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View Full Version : Hiring minorities only?


EHStaley
10-01-03, 10:24 AM
The local police department has put an advertisement in the news paper saying they will be hiring a few minority officers. First of all, I can understand the reasoning. Some of the minorities in my area do not trust whites at all, and trust their own race a great deal more. However, can they do this? I for one am for them hiring more for race relations (even though that excludes me), but if it were the other way around (whites only) wouldn't some eyebrows get raised? Isn't there some law saying something to the effect that you cannot ask age, race, etc. ? Anyhow, I just thought I would post and get everyone's thoughts on the matter. :)


Jcrazy
10-01-03, 10:28 AM
I would hope they were more interested in getting good applicants rather than only minorities.

EricTheBald
10-01-03, 11:32 AM
As a citizen I generally disagree with race based hiring, but I can see individual circumstances where it would be needed to achieve a desired and legitimate effect.
I would of course hope that the recruits in that situation were up to the same basic standards that all the prior recruits had to meet.


metallicat
10-01-03, 11:48 AM
That should be against human rights. You can't discriminate blatently like that against race.

Oldbillplod
10-01-03, 11:51 AM
Unless they call it positive discrimination, then apparently they can do it.

Finder
10-01-03, 12:03 PM
I smell lawsuit.

metallicat
10-01-03, 12:10 PM
I don't think they can do it. They can put the ad out, and only hire the minorities if they do it quietly, but this in blatent violation of human rights. This is the kind of stuff I hate about the race issue.

metallicat
10-01-03, 12:11 PM
Actually, does the article say "minorities only"? I think that would be the stickler. If it said "only", then there would probably be human rights issues, not if it just says they want to hire some minorities, because it hasn't totally excluded white people.

modeler80
10-01-03, 12:20 PM
Well donít you think there could be issue when you have an unbalanced department to community ratio?
It is the same with having female officers, certain races/sex can do things that your typical white male may have a much harder time with. Not that they should lower the standards for anyone but if the department needs to build up a certain minority then they should do it.

On the other hand should they raise there standards? There is a department around here that need to hire 20 minorities. They rose there standards for that hire, after they dropped them to what they where before. That is just as unfair.

Did the add say that minorities will be the only ones considered and hired? Iíve read many adds that say minorities are encouraged to apply.

EHStaley
10-01-03, 12:41 PM
I have emailed my contact at City Hall concerning the matter. I'll let you guys know what she says. Regardless I am not letting this be a discouragement if I am excluded from this hiring. I will get on eventually. :)

metallicat
10-01-03, 12:55 PM
EH, so you are not a minority I guess? I guess the police department has to decide whether they want the best guys, or do they want guys to get along with the public the best.

Stump
10-01-03, 01:44 PM
I don't agree with it, but I know it is done.
Around here, we have to keep a certain percentage of 'minorities' around in order to get certain funding from the government, special grants, etc.
I don't think it has anything to do with citizens trusting someone more, but politics and political correctness throughout the department.
NY state troopers have billboards signs here to encourage people to apply. They have a black male, a Puerto Rican male, a white woman, and a white man.. and the billboards say "Equal opportunity employer"...

txinvestigator1
10-01-03, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by metallicat
EH, so you are not a minority I guess? I guess the police department has to decide whether they want the best guys, or do they want guys to get along with the public the best.

Really, those are the only two options? So "the best guys" cannot get along with the public? And the "guys who get along with the public the best", cannot be the best guys.

Interesting concept there. Totally wrong, but interesting.

EHStaley
10-01-03, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by metallicat
EH, so you are not a minority I guess? I guess the police department has to decide whether they want the best guys, or do they want guys to get along with the public the best.

Nope, I'm a whitie :D. Please don't misunderstand, I am not saying a minority couldn't do the job. I think that a minority or someone who gets along with the public could very well be the best person for the job. I am merely asking if this is legal? I still haven't gotten an answer back from City Hall. :rolleyes:

1911
10-01-03, 05:02 PM
Where I live the city PD has a program that is solely for the purpose of getting minority canidates for police officer to a reading level where they can pass the test. Yes, that is right they teach them how to read so they can become police officers.

The sheriff's office in my county contacted several women in my classes at college who took the physical test and failed. They offered them assistance through personal trainers so that they could get in shape so they could pass the power test which is mandated in Illinois. They have to meet a lower standard than the men are given in the first place but that isn't enough. They need to provide someone to hold their hand and get them in shape. I am of the opinion that if they have to lower the standards to include you, you were never discriminated against in the first place. You were excluded based upon inability, not sex or race.

metallicat
10-01-03, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by metallicat
EH, so you are not a minority I guess? I guess the police department has to decide whether they want the best guys, or do they want guys to get along with the public the best.

