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View Full Version : What's a BOLO?!


scarlet_tunic
12-20-06, 05:50 PM
Sometimes it's just wise to pick your battles, ya know?

(Sorry if this is a repost)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUMJLOtf-FM&mode=related&search=


North Patrol
12-20-06, 06:06 PM
2 things with that video clip bother me. 1. the officer could have just said that a "BOLO" means to be on the lookout for.... How hard would that have been. Yeah then he would probubly have found something else to argue with him about but maybe not. We will never know.

The 2nd thing is one of my biggest pet peeves. When an Officer pulls his weapon to intimidate the person knowing full well that he is not going to use it. The guy called his bluff and he ended up spraying him. Why didn't he pull his spray first? A firearm is only drawn to be used and only used to kill, sorry politicly correct, used to stop the aggression! Don't pull your weapon to try and bluff or scare the person into following your commands.

If you feel like bluffing play poker! Rant over.

scarlet_tunic
12-20-06, 06:17 PM
2 things with that video clip bother me. 1. the officer could have just said that a "BOLO" means to be on the lookout for.... How hard would that have been. Yeah then he would probubly have found something else to argue with him about but maybe not. We will never know.

The 2nd thing is one of my biggest pet peeves. When an Officer pulls his weapon to intimidate the person knowing full well that he is not going to use it. The guy called his bluff and he ended up spraying him. Why didn't he pull his spray first? A firearm is only drawn to be used and only used to kill, sorry politicly correct, used to stop the aggression! Don't pull your weapon to try and bluff or scare the person into following your commands.

If you feel like bluffing play poker! Rant over.

Being the armchair, non-verified, gonna-be, I agree with you (if that means anything). I did want to point out that he sort of did say what BOLO meant ("It means I was looking for your vehicle" or something to that extent). Course, the asshat in the SUV was pretty drunk and maybe didn't catch that, or just wanted to stall.


North Patrol
12-20-06, 06:25 PM
I agree with you, as the armchair quarterback we all seem pretty smart. Who knows maybe the officer felt like his life was in danger or he had ifo the we are not aware of. Like the report said he might have a weapon in the vehicle. Who knows. And more than likely anything the officer would have said would probubly have lead to another argument. Boy I love drunks!

Coastie 585
12-20-06, 06:57 PM
The 2nd thing is one of my biggest pet peeves. When an Officer pulls his weapon to intimidate the person knowing full well that he is not going to use it.

Another thing is that the Officer was not at deadly dorce. If that guy wanted to charge the officer the officer would not have been able to shoot the guy. The cop would have been screwed if anything had happened.

But as always, we don't know everything about the call, the suspects history, etc.

Taxx
12-20-06, 11:27 PM
Adding to the things that bother people about the video......1)It REALLY bothers me when officers (Police & Corrections) have their cuffs out before they have someone in control (CREST)...2) And as hit on before....pepper spray and a pistol? Hand in hand? Transference anyone?

Twelve Volt Man
12-20-06, 11:36 PM
Pointing your weapon at someone, when you have no legal justification to use it, is like threatening to arrest someone for something you can't arrest them for. When they call your bluff, you look like chump, and have lost any semblance of authority you previously had.

MCSD
12-20-06, 11:49 PM
Adding to the things that bother people about the video......1)It REALLY bothers me when officers (Police & Corrections) have their cuffs out before they have someone in control (CREST)...2) And as hit on before....pepper spray and a pistol? Hand in hand? Transference anyone?

+1

Itll be a cold day in hell before I have those cuffs out before I have a guy under control. Last thing I want is them snatching them out of my hand and using them as a weapon on me. I have seen some pretty BAD injuries stemming from some eone getting ahold of cuffs.
As for him having his side arm out and his spray? BIG no no. Exactly what you said Taxx, transference. You NEVER hold a discharge weapon (tazzer, OC, other Less Lethals) when you have your side arm drawn, just for that reason.

Now GRANTED, we do not know the facts behind the call, he could have had a weapon inn the vehicle, and it looked to me that the officer drew his weapon after the suspect went back to the car...... but as soon as he pulled the spray he should have had his weapon in his holster.........thats just how I was taught.

