Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

Its funny that all this dust has been kicked up by this US/Mexico problem.

Here in South FL we hold the record for having more immigrants 51% than natural born citizens- mostly hispanic. I read it in todays Miami Herald.

You would think that there would be blood on the streets and chaos all across town. Actually nobody really cares.

Now the Mexicans are upset that Miami and its Cubans are not supporting the cause. Mainly because the Mexicans always support the Cubans, but Cubans dont want to bite at the hand that feeds them.

Another good point made in the paper is that...

Many immigrants are not Hispanic. There are 100,000 Nigerians living in and around Houston and thousands of illegal Irish immigrants in and around Boston. China, India, South Korea and Canada are among the leading countries sending people here. Many illegal immigrants are college students and workers who choose to overstay their visas.

Many people also bash language...

I saw a sweet black Chevy pick-up truck with a lift kit. On the back window it had a custom sticker made that said... "learn to speak english or go home"
also attached were 2 big American & Confederate flag stickers.

I felt like honking my horn and letting him know that if you really want to drive the message home about learning to speak english, printing it in english will not work, the people you are sending the message to dont speak english and probably cant read it, so you just wasted your time and money on that.
Also the country music he was playing was super loud and he probably would not be able to hear my honks, so I didn't bother.

Fortunatly for all of us living in the United States we dont really have to worry about the English language vanishing.

Language is not genetic. The Pew Hispanic Center shows that by the third generation, 100 percent of Hispanics speak English as their first and often only language. This is the precise assimilation pattern for every other foreign-language immigrant group in this country. (P.S. If you're so opposed to non-English words, you may speak the names of only 13 American states and almost no cities in the Southwest.)

My Family is Greek, My parents are both from Greece and I was born here.
I can speak and read in Greek. My cousin is the same as I. She can speak and read in Greek and her parents are both Greek, she was born here. Her 11 year old son does not know one single word of Greek. If that kid has kids there is a good chance that being Greek will be some sort of trivial cool factoid more than anything else. The fate of my children no matter how hard I try unless I move to Greece will probably be the same, and if not for them then for my grandchildren for sure. The same thing happens to Mexicans. Plenty of people have Hispanic in them and cant speak a lick of Spanish.

Americans FEAR change, but dont worry my fellow FEAR filled Americans. With every passing day other languages and cultural habits get drowned out and lost forever.

I have been reading and reading about this for a while. The focus seems to be on Mexicans that work in feilds. Sometimes other examples will pop up but feild workers and men sneaking over the border trying to make money so they can send it back to thier family is what seems to be the major focus.

I do not agree with illegal immigrants but I must give credit to where credit is due. I say BRAVO to those men who sneak over and try to make some money so that they can feed thier family. There are people that come over for other reasons, like to escape the law, or to just get into more trouble, but the ones that come over to make money so that their kids can eat get a thumbs up in my book. I am against hungry children, sometimes I skip lunch and I start hurting, I cant imagine going days without food.

Children need to eat every day. Do the paperwork for a visa to the US and it might take months or years. I dont know if they can hold off on eating for that long. I never hear interviews of illegal workers saying "I decided to sneak over to come work in the feilds because I need some rims for my car back in Mexico"

When our parents and grandparents came from Europe they did not need to wait to become legal. They hopped on a ship, floated over, got ran through Ellis Island and BAM they became Americans. They came over because they didn't have food, clothing, or even homes. There is no Ellis Island anymore.
The opertunity fortunatly is still here.

You cant blame someone for wanting to make it. We all want to make it.

I have not asked any questions and I dont want anyone to cut and paste a million quotes about anything I have said with smart comments and corrections.

There is obvously a problem or none of this would have happened. None of us here will be able to make a difference and our opinions really dont matter. But it is fun to atleast think we make a difference. This will blow over just like everything else and the media will pick another topic to get people all hopped up with.

I have faith in my Gov. I am sure they will do the right thing.

This is my opinion on the subject...... enjoy.

Feel free to add your view but dont bash mine.

Well said.. :)
I don't think I could add a thing to it.