I am just gonna keep my mouth shut, because I don't really know what I am talking about when it comes to this.

0pusX
10-01-03, 05:35 PM
Lets see should we hire qualififed people or people that look like the people we are serving. This has been tried once, Its called Benton Harbor, Michigan. I dont think any of the "officers" that were hired based on their race are left anymore. they have been "released" for several things, missing drug evidence, statutory rape, assault on a PO (yeah get a load of that).

just hire the people that can do the job correctly.

wolve
10-01-03, 09:33 PM
Dont know if it is true, But i heard that good applicants have been passed for someone who is a minority. Where i worked once, A state trooper who shopped at the store i worked told me that being hispanic can be very helpful in a selection process. I do beelieve that good applicants have been passed over because they were not minorities

0pusX
10-02-03, 02:18 AM
a special thanks to all the Liberals.

modeler80
10-02-03, 09:26 AM
good applicants have been passed over because they were not minorities

Does that mean the minorities that where hired where not good applicants?

Iím a white male age 26 and I have been passed over on lists for minorities, but in reality, we all had to meet the same minimum requirements to get on the list in the first place. I donít agree with holding someoneís hand to meet the requirements but if the department starts with #7 on the list because of race/sex.. Well so be it. There is a definite advantage to having a department which matches the make of the community.

madpup
10-02-03, 12:25 PM
Am I in the realpolice forum or in a racist forum?? (No insult intended to anyone)

Why is everyone making assumptions that most of the departments are passing up qualified white applicants just to hire minorities. As modeler80 said, Everyone needs to get on the list by passing the same standards. Stop making remarks without knowing the full details.
EHStaley, if the department said that they are only hiring minorities then they are in the wrong. They can only encourage, QUALIFIED minorities to apply. The (Qualified minorities) need to wait on the list like everyone else. I know of a lot of minority applicants that had to wait their turns in New Jersey.
Basically, keep doing like you are by finding out exactly how they are hiring this time. If they are going about it the wrong way, then you have options.

If I've offended anyone, SORRY, I did not mean to.

EHStaley
10-02-03, 12:44 PM
I still haven't heard back, but I finally got my last recommendation letter yesterday so I can turn my application in at lunch today (me = VERY excited), so maybe I will find out. I spoke with an officer this morning at the gym and he had heard that they were encouraged, but didn't hear "only." He said the state has done that before and will give minorities more points for qualification (to help them). He doesn't agree with that practice and hoped that wasn't the case with his dept. Regardless, he said he thought they were looking to hire 1-2 officers in the near future, I can only hope. Anyhow, I'll let you guys know this afternoon what City Hall has to say. Again thanks for everyone's input.

Barenaked
10-02-03, 01:14 PM
What exactly does the sign say. Does it really say minorities only or does it say minorities are encouraged to apply?

Norm357
10-02-03, 01:17 PM
If the sign says minorities only, then it is violation of the law right?

Norm

Barenaked
10-02-03, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Norm357
If the sign says minorities only, then it is violation of the law right?

Norm

I would think so. I have seen Minorities and Women are encourged to apply on almost every web page I have been on.

EHStaley
10-02-03, 01:23 PM
I'll let you guys know when I get back from lunch (when I am going to turn in the app.). I'll know beyond the shadow of a doubt then. I hope it just says encouraged for my chances and so the dept. doesn't get in any kind of suit from the sue-happy.

EHStaley
10-02-03, 02:30 PM
Ok, just got back from CH and they confirmed that they are NOT excluding anyone. Minorities are ENCOURAGED to apply, but it is definately not subject only to them. I am pleased. Also, they said I should hear from them before the end of the year concerning employment (awesome :D ).

modeler80
10-02-03, 02:34 PM
Conrats!
Good luck

madpup
10-02-03, 02:57 PM
Cool! Good Luck!!

soontobec.o.
10-03-03, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by madpup
Am I in the realpolice forum or in a racist forum?? (No insult intended to anyone)

Why is everyone making assumptions that most of the departments are passing up qualified white applicants just to hire minorities. As modeler80 said, Everyone needs to get on the list by passing the same standards. Stop making remarks without knowing the full details.


