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jamesrwrightiii
08-12-07, 03:21 AM
Here is the situation...back in the summer of 2000 I was residing with my girlfriend in Pittsburgh..I had just graduated from college, and she was still in school. Needless to say, we both had a drinking problem, and we both did our fair share of bad things to one another. We were members of the fraternity/sorority system..my drinking problem was situational..once I got out of that environment I rarely drink..
Here is what happened. We were out at a bar one night..I was of age..she had used her fake ID to get into the bar. She was getting pretty intoxicated and didn't have any more money. I refused to buy her another drink as I knew how things got... She got angry at me..and went and flirted with some guy in front of me...a guy she had "Talked to " before..I got angry..and threw her fake ID in the garbage.(she had given it to me so I could hold it since I had pockets).needless to say..I got 3-4 hits to the face in the middle of the bar..then she ran out since she was underage...and could have been prevented from practicing her profession (she was going to be a pharmacist) with an underage conviction..I followed her out and we continued arguing down the street..she went to hit me again and I pushed her arm away forcefully in mid flight and she fell. It was not my intention to have her fall, but she lost her balance and did get scraped up....needless to say someone saw it and called the police.

They came..I did not want to get her in trouble so I said we were having an argument..they asked me if I had pushed her...I said yes..that was the end of it..I was arrested on the spot. I was kind of in the bind.I did not want to try to get her in trouble so I did not tell the police the whole story about her hitting me multiple times in the bar..etc. I am not sure what she told them..they separated us.

She did not get anything. I ended up having to go to classes..that honestly helped. I have learned to walk away from arguments..I made a stupid mistake by following her that night..I should have stayed at the bar..let things cool down..whatever..just not follow her..that was the dumbest thing I could have done, but nothing I can do about it now.


I had no prior arrests/incidents with law enforcement, and I have had none since then. Would this automatically DQ me from becoming a police officer? I was never convicted..never plead nolo contendre etc..if I thought I may actually be found guilty I would have had to defend myself and brought in what I would consider mitigating circumstances i.e. her aggressiveness toward me, but since I only had to do classes and that would be it, I didn't see the need to do that....Any assistance would be appreciated....

Jim


acreature
08-12-07, 03:38 AM
Apply. Tell the story, the whole story... when asked.

Simple Assault charge, Aid and Abet Underage Consumption, Aid and Abet Fake ID.

You have a good chance of being DQ'd, but you can still try.

Regardless of the Assault being "expunged", it still happened, and lying about arrests will definitely get you DQ'd.

JakeLock
08-12-07, 03:40 AM
I understand you believe you've grown and moved on. But I see two issues here for you. One, being arrested for violence. and two, you were in a bar with your underage gf and you knew she was underage.

I'm glad you've attempted to mature and move on from the alcohol and what happened that night. However I see problems, and this is just my opinion, that may make an employer look unfavorably upon you. You were arrested, and if she was questioned they know who she is and what her age was.

That is two hits, any sort of violence, and the fact that you knowingly allowed an underage person to drink.

Is it automatic DQ? I doubt it to be honest with you, but as it's been said before you'll probably be going up against people who are squeaky clean.

Your best course of action is to contact the agency you are applying to, tell them the truth (they'll find out anyway) and ask them what your options are.

Good luck.


jamesrwrightiii
08-12-07, 03:58 AM
I know...it was a very dumb move when I was younger and immature. No one really was concerned about underage drinking..not even the campus police..they would walk into a party with 200 underagers..everyone would put their beer down..they would walk out and people would start partying again. Only time they cared was if someone was fighting or puking in the lobby of the dorm.
I witnessed that dozens of times..


I am not worried about employers finding out..it is officially expunged...I have gotten plenty of private sector jobs all that required background checks.. and currently work for a large insurance company, but I guess I am just SOL..one stupid mistake..:(

mikecrazy
08-12-07, 09:27 AM
In New York that's considered a "family offense". Having been arrested for a family offense you cannot carry a firearm, ergo no LEO for you.

I don't know how it is in other states or where you're looking, but that's how it works here.

acreature
08-12-07, 12:08 PM
.......No one really was concerned about underage drinking..not even the campus police..they would walk into a party with 200 underagers..everyone would put their beer down..they would walk out and people would start partying again. Only time they cared was if someone was fighting or puking in the lobby of the dorm.
I witnessed that dozens of times..

