Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

I asked an officer how much longer she thought she would be tied up doing reports as our dispatch was calling for officers. She and her partner had been in for about 3 hours. There were about 5 other officers in the room typing reports as well. Anyway, she said "I'll be done when I'm done" and kept typing. However, I know this officer somewhat well and know that she's a little bit of a goof ball and always cracking jokes, very off the wall, so I didn't take it as someone who didn't know her would have. But the fact remained that I needed a more definitive answer. I said "I need an estimate, minutes, hours, what?" She said something like "I told you, I'll be done when I'm done." Now I was pissed and the whole room knew it as it got quiet. I said "You have until 10:00 PM. If its not done, save what you have and go back on the road."

I haven't had a chance to pull this officer aside, but I will when I go back. But she was clearly out of line and I'm going to tell her to never front me off in front of other officers again. Any opinions from supervisors here? I know I've taken a nice guy approach, but my message to her will be "do not mistake kindness for weakness."

I haven't had a chance to pull this officer aside, but I will when I go back. But she was clearly out of line and I'm going to tell her to never front me off in front of other officers again. Any opinions from supervisors here? I know I've taken a nice guy approach, but my message to her will be "do not mistake kindness for weakness."

Good call. Always in Private unless it's Praise is how I was brought through. Shows respect, even if sometimes it's not earned.

I say this as an unpaid and unsworn supervisor: I think you handled it well. If I was going to go more in depth than just specifying a due time, I might've pulled her out into a hallway -- or a similar less-occupied location -- so I could correct her in the appropriate manner without having an audience.

The way you handled it was okay, but I think it would have been better to deal with it right then and there....for instance, call her aside right after she fronted you and tell her what's up (away from her peers, of course)! In my opinion, if you let it get cold, your message gets lost. When you do confront her, make sure she knows, in no uncertain terms, that her behavior was unacceptable. Good luck!

You should have zapped her with your Tazer.:D

I think if you had pulled her aside privately right then everyone else in the room would have known your not going to take crap from people. Now they may be wondering. Although the fact you gave her a definate time to be done in front of everyone probably helps.

That's one of the hard things about being a supervisor of people you used to work with. Some of your new subordinates now think they can push you and get away with more because they were your buddies.

You might want to have someone else, perhaps a female sergeant, be present when you talk to her next and choose your words carefully. SEEMS like too many LEOs these days are quick to play the race card or gender card or file complaints for sexual harassment or prejudice or hostile work environment, ETC ETAL AD NAUSEAM! (and they're also not above filing FALSE allegations...) Also SEEMS like there are way too many LEOs with the "my sh1t don't stink" or "you can't teach me sh1t" attitudes running around... :rolleyes:

You might want to have someone else, perhaps a female sergeant, be present when you talk to her next and choose your words carefully. SEEMS like too many LEOs these days are quick to play the race card or gender card or file complaints for sexual harassment or prejudice or hostile work environment, ETC ETAL AD NAUSEAM! (and they're also not above filing FALSE allegations...)

BIG thinks this be good advice.

Supervisors are so sensitive and easily bruised :D

Just kidding - once may just be her letting off steam, but twice indicates an underlying problem that needs to be addressed, IMHO, and it's probably got nothing to do with reports. I've shall we say "dabbled" in supervisin' enough to know I'd rather not do it because of stuff like this.

I think your plan to confront it privately is a good one - She'll feel disarmed and not so cocky without an audience to cheer her on. Can't speak to the lawsuit factor... You could always plop a tape recorder on the desk in front of her like they do on NYPD Blue :D

So no one else thought the Tazer idea was any good?:confused:





:D

Well I think you handled it well J. But definately let her know that it will NOT happen again.

Samuel had great advise.