I am against ungry children, sometimes I skip lunch and I start hurting, I cant imagine going days without food.

Children need to eat every day. Do the paperwork for a visa to the US and it might take months or years. I dont know if they can hold off on eating for that long. I never hear interviews of illegal workers saying "I decided to sneak over to come work in the feilds because I need some rims for my car back in Mexico"
As sad as that is it's Mexico's problem, since when must we feed and clothe every person in the world. If Fox spent more time paying attention to his country instead of ours it might not be as bad.


I have not asked any questions and I dont want anyone to cut and paste a million quotes about anything I have said with smart comments and corrections
If you can't handle a debate over some of your opinions then maybe you shouldn't post them. You have a right to post your opinion and I have a right to call you on what I don't agree with.


When our parents and grandparents came from Europe they did not need to wait to become legal. They hopped on a ship, floated over, got ran through Ellis Island and BAM they became Americans.
Maybe you need to study history. They DID NOT become Americans instantly. They had a period of assimilation and then they took a test. They were checked for disease. They were expected to learn the history, culture and language. If they didn't they were booted. Not everyone who came here was admitted either.


There is obvously a problem or none of this would have happened. None of us here will be able to make a difference and our opinions really dont matter. But it is fun to atleast think we make a difference. This will blow over just like everything else and the media will pick another topic to get people all hopped up with.

Enough of us are voters that we can make a difference. The politicians know this. Most of them have heard "Fix this or be voted out." Many seats will change hands because of this issue.


I have faith in my Gov. I am sure they will do the right thing.
They have a stellar record with this issue so far.:rolleyes:


Feel free to add your view but dont bash mine.
Disagreement is not bashing.

Bottom line is while I understand people wanting a better life but they must realize that we are a sovereign nation and we control who come here or stays here. Not them. America is the most generous country in the world but it's not a bottomless well. There are alot of them who come here to sell drugs or to gang bang, not work. Twenty nine percent of the prison population is comprised of illegal immigrants who were convicted of serious crimes when they shouldn't have even been here. I'm tired of paying for someone else's garbage.

Build a wall, kick them out, expedite the process and then we'll be able to deal with it the way it should be.

America is a nation of LAWS. By definition, the illegals are criminals. America neither wants nor needs more criminals. We have enough of our own. GA has a 88 million healthcare cost because if illegals, an 18 million corrections cost because of illegals. Care to tell me how this is good for America? For Gods sake, we have been invaded by Mexico and Mexico has not fired a shot. If you do not believe this is a war, you are either a fool or ignorant.

I have not asked any questions and I dont want anyone to cut and paste a million quotes about anything I have said with smart comments and corrections.


Okay, in that case I'll just say the only things in this post that you aren't wrong about are your personal experiences, and the fact that there are many immigrants that aren't hispanic, but that has nothing to do with whether or not people who broke the law to get here should be rewarded. Well, you are also right about many illegal aliens being people who have over stayed their visas, you know, like the Septmeber 11 hijackers.

Okay, in that case I'll just say the only things in this post that you aren't wrong about are your personal experiences, and the fact that there are many immigrants that aren't hispanic, but that has nothing to do with whether or not people who broke the law to get here should be rewarded. Well, you are also right about many illegal aliens being people who have over stayed their visas, you know, like the Septmeber 11 hijackers.

Its a tough problem, the amount of people we are talking about plus the amount of area we are protecting is HUGE. I dont think we will ever have a solid answer to the problem and the problem cannot be solved simply by the USA alone.

Its such a great day outside. I am going to go seal my driveway & cut my grass, for some reason I cant get a hold of the guy that used to do it for me. ttyl! :D

He's probably out protesting. ;)

When our parents and grandparents came from Europe they did not need to wait to become legal. They hopped on a ship, floated over, got ran through Ellis Island and BAM they became Americans. They came over because they didn't have food, clothing, or even homes.