DB839282
12-21-06, 12:18 AM
Funny thing I noticed.

You're all saying the cop screwed up and in this incident the large majority of all the comments on that video are pro-police.

But when the video shows a cop doing everything right and by the book (usually the taser videos) the majority of the people always have anti-police things to say.

I guess it's not funny, but just more strange.

ChesCopPodz
12-21-06, 12:25 AM
The difference in that is this: the majority of people who have anti-police things to say about a taser incident are ignorant. Not necessarily stupid (although usually) but ignorant about how things like that work. We aren't.

Taxx
12-21-06, 12:32 AM
Funny thing I noticed.

You're all saying the cop screwed up and in this incident the large majority of all the comments on that video are pro-police.

But when the video shows a cop doing everything right and by the book (usually the taser videos) the majority of the people always have anti-police things to say.

I guess it's not funny, but just more strange.

As cops, I believe that we are allowed to scrutinize the tactics used by other police officers. Thus we must be prepared to receive criticism for our own actions. We are not all taught the same, but I would think that most of us are. The cop did not "screw up" as to say he didn't have a legal justification to arrest the subject. We were making points (armchair quarterbacking someone put it) about the tactics used to make the arrest. In my honest opinion the officer making the arrest didn't know what BOLO stood for. It was his back-up that arrived that told the arrestee what it meant. As far the arresting officer knew it just meant "DANGER MR. ROBINSON". Besides when you know that sh-- is hitting the fan, you start to do weird things and forget simple things. That is why you practice things until you don't have to think about them. Pulling my gun would not have been my first choice, but if I screwed up and pulled it out, I know I don't have to necessarily have to shoot him with it to get the desired results. Anyone heard of 'brace contact' DTs?

As far as the video commentary being pro police. They should be even if the cop isn't using the best tactics in our mind. Hell, when I watch geezer golf (the senior tour) I think those guys are fantastic, but my brother in-law, who is a better than scratch golfer, has all sorts of tidbits to say about their play.

Mike Romeo
12-21-06, 12:33 AM
Pointing your weapon at someone, when you have no legal justification to use it, is like threatening to arrest someone for something you can't arrest them for. When they call your bluff, you look like chump, and have lost any semblance of authority you previously had.

I've gone straight to OC or ASP if I felt that soft or hard empty hand techniques wouldn't work. I'm not one to stand there looking around and swing my arms back and forth, telegraphing a lack of confidence to a suspect either. And I'd definitely never turn my back on a suspect.

One drunk guy in particular I delt with Friday, December 8th of this year, charged at me yelling, "What are you gonna do, shoot me?" He was more than ready to fight me, and he managed to push me to the ground. He was about twice my size, so........ he went to jail with a case of red eye. :) He got charged with assaulting a police officer, resisting arrest, and drunk in public. Taunting him with a gun would have only wasted my time because I couldn't have legally used it.

Don't get me wrong, placing people at gunpoint is something I do on a pretty regular basis in the high crime area I patrol. But not just because they are intoxicated and not complying with verbal commands.

DB839282
12-21-06, 12:43 AM
As cops, I believe that we are allowed to scrutinize the tactics used by other police officers. Thus we must be prepared to receive criticism for our own actions. We are not all taught the same, but I would think that most of us are. The cop did not "screw up" as to say he didn't have a legal justification to arrest the subject. We were making points (armchair quarterbacking someone put it) about the tactics used to make the arrest. In my honest opinion the officer making the arrest didn't know what BOLO stood for. It was his back-up that arrived that told the arrestee what it meant. As far the arresting officer knew it just meant "DANGER MR. ROBINSON". Besides when you know that sh-- is hitting the fan, you start to do weird things and forget simple things. That is why you practice things until you don't have to think about them. Pulling my gun would not have been my first choice, but if I screwed up and pulled it out, I know I don't have to necessarily have to shoot him with it to get the desired results. Anyone heard of 'brace contact' DTs?



I didnt mean anything by it.