All this is from a non supervisory grunt so take it for what it's worth. :D

So no one else thought the Tazer idea was any good?:confused:
lol :p

Just expalin to her that she can not continue to act that way when its time to tend to the real work. If she has a problem with that then you need to explain that your kindness and respect for her as a fellow officer is not to be mistaken for weakness or stupidity. If she continues then i suggest you open up a can of whoop-***.....or a whole case of it. Put the foot down and dont be afraid of people who act like children , she might just be testing boundaries.

I'm sorry to disagree but if you disrespect me in front of an audience twice I'm afraid the audience would witness the wrath.

With that said I know two wrongs don't make a right but I would not disrespect any Officer much less a supervisor in private much less in front of others without ducking and waiting for the response so I think you were being tested and you did better than I could have done.

Jason, I just noticed that you posted this in the public forum.

I've taken my comments to PM.

Good call. Always in Private unless it's Praise is how I was brought through. Shows respect, even if sometimes it's not earned.

Good advice, but if one of my guys gives me lip in front of everyone else they hear about it in front of everyone else. Nothing like sending the message "this won't be tolerated." This is only for minor occurances mind you. If it's serious then it's the "let's go into the office" routine. I'm blessed to have a good bunch of guys under me with little problems.

I'm sorry to disagree but if you disrespect me in front of an audience twice I'm afraid the audience would witness the wrat.

I agree with this to a point (RP, PM sent). But, if you want to lose respect from the troops, let them see you lose it. You can do more by making them see your composure while you address the issue. I have no wrath, but I have a helluva sting! :D

As a supervisor, I believe that one should praise in public and preach in private. I also think things should be addressed as they present themselves. Using my logic, I would have immediately pulled the officer aside (showing the other officers that I will not tolerate the behaviour) and set them back on the rightous course in a nice quiet place. I also try to have another supervisor there as a witness, if it is possible.

Pretty good comments IMHO.

Maybe you could have had the best of both...just ask her to step out to a private area and ask what the heck is up with this? Approach it as concern for what may be going on with her, give her a chance to back down, and then set the record straight on respect.

The other officers will see that you have an issue since you acted on it, but any discussion you have with her would be private.

And I really like the idea about another supervisor being there if possible.

Being a supervisor would be a great job if it weren't for all those people you have to work with :D

For what it's worth I think it was handled okay. The point was to get the officer back on the road, not to have a mental arm-wrestle over authority. She backchatted and she knew and the rest of the observers there knew she was out of line and that there will be a follow-up but getting the job done still came first. It's a difficult one but perhaps pulling her aside there and then would have been seen as defending wounded pride rather than focusing on the work at hand.

Having said that I would give her a chance to explain (in private) what her attitude was all about and then think about the corrective behaviour.

I can say as one of the troops, that if I had witnessed that exchange I would expect the officer would be pulled out and talked to.

I know the rest of us would be snickering amongst ourselves about the ***-chewing we imagined going down out of ear-shot. Not calling the officer out to speak with them in private would make the supervisor seem weak.

I'm just speaking from the viewpoint of a slick-sleeve. :o

I see the need for a one on one , whether it was appropriate to do it at that time or subsequent to the incident, it needs to be done. You must rise above your " fellow officer " status and maintain your position as a supervisor.

Each time you do this , it will only make your next encounter easier because they will know and understand what you expect of them. Treating them with respect is certain but you must maintain control.

I consider myself the police of the police as I am repsonsible to ensure that what needs to be done is done right and proper. When the troops know what they need to do , they for the most part will do it.

I would have called her out of the room immediately and taken her to a private area. Even if I did not chew her butt, the other troops would get the message that you do not disrespect this sergeant in public.

I do not know if I like the idea of calling a female supervisor to sit in with me while I counsel one of my employees. This action may very well stir up more problems than what it was intended to prevent, and you want that employee to know YOU are the boss, YOU don't need any backup while counseling.

Sarge, I have experienced these type of behaviors and learned from them. I like to say the lines on my face are not wrinkles, but scars from being burned in the past. The more you get burned, you more you learn and the better supervisor you will become.