No, you're in a "this is the real world forum" where this kind of garbage (preferential hiring of unqualified minorities simply for the sake of hiring minorities) occurs.

This kind of crap most assuredly goes on. My friend who works at the prison that I'm soon to be hired on at has complained to me about this for the past 2 years. They specifically hire minorities and women just to "fill a quota". Doesn't matter whether they are qualified or can actually do the job. 3 months ago the prison hired 3 new C.O.'s.... one black man, one white woman, and one latino man. My friend has had the opportunity to work with all of these new hires... the black guy he said is "okay" and does his job competently. The two women however are according to my friend, "Too fat and out of shape to pass the physical requirements and would be worthless in any sort of situation that turns into a physical confrontation. They get winded walking up and down stairs and aren't the sharpest tools in the shed." He's friends with one of the captins (who is a woman) who is in charge of the selection process for new hires who has told him that she has been told by the administration to hire X amount of minorities and women and to hell with whether they can meet the qualifications necessary. If there is a white male on their waiting list that is qualified and can pass all the physical requirements he is to be passed over in favor of a minority or woman (who may or may not be qualified/capable) if they haven't filled their unofficial quota. It makes her sick to have to operate that way and irritates the other qualified and competent C.O.s working there.

madpup
10-03-03, 01:30 PM
That really sucks eggs!! Where I've been there really hasn't been any obvious things like that going on. What is the department's stance on the issue when the rest of the department brings up those questions? I guess thats when the lawsuits by qualified applicants pop up from. Thanks for the info soontobeC.O., so that we know that it does occur (hiring non-qualified individuals) in today's world.

Finder
10-03-03, 01:41 PM
I would wait until I got on the job, see things firsthand, then form my own opinions about the department.

Norm357
10-03-03, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by Finder
I would wait until I got on the job, see things firsthand, then form my own opinions about the department.


That is very good advice.

Charlie
10-04-03, 02:15 PM
Just an opinion:

This issue always strikes a nerve with me. You can call it what you want but it is nothing more than legalized discrimination. And discrimination IS discrimination regardless of what race or gender the person may be as far as I am concerned.:mad:

Without a doubt, diversity is an important issue in most any workplace, especially law enforcement but I also think affirmative action is a lot of wishful and misguided thinking. And, I have often heard a lot of so-called "minorities" don't really like the concept to begin with because it often stigmatizes them.

In my opinion, at least in my area, I have often seen and heard from numerous reliable sources that a number of agencies in our area apply a dual standard when it comes to hiring minorities and women. And, I have also heard the stories about very qualified candidates with college degrees and clean backgrounds being passed over so that other possibly lesser qualified candidates can fill the quota. I am certain this happens in other departments as well. And the sadest part is, I often wonder how many hundreds or even thousands of potentially excellent candidates are lost? Or, how many of these candidates get so "turned off" that they end up pursuing other careers instead? We'll probably never know.

Recently, this general issue has become a significant issue for a prominent department in my area. What got the whole issue thing started, very briefly, was an officer was hired with a criminal record in 2000. The department supposedly did not know about it. The officer in question also reportedly left out the fact that he previously had a protective order placed on him from another state AND, that he was subject to a murder investigation! He was also recently involved in controversial shooting as well. This issue has caused significant damage to this department's reputation & image as well as soiled the rest of the department's officer integrity. Now, as a result, the deparmtent is supposedly re-checking every officer to determine if they have criminal records and problems with their backgrounds. And they have a lot of officers to check! Sadly, this kind of issue is going to take awhile for this department to recover from. But why does it have to come to something like this in order for changes to occur or to show how flawed a dual standard system OR, a system that cuts-corners to push through a potentially less qualified candidate, is?

All I know is, when I dial 9-1-1 to call the police, I expect that WHOEVER shows up is competent and professional enough to handle most any issue or problem I expect them to deal with. And I have the expectaton that the department has properly and thoroughly screened this person as well. Quantity over quality is NOT the answer. The standards MUST be applied evenly and fairly to everyone. I think every responsible, law-abiding, tax paying citizen who really gives a damn about their community expects nothing less. BUT,...on the other hand....

Some communities will often get the kind of departments they want. It's really too bad but I guess we haven't learned a damn thing from a lot of mistakes we've made in the past. We still seem to have a long way to go.....

Bottom line: The goals of the "hiring goals" concept may be lofty and "look good" but, realisitically, I don't think it works and will never work. It just draws those lines in the sand even deeper.
--
Charlie