Ken K
12-21-06, 01:08 AM
I thought a bolo was a tie.


Specializing in Western Bolo Ties that are hand made with Sterling Silver and natural stones: Black Jade, Green Jade, Montana Moss Agate, Lapis, Turquoise and other stones. All of the Bolo Ties are signed by myself, "RLS3"

hitnrun
12-21-06, 06:54 AM
"I found out what a BOLO is! DAMN!"

:D

BWHAHAHAHHAHA....Good stuff.

mxwelch
12-21-06, 07:40 AM
I remember a BOLO being somone who failed to qualify at the rifle range. Don't ask me what it stood for.:D


Come on, all the guy wanted to know was what a BOLO was.:p

ObMax1212
12-21-06, 07:53 AM
I don't claim to be some sort of tactical expert, but that officer doesn't seem to have been trained very well (or he just ignores his training). Besides the fact that he *edit* probably could have avoided the entire situation by just telling the obviously agitated man what he wanted to know, the way he approached him left him wide open for a punch to the face. I'm not trying to monday morning quarterback him, but that is just my opinion.

coucousis
12-21-06, 08:13 AM
Well... I would have done things differently but yet we don't know the history of the suspect.

I personnally beleive that we should'nt crucify that officer so fast... I think that is front approach trying to pick the suspect arms was unnapropriate while solo.

He took his weapon out while he was a few feet away and .... if the suspect would have drawn a weapon fast... We would all be sitting here stating that the officer did fine by being ready for the worst....

We don't know the suspect history and yes I could have taken my weapon out upon a dangerous individual that have history and is on the Lookout!

The move to pepper spray the suspect was carefully done! Actually I think that the fact that the officer drew his firearm actually prevented the assault of the officer as It looks like the suspect could have jumped on the officer otherwise. The firearm was certainly a dissuasive in this specific case.

Like I said... It was not the best approach... but hey!!!! It worked!:o

There is no way I'd start giving a judicial terms lesson by roadside to anyone. I think this officer was more then patient in his intervention. I my case I don't let anyone step out of their car unless It is my decision to do so. Should anyone step out without my consent.... Yes they are subject to be exposed to my pistol mouth.;)

Taz_bb2
12-21-06, 09:29 AM
But when the video shows a cop doing everything right and by the book (usually the taser videos) the majority of the people always have anti-police things to say.

The MAJOR thing he did wrong was to try and cuff the guy while he was still facing him. How the hell are you going to control a subject when the very things that will hurt the officer, THE SUBJECTS HANDS, are right in front of you?! You never telegraph your movements or intentions, and this officer did it by pulling out his cuffs while facing the subject, before he was ever under control.

And having his weapon out when at the most he was just argumentative is just plain stupid and asking for trouble. Even if the subject charged him, he wouldn't be justified in shooting him, so why have it out as a temptation to someone who doesn't give a damn?

And this video is a prime example why ALL cops need tasers. This incident could have been quickly controled by a taser, and he would have been justified in deploying it as soon as the subject jerked away when he tried to apply the cuffs.

chiefhuntr
12-23-06, 07:17 AM
I don't claim to be some sort of tactical expert, but that officer doesn't seem to have been trained very well (or he just ignores his training). Besides the fact that he *edit* probably could have avoided the entire situation by just telling the obviously agitated man what he wanted to know, the way he approached him left him wide open for a punch to the face.

I'm not trying to monday morning quarterback him, but that is just my opinion.

Looks to me like that is what you are doing.........:rolleyes:

Cat_Doc
12-23-06, 12:36 PM
I personnally beleive that we should'nt crucify that officer so fast...

I will tell you exactly what I would have done if I had been this officer's supervisor.

I would have issued a Letter of Counseling and sent a memo up the chain asking for him to be sent to the very first available advanced Officer Survival training course.

There are so many survival errors and lack of command presence I would have to write a book to list them all and why I came to that conclusion.

I would not care one bit if the officer got butt hurt and he would be reminded I would much rather have him pissed at me for writing him up than for me to be knocking on his wife's front door to let her know she is a widow.

