Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

Mexico considers trying U.S. border agent for illegal's killing


Hector Tobar, Times Staff Writer

MEXICO CITY

Copyright 2006 Los Angeles Times
All Rights Reserved

Mexican President Vicente Fox was under increased criticism here Thursday for his government's response to the shooting last week of a Mexican national during a confrontation with the U.S. Border Patrol just a few yards north of the international frontier near San Ysidro.

Guillermo Martinez Rodriguez, an 18-year-old Mexican identified by U.S. authorities as an immigrant smuggler, was allegedly shot and fatally wounded during the clash Dec. 30 on the U.S. side of the border.

Commentators here have suggested that the agent involved be tried in absentia in a Mexican court, and that the Fox government make it clear to the Bush administration that the human toll of the U.S. crackdown on illegal immigration is unacceptable.

"The defense of the life, the physical integrity and the human rights of our compatriots on U.S. soil cannot be delayed any longer," the influential daily newspaper El Universal said in an editorial Thursday.

El Universal called on the Mexican government to pressure the United States to sign an immigration accord that would allow Mexicans to migrate northward "in an orderly fashion."

Tijuana resident Martinez Rodriguez was part of a group of people throwing rocks at U.S. Border Patrol agents, according to news reports in Mexico. Wounded during the confrontation near a ladder smugglers were using to scale a fence, he fled back across the border. He died of his wounds in Tijuana, his relatives said.

Border Patrol officials acknowledge that one of their agents fired at a suspected illegal immigrant on Dec. 30 who was throwing rocks. But they say they cannot confirm that the bullet struck the suspect, since the man then retreated to Mexico.

Mexican authorities say Martinez Rodriguez was killed by a shot fired from a distance of 7 to 15 feet. The bullet struck him from behind and passed through his neck, they said.

"This is the kind of tragic thing that occurs when people try to illegally cross the border," Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff told reporters Thursday at a San Ysidro news conference. "There is zero tolerance for violence along the border."

Relations between the two countries remained strained Thursday, with new reminders of the increasingly chaotic and dangerous situation along the 2,000-mile border as thousands of Mexicans and other foreign nationals seek to cross illegally every day.

U.S. officials in Texas reported Thursday that Border Patrol agents have come under fire twice recently along the Rio Grande. No agents were injured in the Texas shootings.

On the night of Dec. 30, gunmen on the Mexican side of the frontier opened fire on a Border Patrol boat that was cruising the Rio Grande.

"We don't believe this was a random shooting," Jose Rodriguez, a spokesman for the Border Patrol in McAllen, Texas, said in a telephone interview. The gunmen, he noted, were able to strike the boat five times, even though it was moving quickly in the darkness.

And late Wednesday, unknown gunmen fired on agents on patrol in Brownsville.

No agents were injured in either incident.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the death of Martinez Rodriguez was "tragic for the families and the individuals involved." He said the U.S. government would reply privately to a Mexican "diplomatic note" demanding an investigation of the incident.

On Thursday, Mexican Foreign Minister Luis Ernesto Derbez said he had received a call from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice during which she promised that U.S. officials would investigate the incident.

Derbez was the subject of a scathing cartoon in Thursday's editions of the leftist newspaper La Jornada. He was depicted wearing a sombrero and serape and leaning sleepily against a cactus. The caption said, "Responding to Aggression."

This week, a panel of Mexican lawmakers declared the Martinez Rodriguez shooting "the result of the policies of submission" of the Fox government before the United States.

Several senators called for pressure tactics against the U.S., such as a Mexican boycott of businesses on the American side of the border.

"If they don't want us as workers, then we shouldn't be their consumers either," said Sen. Dulce Maria Sauri Riancho.

For many Mexicans, the shooting was especially galling because it came just weeks after the U.S. House of Representatives voted for the construction of 700 miles of fencing along the border.

Hundreds of people die every year after crossing the border illegally; most succumb to the rigors of crossing the desert with little food or water.

In the last three years, Mexican Sen. Raymundo Cardenas said, "more Mexicans have died [crossing the U.S. border than Germans died during the entire existence of the Berlin Wall."

Times staff writer Richard Marosi in San Ysidro and Cecilia Sanchez in The Times' Mexico City Bureau contributed to this report.