Never allow an employee to run a disrespectful debate with you in briefing or around other troops. Tell them you will speak with them immediately following briefing. If out on the street, pull them off to the side. There are some employees out there who simply thrive on trying to engage the supervisor with witty debate in an inappropriate manner.

You can speak with them in private in a civil manner, but when they pull this crap in public, it is time to establish your authority to prevent this type of disrespect from spreading to your other troops like an aggressive cancer.

The best of luck in the future, and the mere fact you are asking advice indicates to me you are going to learn quickly and be very successful.

I would have called her out of the room immediately and taken her to a private area. Even if I did not chew her butt, the other troops would get the message that you do not disrespect this sergeant in public.

I do not know if I like the idea of calling a female supervisor to sit in with me while I counsel one of my employees. This action may very well stir up more problems than what it was intended to prevent, and you want that employee to know YOU are the boss, YOU don't need any backup while counseling.

Sarge, I have experienced these type of behaviors and learned from them. I like to say the lines on my face are not wrinkles, but scars from being burned in the past. The more you get burned, you more you learn and the better supervisor you will become.

Never allow an employee to run a disrespectful debate with you in briefing or around other troops. Tell them you will speak with them immediately following briefing. If out on the street, pull them off to the side. There are some employees out there who simply thrive on trying to engage the supervisor with witty debate in an inappropriate manner.

You can speak with them in private in a civil manner, but when they pull this crap in public, it is time to establish your authority to prevent this type of disrespect from spreading to your other troops like an aggressive cancer.

The best of luck in the future, and the mere fact you are asking advice indicates to me you are going to learn quickly and be very successful.



Hi, new here, but wanted to comment. The above advice is very good. We had a dispatcher that had several head butting sessions with two of the older Sgt's in the past. They let him yell and scream at them when they were trying to discipline HIM. This carried on for years and when I became a Sgt. I had run in with the same dispatcher:

He comes to work shift A when he was scheduled for shift B. Dispatcher says he was not notified of schedule change. I tell Dispatcher he made a mistake and needs to go home and report for the correct shift. Dispatcher tells me he's not going anywhere and is going to finish shift A and then work Shift B as OT. I calmly (in front of other dispatchers) tell him it is non-negotiable and a direct order.

I leave the Dispatch Center and come back 10-15 min. later, he's still there. I call him to my office and repeat my directive. He gets in my face (lip shaking, fists clenched) and tells me again he's not leaving. I get even closer to his face and tell him he will gather his things and leave, then return for the correct shift or I will physically remove him from the building. He stood there looking at me like he was gonna try and throw one, and I'm pretty sure he was just trying to get me to put my hands on him.

Anyway, he thought better of going physical with me and left. And here's what the guy is made of: He calls in sick for shift B!

He ended up getting a week off unpaid leave and 12 months probation with stipulation that another incident with him would be termination. I have NO problems with any Dispatcher's now being respectful and staying on task.

Point is, the other Sgt's let him get away with so much in the past, he just thought he was in charge of how things were run.

Be sure your troops know your always there for them, but be sure they know there is a line with you and if they decide to cross it, you'll do what needs to be done.

Good luck!

coltjester

Tell her if she wants to milk things, become a dairy farmer.

Seriously though, the advice above is good. If I am supervising another officer who comes with the poor attitude, I don't automatically assume they are being a smart aleck for the sake of.

I ask them in private if something is bothering them and tell them it was out of character for them to go off, if it is.

As a supervisor (not in LEO) I find that you instead of calling them out in a group its just as effective to say "so and so in my office please" everyone knows why but they dont hear the content.

You guys get to come off of the road and write reports?

:eek:

Whatever happened to pen and paper or laptops with thumbdrives and a bright dome light in the closed bank drive-thru lane?

As a worker bee who has had issues with former co-workers(that I covered up for) turned bosses that joke around with you then write you up for the joke, I'd have expected a knot to be yanked in my kiester the second I hit the line.

Without an immediate "come to Jesus-Allah-Budda-John Smith" in private, everyone else in the room is going to try to push that envelope if they have a mind to.