Has nothing to do with what you asked.

jvale00
08-12-07, 01:15 PM
You can still be a fireman!:)

jamesrwrightiii
08-12-07, 10:32 PM
I actually can get a firearm permit..at least in PA ..I checked with the county sheriff..as long as the record has been expunged and charges dropped..I was thinking about getting one with all of the crazies out there..I don't want to become a victim. I can even become a parole officer-they do not count things that have been expunged..at least from the application..oh well

Roger Dat
08-12-07, 10:39 PM
Just remember EXPUNGED does not mean you shouldnt disclose it on a background investigation. Your investigator WILL find it whether its been expunged or not. Also assult cases are hard to explain away. Remember alot of the hiring process is to limit the departments liability.


Either way good luck, if its your dream give it your all but have a plan B. Also remember its not so much that it wouldnt DQ you but if 5 guys are going for 1 position and your the one with the assualt, they are getting hired first.

lax854
08-12-07, 11:48 PM
In New York that's considered a "family offense". Having been arrested for a family offense you cannot carry a firearm, ergo no LEO for you.

I don't know how it is in other states or where you're looking, but that's how it works here.

ohhhhhhhhhh loook at you! with your fancy nypd lingo. I like I like!

mikecrazy
08-13-07, 08:03 AM
hehehehe :D

I had collared a 19 y.o. kid for assault 2 on his live-in girlfriend, and later on when I was printing him he asked me if this would affect him taking the cop test.

Needless to say he didn't like my answer :)

lax854
08-13-07, 01:12 PM
hehehehe :D

I had collared a 19 y.o. kid for assault 2 on his live-in girlfriend, and later on when I was printing him he asked me if this would affect him taking the cop test.

Needless to say he didn't like my answer :)

youre supposed to say, nahhh not at all. Actually youll be more of a QUALIFIED candidate since you know how the criminal justice process works. HAHA

bigshow21
08-13-07, 01:30 PM
youre supposed to say, nahhh not at all. Actually youll be more of a QUALIFIED candidate since you know how the criminal justice process works. HAHA

Thats funny. I would love to hear someone say that.

mikecrazy
08-13-07, 08:40 PM
youre supposed to say, nahhh not at all. Actually youll be more of a QUALIFIED candidate since you know how the criminal justice process works. HAHA

haha I'll keep that in mind for the next time i'm asked it :D

semper_fi
09-23-07, 10:18 PM
This is not an automatic DQ since you were not convicted, but you will have to explain it very well. An additional problem that was not addressed was that you say you had an alcohol abuse problem. That seems to be a very big issue for your BI. If you mention an alcohol problem this is more than likely where your DQ would come from. It can come from your BI or the psychological exam. That is the thing, there are multiple ways to DQ you for the same thing. In the end it is up to the Chief or Sheriff once you meet the requirements for the BI, poly, psych etc.


Alcohol + DV incident = you better teach those skeletons to dance.

Good Luck

RO56
09-24-07, 10:45 AM
My first question is: Was she worth it?

I mean, seriously. Was participating in and supporting her actions (underage consumption of alcohol; fake or altered ID; etc) worth it in the long run, and is that they type of behavior you'd condone if you were hiring police cadets?

Point being: If being involved in LE is in your long-term plan, you need to learn to think, act, and make choices for the future, not just for the present.

The bottom line is: there is no cut and dry answer. It's all about your competition, and it's all about the department. Some departments may cut slack where others won't. Fewer will (need to) cut you some slack when your competition doesn't have your baggage.

I bet she's long gone, too.

mcsap
09-25-07, 03:10 AM
This is not an automatic DQ since you were not convicted, but you will have to explain it very well. An additional problem that was not addressed was that you say you had an alcohol abuse problem. That seems to be a very big issue for your BI. If you mention an alcohol problem this is more than likely where your DQ would come from. It can come from your BI or the psychological exam. That is the thing, there are multiple ways to DQ you for the same thing. In the end it is up to the Chief or Sheriff once you meet the requirements for the BI, poly, psych etc.


Alcohol + DV incident = you better teach those skeletons to dance.

Good Luck

Try again SF. A plea of Nolo IS considered a plea of GUILTY which is legally the same as being convicted. So he WAS convicted of Simple Assault , Domestic Violence. His criminal history is permanent. His arrest file at the PD is what is gone.

If he were to file for a carry permit , he could not say he was never arrested. Same for any LE/gov't job. The private sector would not be able to find anything out on him though.

semper_fi
09-25-07, 02:32 PM
I believe he said that he was never convicted and didnt plead nolo contendre. I got the impression that the charge was dropped and the arrest was expunged. If this is the case it is not an automatic DQ. The original post was not clear as to the status of the charge. It could have been placed on the stet doc etc. I just cant be sure based on the information he provided. Maybe he can clear it up for us.

johnnydoe143
10-09-07, 12:38 AM
It's too bad you didn't bring a case against her. I'm sure there is a statute of limitation for your case which is most likely expired since this happened in 2000.