January 6, 2006


If the Mexican Government took a pro-active response to the Illegals crossing the border and there Dope Smugglers, shooting at our people things like this might be avoided.

Fox needs to understand that he would be better served focussing on internal issues. But since he loves to push his political positions, I say we teach him a lesson and revoke NAFTA, which has been better for Mexico than the US. Maybe then Fox will understand.

Yeah, good luck with that.

Wow. This Mexican politician compares his own country to Communist-dominated East Germany. :rolleyes:Yeah .... and they seem to forget that both sides of the Berlin wall were in the same country, they were both German and they were, at one time, united.

I dont see comparing the Berlin wall with the US / Mexico border a good match.

I don't get what there is to gain for the Mexican government here. Maybe you can rally some sort of twisted national support, instill some type of warped nationlism. But when your own citizens are daily (minute-by-minute) performing illegal acts against a bordering sovereign nation, and then get bent when agents of that sovereign nation take action, is just ludicrous.

Common wisdom suggests:

1. That you take control of your lawless population, and bring them to justice.
2. That it might be a good idea to go out of your way to promote good relations with your neighbor. A neighbor with whom you have strong financial ties, and is the world's super-power.
3. That possibly the catalyst of your problems is your own internal policies, and you should quit blaming the US for your fiscal trouble.

Here's a story I stumbled across. Not familiar with the site or author, but it's interesting.
Hillary's Evil Twin (http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon82.htm)

Oh, and as far as trying to put any of our LEOs on trial....
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/FeudalBaron/Old-Come-and-Take-It_mini.gif

That and Berliners KNEW that if they tried to cross they would be shot. Mexicans coming here don't have that fear because the worst that happens to them is they get sent back and are able to try again.

Maybe that idiot Fox would realize that people are running north because his leadership hasn't done one good thing for Mexico. I agree with TPD. Revoke NAFTA, build a wall, with signs saying trespassers will be shot.
What would the media and the world say if Bush tried to impose his will on Mexico like Fox does with America?

Machine gun nests along the border, and since the little punks want to shoot at our boats, arm the boats with several .50 cal automatic rifles. They open up on us, we hose them down with lead.

As for the charges..

KISS MY FAT AMERICAN ***!!! :mad:

KISS MY FAT AMERICAN ***!!! :mad:
You shouldn't be fat... you just got out of the academy.:p

You shouldn't be fat... you just got out of the academy.


Eh, I'm ok. 5'9 and 204lbs. Not bad, but I can sure move if I need to. ;) :D

I say shut the border down.
All the companys that ran south across the border will have to suck it up.
I bet the first thing that mexico will do is nationalize all of the international companys.
That will show their true colors. Socialism!

I find it surprising that Fox would raise any sort of stink about this at all, other than one purely for show, as their tactics for destroying our nation from within are working just fine. I'm sure I'm not alone on this board being able to remember a day when English was the defacto language of the USA. Then we started needing interpreters to translate for the growing masses of Hispanic migrant workers, then we started putting spanish on product labels, then we got an option to press #1 if we wanted a voice mail system to use spanish instead of english, and now we press #1 if we want the system to use ENGLISH instead of SPANISH! Their migrant workers are wreaking havoc on health care facilities in the southwest who are lawfully bound to provide medical services to same with NO hope of ever being paid for doing so. I'd like to know just how much it cost to send an illegal alien back to his home country so that we could compare it with the cost of incarcerating him/her for 1 year or so of very hard labor, then deporting him/her, and adding the cost to whatever loans are outstanding to that country. Or perhaps the UN could institute a new rule that added those costs to the amount of dues that nation pays to belong to the organization.
Just watch....many of the forces that caused other world superpowers to crumble are at work here. I just hope at some point we wise up enough to put a halt to it and get the US heading back in the right direction.

I don't get what there is to gain for the Mexican government here.

Man, you hit the "NAIL", on the head.... Perhaps our Government should deploy some of Army & Marine Divisions on the the US/Mexican Border before/after deploying to the "BIG-Sandbox", to stop the flow of illegal-aliens entering the US.... Maybe "FOX", would get the message and police his own "CORRUPT BORDER"!!!!!

I find the whole idea way too laughable! It amuses me to no end, and I actually enjoy seeing other countries get so worked up over this. Sorry, but that's the way it goes. Mexico can go away now.