Additionally, I do not accept that I am Monday Morning Quarterbacking. The video and audio is evidence enough for me to come to my conclusion based on experience.

I don't know how many of the LEOs on here agree with me, but I never really trusted a new hire until they had been in the mix and I saw how they handled themselves.

Any of you are welcome to ask Hound what I said to him the night he received his first punch in the face by a combative suspect. He was shocked by my response, at first, but you could see the lights come on and his aura of confidence balloon. In my eyes, he became a confirmed street warrior that night and forever gained my trust.

TPDHellhound
12-23-06, 06:14 PM
Any of you are welcome to ask Hound what I said to him the night he received his first punch in the face by a combative suspect. He was shocked by my response, at first, but you could see the lights come on and his aura of confidence balloon. In my eyes, he became a confirmed street warrior that night and forever gained my trust.

I remember that night well!! I was a minute away from a family fight where an estranged husband broke into his wife's trailer. When I contacted him he surprised me with a right hook to the temple, and the fight was on!!!

When the dust cleared (figuratively), the bad guy was in cuffs and I had a very bruised ego. My sergeant (know to present audience as Cat_Doc) came up and asked if I was ok. With a glossy look, I said, "He punched me in the face, Sarge." My glossy look immediately changed to shock when he replied, "Good!"

He followed up by saying, "Did it hurt?"
I replied, "Yeah it hurt!"
CS: "Did you get back up and kick his a$$"
Me: "I guess."
CD: "Then, Good!"

It took me a minute to realize his point (C'mon, now, I'm not slow, I was just punched!). But I have since enlightened my rookies with similar phrases.

Drummadude
12-23-06, 06:25 PM
Not to say I am an expert on tactics (which I am NOT) but I have two things to say.

1: Why did the officer just say "Sir, we've been looking for you" when the drunk started getting agitated?

2: When the pull-over officer was struggling to control the suspect, why did the back-up officer just stroll over leisurely? He was a little soggy at the midsection. How does he pass his yearly exam? Most departments have one and they, according to cops I know, criticise you if you are fat.

Darin
12-23-06, 06:29 PM
I don't bluff. Once they resist it's on. I'll strike fast before he thinks about what he's going to do to me. I won't play the - going around and around - tango.

Darin
12-23-06, 06:32 PM
Additionally...

I don't have a problem with not telling a suspect what a BOLO is. Screw him. He doesn't frikken need to know that. Once you tell him he's going to argue something else.


It wasn't tactfully sound but the bottom line is he got him in custody and didn't get hurt. We, as Officers, can learn from what he did and didn't do.

Cat_Doc
12-23-06, 06:40 PM
I don't bluff. Once they resist it's on. I'll strike fast before he thinks about what he's going to do to me. I won't play the - going around and around - tango.

That's the way you have to be to stay alive, Darin. Rock on!

A few years ago the FBI profiled officers feloniously murdered and by far the victim officer profile was one of being friendly, hesitant to use force, would rather try to talk things out, etc.

Hound got hurt, he did not give up. He got up and laid some whoop *** on the guy that punched him. His confidence grew in leaps and bounds and it could be seen by other ****birds on the street who decided it was not in their best interest to mess with him.

He won't talk about it, but I happen to know he and his partner got in a OIS in which his partner took a round to the chest in the very beginning of the firefight. His partner went down, but the vest saved him.

Hound did not run for cover, he did not freeze up, he advanced on the suspect firing until the suspect was neutralized. This is the warrior spirit.

The guy in the video would have been eating asphalt the very second he jerked his arm away. It would have been fast and hard.

I can't stand the crap when I see an officer "dancing" with someone and not taking swift and aggressive control. This dancing crap gets cops killed.

Taxx
12-24-06, 12:27 AM
I remember that night well!! I was a minute away from a family fight where an estranged husband broke into his wife's trailer...........


LOL.....That's all you need to say! We know what happens when a estranged husband and wife's trailer is used in the same sentence.The fight is ON!!!:D

I bet it was a single wide.