My family came from Ireland. The US did not accept them with open arms. They told them to go home. So my great grandparents did what our neighbors to the south are doing. They snuck in. My great grandfather got in to Canada and snuck across the border into Washington so he could get a low paying job at a shipyard. He was an illegal immigrant. He held on to his Irish culture. My grandfather was born here and in his whole life never went to Ireland. He didn't have an accent, he embraced American values and traditions. He was an American.

I know that people want to hang on to their cultures, but maybe they'd be more accepted in this country if they stopped flying the flags and celebrating the national holidays of their homeland.

I'm perfectly content to drink my green beer on St. Patricks Day (When I'm 21 of course) and can't wait to visit my families hometown in Ireland someday, but that's just about as far as it goes.

Stop flying the flags, stop with the ridiculous stickers on the license plates, stop with the viva this and hecho en that.

I'm all for immigration. I think that they should make it much easier for people to become US citizens. I'd love to see all the illegal immigrants that are here become citizens and be allowed to bring their families here to become citizens as well. The more the merrier, right? Well, maybe not. But I still think that citizenship requirements should be lowered.

You wanna be an American? Great! You wanna be a Mexican living in America? Go home if it's so wonderful. I dont care what color you are, if you are a proud American, you don't get to call yourself a proud anything else.

Just my humble opinion. Which in the terms of most anything doesn't mean squat.

/Rant over. I wont say anything more. I swear.

I said pretty much the same thing on another forum and got labeled a racist fascist.:eek:

Go Figure.

BTW, my coworker is a naturalized American, Mexican by birth. He is bashing these kids taking to the streets and protesting. He feels the same way you do.

Taz

America is a nation of LAWS. By definition, the illegals are criminals. America neither wants nor needs more criminals. We have enough of our own. GA has a 88 million health care cost because if illegals, an 18 million corrections cost because of illegals. Care to tell me how this is good for America? For Gods sake, we have been invaded by Mexico and Mexico has not fired a shot. If you do not believe this is a war, you are either a fool or ignorant.

This is a fair point. Can you give me an example of a hospital that was forced to close it's doors because it provided health care to undocumented immigrants?

I particularly like your use of the word 'invasion'. Please explain to me how the definition of the word fits your usage. The primary definition of the word invasion as excerpted from the Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=invasion) website is:

The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer.

The reality of it is immigrants whether they are illegal or legal are a good thing for our country. Some of them may commit violent crimes but not nearly as many as those committed by citizens.

Another argument constantly heard is "They are taking American jobs". Yes, this is true. If the risk of an undocumented immigrant taking a citizen's job is high perhaps that citizen should have went to college? I for one have the security of knowing I cannot be replaced by an undocumented worker. If immigrants will work for less and do a better job by all means they should get the job over a less motivated American worker who wants more to do the same work at a slower pace resulting in poor quality.

Whether you realize it or not undocumented immigrants help not hinder our economy.

If immigrants will work for less and do a better job by all means they should get the job over a less motivated American worker who wants more to do the same work at a slower pace resulting in poor quality.

Whether you realize it or not undocumented immigrants help not hinder our economy.

So then, you're absolutely opposed to a minimum wage? How exactly do they help the economy? They help put money in the pocket of the rich by allowing them to pay a substandard wage and pocket the extra profits, thus leading to a greater degree of income disparity.

Every liberal professor I've ever had told me that income disparity is the reason the Bush economy is bad despite being good. Furthermore, the last I heard Americans worked more hours and were more productive than any other workers in the world.

As far as invasions go, what about Mexican military vehicles crossing the border and providing cover for drug runners?

So then, you're absolutely opposed to a minimum wage?

I do not recall ever making a statement in direct opposition of a state mandated minimum wage.


How exactly do they help the economy?

By providing relatively low-cost labor.


As far as invasions go, what about Mexican military vehicles crossing the border and providing cover for drug runners?

If you are willing to provide a source for this information for my review I would be more than willing to comment. Even if this is so, what does it have to do with undocumented immigrants?

Illegal aliens work for below minimum wage, that's why employers hire them, not because they're skilled super workers. As long as a minimum wage exists American workers cannot compete with illegal aliens. That puts potentially tax paying workers out of jobs (I mean income tax, not just sales tax) and on the unemployment roles and thus hurts the economy.