Laughable is right. Mexicao cannot handle their own people and now they want to "handle" ours. All I have to say is, "Come and get our agent!" I would like to see them try that! There is no way that the US gov will acknowledge crap from them. The feds blow off US State Prosecutors when agents are found to be within their scope of duties. Who thinks that the G will listen to a pot full of corrupted politicians south of the border! :rolleyes:

Build the wall, arm agents to the teeth, make it a felony and let Fox take care of his own problems.

Hey, look! Mexican police on their side of the border. What a novel idea!:rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38075000/jpg/_38075340_cop150.jpg

I probably need remedial reading comprehension but I can't work out where the incident happened.

Did the agent shoot the man while both were on US soil?

Or did the agent shoot from the US and hit the man who was in Mexico?

If it was the former then surely it's up to the appropriate jurisdiction (would it be the state of California?) to consider murder charges for an offence which occurred in its own territory.

If the shot was fired into Mexico and killed a Mexican then it would seem to me that the appropriate state in Mexico (is it Baja California there?) or the federal Mexican government should seek extradition within the terms of a treaty (if any).

I've Googled about this, and found a number of similiar incidents occuring over the past few years. There is frequently a discrepancy about what actually happened, as the Mexicans always state that the US LEO is at fault. In this current situation, I have read that the agent in question was assaulted by illegal aliens on the US side of the border. The agent fired his weapon, hitting an individual, who ran back across the border, and died in a Mexican hospital.

Border Patrol Agents always at risk. (http://lang.sbsun.com/socal/beyondborders/part_4/p4_day1_agents.asp)

Thanks FB - more to the story than meets the eye.

Do they have a thread about this in the LEO only section? I have a bunch to say about this but not in the open.

I will say that arming the border is not the way to fix the problem. What are you going to do shoot a bunch of kids who are just trying to make a better life for themselves? Are they breaking the Law? Hell yes! Do they deserve to die because of that? Hell no! Untill reforms are made here and in Mexico then we will never fix the problem. Ask the poor Marine who is in jail for shooting an unarmed alien who was illegally entering the U.S. near El Paso. While we have the best military in the world they are not trained to do the job that the Border Patrol does. That's why we have a Border Patrol.

I should have access to the LEO only area soon (hear that bearcat?:D ) and will be happy to discuss this with you guys.

By the way don't believe everything you read in the paper!!

For many Mexicans, the shooting was especially galling because it came just weeks after the U.S. House of Representatives voted for the construction of 700 miles of fencing along the border.

This is Fox being stubborn because we are building a 700mile wall. It's how I look at it if you know what I mean. He feels he can trial one of our own for killing one of 'his', he thinks he can get back at us in this form. Fox can go jump off a cliff along with the rest of his corrupt drug infested nation.

Patrol. I should have access to the LEO only area soon (hear that bearcat?:D ) and will be happy to discuss this with you guys.

Out of my court now....up to when the head dude (aka da owner) gets all 21or so accounts switched over....

So please be patient.... :)

I will say that arming the border is not the way to fix the problem. What are you going to do shoot a bunch of kids who are just trying to make a better life for themselves? Are they breaking the Law? Hell yes! Do they deserve to die because of that? Hell no!
Untill reforms are made here and in Mexico then we will never fix the problem. Ask the poor Marine who is in jail for shooting an unarmed alien who was illegally entering the U.S. near El Paso. While we have the best military in the world they are not trained to do the job that the Border Patrol does. That's why we have a Border Patrol.
I don't know. I've worked in many countries where the military does control the borders and illegal immigration is not nearly the problem that we have here. I think the military could do a very good job. The one reform that would do the most good is convincing illegal aliens that they truly do take their life in their hands trying to enter and it's not just from the desert sun!
There are allowances for using deadly force (in the military) when the other person is not armed at all. They have to do with protecting national security. I really can't think how one could argue that reducing illegal immigration and all the problems it causes isn't in the interest of national security. All it needs is some political support.

I didn't even waste my time reading all the posts on this, just enough to listen to what happened. Stay out of our country!! I have said for years that our country should do something about mexican illegals. The damage has already been done but I guess its never too late to stop them from coming here.

Deputy,

I agree our military could do a good job in protecting our borders just not the way we do it now and not without a lot of political change. Soliders are trainied one way and BP agents another.

I would love an example of our military being able to use deadly force on an unarmed person.

