chained cuffs are always facing the wrong direction or get twisted around and are tough to control.
We just train to get the cuffs on....no wrong way as far as keyholes are concerned.
Creeker
03-04-08, 04:59 AM
We just train to get the cuffs on....no wrong way as far as keyholes are concerned.
The only time that I ever really sweated the keyholes was when I was screwing around or cleaning/lubricating them and put them onto the same arm... :eek:... and it wasn't necessarily my own arm... :o
Valor55
03-04-08, 10:51 AM
Chain cuffs are much more susceptible to being picked, especially if the key holes are down. Hinged cuffs with the key hole up I would say are extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible, to pick.
...hinged can also be a bit more difficult putting on a very resistant "customer".
That just means you have to be a bit more "persuasive." ;)
I refuse to buy anything other than hinged. I have a chain pair that was issued, but I have it stuck in a drawer at home.
Aussie George
03-04-08, 01:41 PM
My first dept issued hinged.
Now it is chained.
I miss hinged!
I nver had any more trouble getting hinged on than chain, but once on they were much more effective when hinged. In a fight, if you can get one hinged on, you can twist it (slightly) to apply pain compliance a lot easier than with chain.
Valor55
03-04-08, 02:22 PM
My first dept issued hinged.
Now it is chained.
I miss hinged!
I nver had any more trouble getting hinged on than chain, but once on they were much more effective when hinged. In a fight, if you can get one hinged on, you can twist it (slightly) to apply pain compliance a lot easier than with chain.
Exact thing happened to me. I broke down and bought my own hinged. I keep the department issued chains with me for compliant cuffing involving small wristed women etc. But 90% of the time I use the hinged cuffs.
Chain cuffs are much more susceptible to being picked, especially if the key holes are down. Hinged cuffs with the key hole up I would say are extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible, to pick.
True but only if they're not double-locked.
Valor55
03-04-08, 04:37 PM
True but only if they're not double-locked.
Nope, there's videos of a guy picking double locked cuffs. If you miss something like a paper clip or hair pin in your search they'll get chained cuffs off like nothing.
Johninaustin
03-04-08, 04:45 PM
Hinged. I'd also like to put in a vote for the oversized one's. Everybody is a porker these days. :eek:
Nope, there's videos of a guy picking double locked cuffs. If you miss something like a paper clip or hair pin in your search they'll get chained cuffs off like nothing.
Hmmmm....I've seen single locked shimmed before but not double-locked. I'll have to seek out that video. Thanks for the Heads-up....but hinged still aren't allowed by my PD! :D
Valor55
03-04-08, 09:14 PM
Hmmmm....I've seen single locked shimmed before but not double-locked. I'll have to seek out that video. Thanks for the Heads-up....but hinged still aren't allowed by my PD! :D
Technically they aren't allowed at mine either. :cool:
I never had a problem with cuffs being hinged during a fight. In fact I find there is greater leverage and torque with them. Much easier to control. The chained cuffs are always facing the wrong direction or get twisted around and are tough to control.
I nver had any more trouble getting hinged on than chain, but once on they were much more effective when hinged. In a fight, if you can get one hinged on, you can twist it (slightly) to apply pain compliance a lot easier than with chain.
That's why I like hinged cuffs. Pain compliance is a wonderful thing.
Two things that are slightly off tangent. One, do you cuff with the key holes up or down? At FLETC they teach us feds to cuff with the key holes down. Advantages/disadvantages to up or down?
Two, does anyone know of cuffs made specifically for those with small wrists/hands? I've seen oversized cuffs but never small cuffs. I've dealt with some Asians whose wrists/hands were simply too small for standard sized cuffs. I ended up having to put both wrists through one end of a set of leg irons.
Aussie George
03-04-08, 11:57 PM
We were taught to cuff with key hole down with the fixed.
If done right, you place your cuffs in their pouch/holder the right way so that when you pull them out with one hand, they just go straight on the correct way.
The logic I was told to cuffing that way (key hole down) was that it didn't matter so much when you put them on, but when they came off, it meant that the crook had to bend over forward a long way for you to get them off easily. This meant that they were in a very weak stance while you were taking the cuffs off.
If it was a totally compliant cuff and I expected absolutely no probs, then I might put them on the other way so they were easier to get off, but that was very rare. In fact I can only recall one offender I did that for. Also by varying your style you affect your muscle memory and usual technique. Best to practice a certain way to the point that you can do it blindfolded.
Also our hinged cuffs had a small hole to push in to double lock them. They cuff key had a small spike on the back of it that was desgned to be used for this purpose. I never used it. I always pulled out a pen and stuck that in there. If the crook decides to resist at that moment, I am not dropping my cuff key, but a 50 cent pen instead (that the dept paid for). A lot easier to find if dropped, and a lot easier to replace if not found.
Technically they aren't allowed at mine either. :cool:
Nice :cool:
Valor55
03-05-08, 08:37 AM
I was taught to cuff key hole up. They are much more difficult to pick if the suspect can't get to the key hole. I would only be taking the cuffs off in jail so if I had a suspect who I thought was at risk for trying to assault me I'd have plenty of backup standing right there. The really bad ones I let the deputies unhandcuff anyway since they have much better rules for going hands on and controlling suspects.
At FLETC they teach us feds to cuff with the key holes down. Advantages/disadvantages to up or down?
My instructor at FLETC taught us to cuff with the keyhole down as it was easier to remove during training. However, he also said that those of us with prior experience should continue cuffing in the manner we were accustomed to. I learned to cuff keyhole up for the same reason Valor stated: it is harder for the suspect to pick the lock.
Aussie George
03-06-08, 01:39 AM
I was taught to cuff key hole up. They are much more difficult to pick if the suspect can't get to the key hole. I would only be taking the cuffs off in jail so if I had a suspect who I thought was at risk for trying to assault me I'd have plenty of backup standing right there. The really bad ones I let the deputies unhandcuff anyway since they have much better rules for going hands on and controlling suspects.
I agree with what you are saying about the back-up. That is why we did it down. We had no backup. In the last town I worked at, you would be lucky if there was two of you in the cells at the station. Sometimes two of you and the charging SGT, other times, just you and no-one else.
But I guess, if they were really playing up we would take them to the cells at the nearby HQ (about 50 kms away)
Hinged are better for contol, if a wrist gets broken most likely the suspect was resisting to much. I would not recommend cuffs with keyholes on both sides as it is safest to keep the key holes up when ever possible.
operator_no1
04-24-08, 08:58 PM
Like Aussie George I was trained to have keyholes down and lean the suspect forward for removal.
Hey, if you think hinged cuffs are easier to break wrists with, have a look at the Hiatts rigid cuffs they use in the UK!
I'm issued with, and use chain. In other threads I've heard of officers carrying one of each and choosing which to use dependant on the perps level of compliance. Is this true??
Up to now I've only carried one set of cuffs, but I regularly end up with more than one prisoner so I'm going to re-shuffle my belt & add a 2nd set of cuffs.
I'm wondering if I shoud make that 2nd set hinged!