You can search this forum for the articles about the Mexican military vehicles. It has nothing to do with illegal aliens, it does have to do with our lack of border security and with Mexican invasion.

Duggery asked.

Can you give me an example of a hospital that was forced to close it's doors because it provided health care to undocumented immigrants?



I can give several, but you will have to wait till I get home this evening.


Duggery asked.


I particularly like your use of the word 'invasion'. Please explain to me how the definition of the word fits your usage.

It is an invasion wether you like my use of the word or not. Theses illegals are not here to assimalate or become Americans. They are here by their own admission, to re conquer. To take back what they consider theirs. Look at the recent protests if you do not believe me.

Duggery asked.


If you are willing to provide a source for this information for my review I would be more than willing to comment.

Allow me.

http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/6666879/detail.html

http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/6666879/detail.html

http://sun.yumasun.com/artman/publish/articles/story_20755.php

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=4053733&nav=14RT

http://www.kristv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4000105&nav=Bsmh

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/gbase/Currents/Content?oid=oid%3A71525

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20050705-110525-6663r.htm

http://www.newschannel5.tv/2005/5/12/2682/Border-Patrol-Takes-Fire-From-Across-Border

http://www.ranchrescue.com/images/border_terrorist_sm.jpg
Mexican soldier filmed by Ranch rescue on American soil.

http://www.ranchrescue.com/images/border_terrorist_sm3.jpg

More of the same.

I can give several, but you will have to wait till I get home this evening.

I am a little reluctant to believe that any medical centers state health care of undocumented immigrants to be the primary reason for closure. I will look forward to your examples of such.


It is an invasion whether you like my use of the word or not. Theses illegals are not here to assimalate or become Americans. They are here by their own admission, to re conquer. To take back what they consider theirs. Look at the recent protests if you do not believe me.

How can you honestly say that none of them are here to assimilate? You're speaking as if every undocumented worker has come forth and claimed intent to re-claim anything. I acknowledge the current protests but do not believe them to be a sign of an impending or ongoing war.

Thanks for providing the sources and information on border intrusions. I have reviewed each of them. The stories although compelling do not in my opinion signify an imminent threat to the U.S.

Upon reviewing each of the stories I was unable to verify that Mexican military vehicles were used to aid drug smuggling. I was also unable to verify that any Mexican soldiers provided gun cover to aid undocumented immigrants in crossing the border. Unless you can provide me with information that contains irrefutable proof that the Mexican military is aiding undocumented immigrants in crossing the border and/or firing upon border officials I see no correlation.

Upon reviewing each of the stories I was unable to verify that Mexican military vehicles were used to aid drug smuggling. I was also unable to verify that any Mexican soldiers provided gun cover to aid undocumented immigrants in crossing the border. Unless you can provide me with information that contains irrefutable proof that the Mexican military is aiding undocumented immigrants in crossing the border and/or firing upon border officials I see no correlation.
Prepare yourselves for a personal attack...........

Jesus, you're a Moron.

You don't give credit to MULTIPLE sources about the topic at hand, but believe, with arrogance, an ACLU report that the Police arrested a Teacher for politely asking, "Why?"

Prepare yourselves for a personal attack...........

Jesus, you're a Moron.

You don't give credit to MULTIPLE sources about the topic at hand, but believe, with arrogance, an ACLU report that the Police arrested a Teacher for politely asking, "Why?"

It's apparent to me that you missed keywords in posts from a different thread that stated my actual beliefs. I gave credit to these sources for what they actually state but they do not show that Mexican military vehicles or the personnel attacked Border Patrol or assisted in the smuggling of drugs.

My request was for sources that proved the assertion the Mexican military was assisting in illegal border crossing or aiding drug smugglers. These sources did not do that.

Thanks for your opinion.

How can you honestly say that none of them are here to assimilate?
I'll tell you why, because people who want to assimilate obey the laws of the country they wish to migrate to. By being illegal they've already made the statement that they will not obey U.S. law.

