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View Full Version : ticket after an accident


lax854
03-13-07, 10:20 AM
perhaps this is a state to state difference but i was taking a police report for an accident that happened the other night. Well a livery cab was involved with a passenge vehicle. The livery was unlicensed by dmv and by the taxi limosine comp. etc. However, as my sgt came by i wanted to know if we could give him a ticket for blowing a stop sign as well. I didnt witness it but others did and the driver admitted to it. But the sgt said we couldnt bc we didnt witness it which makes sense since violations in nys have to be witnessed. So my question is this, is it different from state to state bc i remember alot of members coming on here saying i got this ticket after an accident?


phantasm
03-13-07, 10:31 AM
The only summons that I will issue at an accident that I don't observe would be unlicensed, unregistered, or uninsured, or some other type of non-moving violation. I'm not trained in accident investigation, and cannot testify to events not occuring in front of me. The one time I did observe an accident, AND wrote the summonses, the guy made an illegal turn, sideswiped another vehicle, then fled the scene (I told the 2nd vehicle to follow me and stopped the vehicle a few blocks away). I had enough evidence of both the accident (paint from each vehicle on the other vehicle), and the 2nd driver's statement that his vehicle had been struck, AND I observed the infraction that caused the accident.

No I would not write a stop sign violation if I did not observe it. I might add it as an additional arrest charge if the driver was DWI though.

ChesCopPodz
03-13-07, 11:31 AM
If i didn't witness the actual running of the stop sign, I'd probably charge for fail to yield right of way. Easier to prove


Drew27k9
03-13-07, 11:36 AM
In Pennsylvania, we can write a citation on information received if the person who witnessed the violation will testify at court.

Toeknee112
03-13-07, 11:37 AM
LAX854, are you an LEO? :confused:

Super Six 5
03-13-07, 12:43 PM
Toe - He's an NYPD rook and if my memory serves me correctly, Joey verified him and placed him on the list(in the verified general topic section) to receive his tag.

vengeance05
03-13-07, 01:01 PM
perhaps this is a state to state difference but i was taking a police report for an accident that happened the other night. Well a livery cab was involved with a passenge vehicle. The livery was unlicensed by dmv and by the taxi limosine comp. etc. However, as my sgt came by i wanted to know if we could give him a ticket for blowing a stop sign as well. I didnt witness it but others did and the driver admitted to it. But the sgt said we couldnt bc we didnt witness it which makes sense since violations in nys have to be witnessed. So my question is this, is it different from state to state bc i remember alot of members coming on here saying i got this ticket after an accident?

Yes, in New York you can write a ticket for a traffic infraction that you did not witness. You still need PC for the B. If there are witness statements and the driver's spontaneous utterance that can be used against him at traffic trial. You can cite him for: Unlicensed Operator, No Hack License, Failure to Yield Right of Way and Disobey Steady Red Light.

On the MV-104A you put in the codes for the causes of the accident even though you did not witness it. A good example would be Speed Unsafe. Same thing for the ticket. Based upon the damage, operator/witness statements and your experience as a Police Officer you can determine what the cause of the accident was. This is all admissible in court.

mcsap
03-13-07, 01:28 PM
In Pennsylvania, we can write a citation on information received if the person who witnessed the violation will testify at court.

Absolutely !!!

mobrien316
03-13-07, 02:13 PM
I have arrested people for negligent homicide with a motor vehicle after an accident, and I did not witness the accident. That was done on a warrant, of course.

On a more routine basis I issue tickets at accidents all the time without seeing the violation occur. If I can prove a violation occurred I will issue the ticket.

phantasm
03-13-07, 02:50 PM
In Pennsylvania, we can write a citation on information received if the person who witnessed the violation will testify at court.

In NYC a stop sign (or a red light violation) has a very strict set of requirements in order to get a conviction, that i wouldn't trust in the hands of a civilian witness.

SeVere
03-13-07, 03:32 PM
In IL we can cite if the person who witnessed the violation is willing to testify to the violation in court.

lax854
03-13-07, 04:36 PM
LAX854, are you an LEO? :confused:

yep toe. Work in queens! Thanks everyone for the responses. I was just alil curious how other states dealt with those types of infractions not being witnesssed by the officers. Interesting note, i was watching beach patrol on court tv. They actually had witnesses sign a ticket for a male urinating in public on the beach. I wish it could be that easy in ny!

ParadeRest
03-15-07, 09:45 PM
Only highway can issue summonses for violations resulting in an accident.

ChesCopPodz
03-15-07, 09:52 PM
In NYC a stop sign (or a red light violation) has a very strict set of requirements in order to get a conviction, that i wouldn't trust in the hands of a civilian witness.


Ours aren't too strict, but a citizen coming in and testifying that the other driver ran the red light is harder than me saying someone ran a red light because I have a track record of using the same system for determining red light infractions. Look at light change, look directly at white stop bar, if car is behind stop bar when I look, they get the ticket. A lawyer could dissect the testimony of a citizen with no training or experience monitoring red lights without too much hassle, which could get the cite tossed, which could end up with me going to a civil trial because once the cite is dropped, the insurance company says the person isn't at fault and a lot of BS happens.

I write fail to yield and it doesnt matter if a stop sign or red light was run

DeltaV
03-15-07, 10:35 PM
Like pretty much everyone else, we write citations for traffic offenses we did not witness if they cause a crash. If the cited individual wants to take it to court, subpoenas are issued to the other involved parties in the crash and they go tell their side of the story. I won't even show up. Policy actually requires my agency to write a citation to the at fault driver whenever we take a crash report unless we just can't figure out what happened.

phantasm
03-16-07, 12:35 AM
Only highway can issue summonses for violations resulting in an accident.

not true, but anything other than equipment/paperwork would be difficult to win in the city AABs.

scott715us
03-16-07, 05:24 AM
In TN, we can cite for violations not committed in our presence. Failure to yield and following too close are the more common ones. We can also have the driver/witness sign as prosecutor on the citation. Basically if this happens, it's one word against the other's in front of the judge in traffic court. Based on the evidence and testimony, the judge will decide.

vengeance05
03-16-07, 08:16 PM
Only highway can issue summonses for violations resulting in an accident.

No, NYPD Highway doesn't have extra police powers. Any police officer in NY can write a ticket at an accident scene, provided it's within their GAOE (you know the deal). ;)

Stan Switek
03-16-07, 08:48 PM
The State of Ca requires a certain amout of accident investigation training to issue citations at he scene of accidents. I think it is or was 80 hours. In addition to unlicensed driver, no insurance etc, if we had a wit or other evidence, we could cite for the primary colision factor & any other associated factors our investigation found appropriate.