Sorry, maybe I am just a hard ***, but you don't piss on my leg at anytime. I spent too many year's as a supervisor to let someone do so in front of other troop's or one on one. I took no **** from anyone and because of this reputation I had very little if any problems with anyone. All my people knew that I would be there for them no matter what the situation was and had their back on any bad call that they went on.

I would have informed the officer that this show of disrespect was on me this time and if there was ever another show of disrespect it would be on her with some time off to rethink her attitude and remember who the supervisor was that she in fact would continue to work for in the future. This would be done right there and with the other officer's present. I would also place a report of the incident in her jacket for future reffrence in case she decided to go any further with it.

Some good advice here. I'm glad to see someone else has to deal with the same issues I did prior to my retirement this year. Keeping all of the troops pulling in the same direction is like trying to herd cats sometimes, but it's one of the most important tasks of the first-line supervisor. One of the most damaging things to shift teamwork is when the officers start getting the idea that one or more of their members aren't pulling their weight, either by ducking out on calls or by taking inordinate periods of time on the calls they do take. It can really become a cancer if it goes uncorrected, and will eventually cost the supervisor his or her credibility among the troops. It won't take long for the cancer to spread and the troops who were doing a good job for you revolt, either actively by talking and working against you, or passively by simply slowing down their productivity.

I know this is an older post, so I'm sure the issue has been dealt with, but here are my thoughts - I agree that it would have been better to call her aside and counsel her privately when the offense(s) was (were) committed, particularly in front of other officers. That being said, it's very important not to let it go unaddressed, both for yourself, the morale of your team, and for any other supervisors who have to deal with her in the future. Those kind of things tend to have a very corrosive affect on unit cohesiveness.

As part of her verbal counseling, I would come to an understanding with her as to what my policy is on the issue at hand (both the report time issue and the manner in which she responded to you), and I would make sure she comprehended and acknowledged it. In my experience, both with my troops at work and my sons at home, I tended to get better results when I asked them to tell me how they could have handled the situation better, and what "we" should do to avoid the problem in the future. Usually they get the correct answer on their own, sometimes with some gentle nudging in the right direction. It's kind of a sneaky way of getting them to "buy into" the solution, and it seems to get better results than the old school way of just being dictated to. It also trains them to be better independent problem solvers. Then I would address the problem in general with the troops at the next in-brief (without mentioning any names), and make it clear what my policy is. Perhaps the most important part - make sure you enforce it consistently and without favoritism in the future.

Sorry for writing a book!

Lots of great advice here. The only thing I can add is not to ignore this kind of behavior. I once transferred to a new patrol division on a new deployment. Most of the troops on the shift were the same but all the shift sergeants were new to the division & shift. For whatever reason the previous sergeants were very meek about dealing with several problem officers. It was making the good officers miserable & sending the wrong message to the new officers.

All of us sergeants that were new to the division were what would be considered very pro troops. We had one very difficult officer who was so bad I’m surprised the guy is still on the job. His fellow officers didn’t even want him on their calls. Some of this guy’s bad behavior was flat covered up by the other sergeants because they didn’t want to go to the trouble of opening an IA case. They were lazy to be blunt.

Anyway, after a tough year of dealing with this guys disciplinary issues, I left for detectives. In the long run, all the problems were solved. My point is if the other sergeants had of done their job in the first place, none of this would have happened. You don't have to be a harass. Hold them accountable for bad behavior & reward good behavior.

I think this folder should be in the restricted area. It will promote more open discussion.

I'm sorry to disagree but if you disrespect me in front of an audience twice I'm afraid the audience would witness the wrath.

With that said I know two wrongs don't make a right but I would not disrespect any Officer much less a supervisor in private much less in front of others without ducking and waiting for the response so I think you were being tested and you did better than I could have done.


I agree with this. However if your Lt. is a is a politically motivated limp d*ck I can attest it will not go over well.