Maybe you think that your font makes you smarter than everyone else but from you're posts you seem like every other cookie cutter liberal. Someone who had their common sense and independent thinking exercised away by leftist academia.

No you didn't. Norm asserted that Mexico was invading, you posted a definition of invading and said that an invasion, by that definition, was not occurring. I then provided an example of an armed force entering the United States from Mexico, Norm then cited the specific articles and provided pictures. The armed Mexicans who crossed the border were crossing illegally and were thus, illegal aliens while they were in the United States.

Oh, by the way, here is another definition of the word "invade"

enter (a place, situation, or sphere of activity) in large numbers, esp. with intrusive effect.

That one is from the Oxford American Dictionary as found on my fianceé's iBook.

allow me.............................

MORON!

I know that people want to hang on to their cultures, but maybe they'd be more accepted in this country if they stopped flying the flags and celebrating the national holidays of their homeland...

Stop flying the flags, stop with the ridiculous stickers on the license plates, stop with the viva this and hecho en that...

You wanna be an American? Great! You wanna be a Mexican living in America? Go home if it's so wonderful. I dont care what color you are, if you are a proud American, you don't get to call yourself a proud anything else.

Maybe the immigrants (previously) weren't real big on American flags in their marches because it can be a symbol of the federal government that many (immigrants and citizens included) dislike. Maybe they like our culture, our freedoms, and our thriving capitalist economy, but they dislike big government meddling in the affairs of the people -- much like many American citizens who call themselves patriots.

Imagine the immigrant's view of our government; They get a lot of mixed signals. They're labeled "illegal" by our laws, but nobody deports them. The government won't issue them Social Security Numbers; But the IRS will blindly give them taxpayer ID numbers so the government can take advantage of the tax revenue (they don't care where the money comes from.) And, of course, the feds have passed the buck on immigration enforcement to the state governments by making everyone prove they're here legally in order to get a driver's license. So, considering the conflicted nature of our government, I can understand why they didn't initially take to the streets with red, white, and blue.

We are a nation of people from all over the world. Many people have pride in their heritage. Generally, the initial immigrants are likely to be most vocal about their heritage, but as time goes on people become more American and less (Mexican, Irish, etc.) The Irish and Africans are two prominent examples of cultures that generally coexist well among everyone in America. (I had to throw in the "generally" to take into account babies like Cynthia McKinney.) Showing pride in your heritage does not make you any less American at all.

In conclusion, I would like to see immigrants take to the streets with their native flag in one hand, and the American flag in the other. I am annoyed when I see them carrying only their native flag, but I understand why, and take no offense. They clearly would not be making such huge sacrifices to be here if they did not want to be a part of our culture.

They clearly would not be making such huge sacrifices to be here if they did not want to be a part of our culture.

You post is very well laid out...... BUT, they're here for the money, not culture. And they're getting free healthcare, foodstamps, fake DLs and oh, much more, on my dime..... while they send their dime back to their native country.

We are a nation of people from all over the world. Many people have pride in their heritage. Generally, the initial immigrants are likely to be most vocal about their heritage, but as time goes on people become more American and less (Mexican, Irish, etc.) The Irish and Africans are two prominent examples of cultures that generally coexist well among everyone in America. (I had to throw in the "generally" to take into account babies like Cynthia McKinney.) Showing pride in your heritage does not make you any less American at all.

That may be true but we have never had the influx of uncontrolled immigrants that we have now.



In conclusion, I would like to see immigrants take to the streets with their native flag in one hand, and the American flag in the other. I am annoyed when I see them carrying only their native flag, but I understand why, and take no offense. They clearly would not be making such huge sacrifices to be here if they did not want to be a part of our culture.
Name another country that would let an American citizen fly the American flag on their native soil. Would Mexico?
My ancestors did not fight and die so these people could fly a foreign flag here, period. If they all want to be part of the culture then why is 29% of the prison population comprised of illegal aliens? They made the choice not to join our culture when they willingly broke the first U.S. law they encountered.