I agree our military could do a good job in protecting our borders just not the way we do it now and not without a lot of political change. Soliders are trainied one way and BP agents another.

BPAs are definitely the experts of the physical security of our borders. However, I can assure you that our Armed Forces is more than capable of taking on a more active role. There are contingencies planned for, and on paper just awaiting word for implementation. Whereas the BP are the experts, the US Armed Forces are the generalists. I think, if necessary, they could work well together. I'm sure, under the circumstances, the manpower, logistical and technical assistance they could provide would be very helpful.

But I'm merely ranting here. This is, of course, a slippery slope that politicians and bureaucrats must navigate.

BP348, With regard to other matters, I'll PM you.

I probably need remedial reading comprehension but I can't work out where the incident happened.

Did the agent shoot the man while both were on US soil?

Or did the agent shoot from the US and hit the man who was in Mexico?

If it was the former then surely it's up to the appropriate jurisdiction (would it be the state of California?) to consider murder charges for an offence which occurred in its own territory.

If the shot was fired into Mexico and killed a Mexican then it would seem to me that the appropriate state in Mexico (is it Baja California there?) or the federal Mexican government should seek extradition within the terms of a treaty (if any).

This is from the article Oscar:

Guillermo Martinez Rodriguez, an 18-year-old Mexican identified by U.S. authorities as an immigrant smuggler, was allegedly shot and fatally wounded during the clash Dec. 30 on the U.S. side of the border.

Commentators here have suggested that the agent involved be tried in absentia in a Mexican court, and that the Fox government make it clear to the Bush administration that the human toll of the U.S. crackdown on illegal immigration is unacceptable.

It seems as if the Mexican shot was on the U.S. side of the border ...

Hey, look! Mexican police on their side of the border. What a novel idea!:rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38075000/jpg/_38075340_cop150.jpg

Am I correct in that it looks like WE armed him?

Yep, we need to repeal NAFTA.

...Then we started needing interpreters to translate for the growing masses of Hispanic migrant workers, then we started putting spanish on product labels, then we got an option to press #1 if we wanted a voice mail system to use spanish instead of english, and now we press #1 if we want the system to use ENGLISH instead of SPANISH!

When I was 10, my mother, brother and I moved to Tunisia (North Africa). We learned French fluently in 6 months - we didn't expect anybody to learn English for us, because we were in THEIR country. Immigrants shouldn't expect us to learn their language to accomodate them. They shouldn't, but they do. And many lawmakers are going along with it. Yeah, we're a melting pot, but the recipe's in English. I AM a proponent for English language training - maybe we can send some inner-city youths to those classes, too.

Am I correct in that it looks like WE armed him?

Yep, we need to repeal NAFTA.

Well, there was probably a deal made where the Mexican authorities would purchase the weapons from an American supplier/manufacturer, but with money supplied by an American grant, at below cost.:D

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/FeudalBaron/hearts_mindsMINI.jpg

Let's see here . . . bad guy assaults officer, officer defends himself. And the problem is what exactly? He was just supposed to stand there and be pelted by rocks???? This from the same country that refuses to extradite cop killers and whose military and police regularly conduct armed incursions into the US.

The solution to the flood of immigration from Mexico is fixing everything that is wrong inside of Mexico.

You only get the urge to leave a country once that country becomes oppressive, unstable, poor and lawless - unless of course you're visiting another country on vacation. Crossing treacherous rivers and dry barren deserts to get into the United States to work in the farming industry for 5$ an hour, definitely doesn't constitute a vacation.

My advice to Fox and Mexico, clean up house - or else you won't have one to clean if you keep bothering your crazy neighbor.

My advice to Fox and Mexico, clean up house - or else you won't have one to clean if you keep bothering your crazy neighbor.

That's always the dilemma. Countries that these kinds of economic and social problems that have existed for years, don't seem to have any effective, workable solution to sell. Of course the problems are much more complex than our own layman observations reveal; the United States is not the remedy. In the past, too many countries have looked to the US with one hand out for the cash, and the other hand behind there back with a knife. What makes matters even more complicated is that if we (the US) don't take a full interest in our hemisphere, China will (and is). Just recently, the newly elected Socialist President of Bolivia, Evo Morales, is wooing China for investment. Reportedly, Mexico has already developed relations with China, participated in military training, and increased trade.