I know I will be offending someone...........:p

TPDHellhound
12-24-06, 12:46 AM
I can't stand the crap when I see an officer "dancing" with someone and not taking swift and aggressive control. This dancing crap gets cops killed.

Excellent point! Cops that "dance" tend to get hurt. The suspects know this, which is why they're dancing. They're testing the officer’s courage and skill. If they get away with it early, you bet they will escalate their aggression. The longer it takes, the more courage they get and the more tired you get. There is no time frame associated with the Use of Force Model (Continuum, for most agencies). Meaning, you don't need to count to five while dancing before slamming the suspect. The second the suspect tenses up in an attempt to resist is the moment you escalate to a higher use of force.

Some advice to all the rookie officers:

1) Know your Use of Force policy backwards and forwards! If you have any questions about it... ask!
2) Don't go hands-on unless you're prepared to win! If you're not prepared to win, prepare yourself!
3) Improve your writing skills! This will come in handy when you're writing you justification. As a Sgt, I read lots of reports that read completely differently than what the officer verbally describes.

LA5150
12-24-06, 01:56 AM
Yes, the officer came out okay in the end, but I had some issues with what I saw (as do most other posters).

After watching that, I know that I would have gone hands-on with the drunk once he started the "keep away" game with his license. I don't let suspects control the situation--it's MY show and I'm going to run it.

And if I hadn't stepped up after his keep-away game, I certainly would have handed him his *** after he assumed the classic "aggressive-combative" stance prior to him going back to the vehicle. I do believe I would've "danced" an Irish jig all over that clown's face.

Paul Hartwig
12-24-06, 07:42 AM
I agree with you cat doc

freshgirl
12-24-06, 11:32 AM
Additionally, I do not accept that I am Monday Morning Quarterbacking. The video and audio is evidence enough for me to come to my conclusion based on experience.

As a trainee in the police academy I appreciate the comments on videos like this from experienced officers. Our instructors frequently used videos to show us how they feel a call should or should not have been handled. They are a great tool and help improve tactics.
Even great officers make mistakes. A good friend of mine was killed in the line of duty this year. The entire incident is on video tape. Although I have no desire to watch this video, hopefully (once the trial is over) they will be able to show this video to other officers and recruits so that they can learn from it.

Cat_Doc
12-24-06, 11:45 AM
Even great officers make mistakes.

Yes, officers, agents, deputies, troopers, et al., are human. We need them to be human because of the required discretion in the big gray area between black and white.

Because we are human, we make mistakes. We can get lethargic, we can have a terrible head cold but we came to work anyway, we can be having marital problems and are not 100% on top of the game, we could have just gotten out of an butt chewing from the sergeant and are distracted from tactical training and warning bells, and unfortunately, we occasionally get murdered in the line of duty.

I used to pass around to my squad the annual FBI Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Murdered report which provides a synopsis of every officer murdered in the line of duty that year.

I wanted them to read it because it is painfully open concerning what happened and to me is better than any survival training seminar. The seminars provide sound tactics, but the real life murders pound home the errors made.

Now, I am not saying that every officer made an error. I would be fool to say so. There are ambushes, sniper fire, etc., that could not have been avoided.

You hate to negatively comment on a fellow officer being murdered, but it is wise to evaluate survival errors and strive to avoid them.

Darin
12-24-06, 01:55 PM
Great points Cat Doc. I've been guilty of using piss poor tactics. I try to learn from them.

If you have an in car camera get in the habit of watching your traffic stops.

Larrythetoggy
12-24-06, 09:22 PM
First of all Merry Christmas to all.

Working in the Traffic area of my dept and working solo most of the time, I have been in similar situation to the one on the video. Without criticizing the officer to much, I know most of us LEO (I know I am not verified yet) thought, how would have I dealt with this situation? With the beauty of hind sight of course, I think most of us would have done things a little differently. Whether it be with more assertive communication or a better use of operational skills and tactics.

Mate on the chances you are a member of this forum, consider Hound's signature 'Train for perfection luck is not a tactic.' Your training starts right on this tread. Listen to what these guys are saying and learn from your mistakes. We have all made them and been smart enough to only make them once.