Maybe I'll go out and rob a bank because I don't think it's fair that should have to work.;)

I am so glad to see Duggery on here with his "show me the source" arguments. This from someone with the following post on another thread.


I was trying to gain knowledge as to whether or not talking to a police officer during a calm situation constituted obstruction.

The thread was about an officer arresting teachers for interfering with an incident at a school, where they arrested students. He continually cited the one sided source and then comes back with this comment. Note the use of the word calm.

Duggery, you twist things to suit your purpose and your arguments are pretty lame. It's OK to have an opinion, but defend it with your own sources for a change.

This is a fair point. Can you give me an example of a hospital that was forced to close it's doors because it provided health care to undocumented immigrants?Tucson Medical Center closed it's trauma center-- one of two in the entire southwest AZ-- because they were unable to maintain a positive cashflow. One of the cited culperates was the influx of illegals who come across the border for better health care than Mexico offers. The State requires them to treat the "patients" but the federal government ISN'T required to reimburse for the cost.


I particularly like your use of the word 'invasion'. Please explain to me how the definition of the word fits your usage. The primary definition of the word invasion as excerpted from the Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=invasion) website is:

The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer.You're arguing semantics... a typical tactic of someone who has nothing better to argue. Unless you're a fool, you understand what the meaning of the word is...



The reality of it is immigrants whether they are illegal or legal are a good thing for our country. Some of them may commit violent crimes but not nearly as many as those committed by citizens.
This is your opinion, but baseless. The fact is that employers want to pay mexican nationals $2/hr, where Americans refuse to work at that rate. So illegals are good for slum wages and isolated, greedy businessmen, but there's no evidence to suggest they're good for America.


Another argument constantly heard is "They are taking American jobs". Yes, this is true. If the risk of an undocumented immigrant taking a citizen's job is high perhaps that citizen should have went to college? I for one have the security of knowing I cannot be replaced by an undocumented worker. If immigrants will work for less and do a better job by all means they should get the job over a less motivated American worker who wants more to do the same work at a slower pace resulting in poor quality.This argument is exploitation at it's finest... People like you will argue to the contrary in a heartbeat if it suits you.... for example, child labor. Exploitation is exploitation.... Period!

The argument that illegal mexicans are consumers, spending billions of US dollars on retail services is easily offset by the money lost when it's sent back to Mexico. Billions in revenue is lost from money returned to Mexico by family member here illegally. Fox fights for illegal immigration into the US because he taxes this revenue.

Oh, and one more thing, most illegal aliens from Mexico return to Mexico. They're not really undocumented immigrants they're more like migrants because the majority do not permanently stay in the United States. That's why I doubt that they're here to assimilate.

That's why I doubt that they're here to assimilate.Yup, just here to take advantage of us to better their lives back in their Country.

Why is it ok to pay illegal immigrants $2 an hour, but an American Citizen needs the minimum wage raised to $10 an hour to support their family?
You liberals cannot have it both ways- either $2 an hour is good enough or $10 an hour. Which is it? Or are you saying that Mexicans are a lower class of people and don't deserve the same wages as everyone else?

It always suprises me how liberals can complain about evil corporations screwing people out of their wages and retirement, and there are too many tax loopholes so they are not paying their fair share, and in the same breath say the Corporations are the heros of the illegals because they pay them $2 an hour under the table and don't bother paying FICA, Federal and Local income taxes on that pay.

Duggery- can you answer these questions?

Why is it ok to pay illegal immigrants $2 an hour, but an American Citizen needs the minimum wage raised to $10 an hour to support their family?
You liberals cannot have it both ways- either $2 an hour is good enough or $10 an hour. Which is it? Or are you saying that Mexicans are a lower class of people and don't deserve the same wages as everyone else?

It always suprises me how liberals can complain about evil corporations screwing people out of their wages and retirement, and there are too many tax loopholes so they are not paying their fair share, and in the same breath say the Corporations are the heros of the illegals because they pay them $2 an hour under the table and don't bother paying FICA, Federal and Local income taxes on that pay.

Duggery- can you answer these questions?
i agree