I know, this is a much bigger picture than a BPA possibly being tried in absentia. But, I think when we get into "what's wrong with Mexico," and "what should be done," then the complexity grows monumental.

Just my 2 cents.:D

And obviously China's investments have done no good either. It isn't about foreign investments in Mexico or how much we can do for Mexico; it is rather how much Mexico can do for itself.

Communism would do no good for Mexico obviously, but democracy has proven to also be tough. But it is only tough because the people haven't realized their power yet. Democracy takes time, and one day the people will revolt. All we need to give the Mexicans is the spark. When they realize we won't give them anymore hand-outs and the only other solution is to revolt and take the power into their own hands, we will see a change.

The problem rests with the government, and their inability to run their country efficiently. The money isn't leaking into the lower-class, and the Mexicans think that the only solution is to get that money over the border. They will realize, when that stops, that they must fight for their money and wellbeing from the government that should ensure their wealth, health and happiness.

The time will come, just wait. Democracy takes time, but democracy will always prevail.

I don't know if it's true or not But I read somewhere that something like 15% of the people in Mexico control 85%+ of the money. That's why there is such a class difference.

Baron,
Thanks for the PM's but I'm starting to get a real bad "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you" vibe :D

I do know of at least one stuation where the military would kill an unarmed person. Put Osama bin laden in the sights of one of the Army or Marine Corps Scout/Sniper teams. But that's different than using the military to guard our borders.

Read This. (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/1229mexicoaid.html)

Deputy,

I agree our military could do a good job in protecting our borders just not the way we do it now and not without a lot of political change. Soliders are trainied one way and BP agents another.

I would love an example of our military being able to use deadly force on an unarmed person.
Yes, but that change needs to come soon or we're headed for trouble!

Ok..an example, well...if anyone were to cross the deadly force line in an area where they have B1B's or any other strategic nuclear asset, it wouldn't matter what, or if, they were packing. Deadly force is authorized (in the military) to protect any items of interest to national security.

Yeah, we're a melting pot, but the recipe's in English.
Rep sent!! :D

Is there anyone left who has not figured out that Mexico is not our friend?

I don't get what there is to gain for the Mexican government here.

Man, you hit the "NAIL", on the head.... Perhaps our Government should deploy some of Army & Marine Divisions on the the US/Mexican Border before/after deploying to the "BIG-Sandbox", to stop the flow of illegal-aliens entering the US.... Maybe "FOX", would get the message and police his own "CORRUPT BORDER"!!!!!


I think we should put the military on full time at the border for about six months to a year (until we are fully staffed and guarded) then just start pushing our border south about half a mile a month or so! If he wants to push we should push back!

This is from the article Oscar:

Guillermo Martinez Rodriguez, an 18-year-old Mexican identified by U.S. authorities as an immigrant smuggler, was allegedly shot and fatally wounded during the clash Dec. 30 on the U.S. side of the border.

Commentators here have suggested that the agent involved be tried in absentia in a Mexican court, and that the Fox government make it clear to the Bush administration that the human toll of the U.S. crackdown on illegal immigration is unacceptable.

It seems as if the Mexican shot was on the U.S. side of the border ...

Thanks BG - in that case it's clearly an issue for the U.S. and while Mexico has an interest in that one of it's citizens was the victim it seems to me that the jurisdiction question fixes it firmly in the U.S. One would think the same would apply in reverse. But then when it comes to international law/relations and what criminal justice issues the air is a bit rarified.

For those that think deadly force is the perfect way to protect our border, I have a question:
For the lone family that crosses with a father, mother and four children...do you have a minimum age at which you split their skulls open or is any age appropriate? Or do you, say, kill the father and mother and hope the kids run back to Mexico? That is, if they are old enough to walk. And why stop there? Once they are here and we stop a car load of them on their way home from the chicken plant at 2:00 in the morning why not just go ahead and execute them? What would the difference be?

Illegal immigration is a huge problem that we could SURELY come up with an answer to without killing the poor bastard that is trying to get to the cabbage field. Maybe putting our resources into sealing the border so it cuts it down to the point where it isn't nearly the problem it is now.

For those that think deadly force is the perfect way to protect our border, I have a question:
For the lone family that crosses with a father, mother and four children...do you have a minimum age at which you split their skulls open or is any age appropriate? Or do you, say, kill the father and mother and hope the kids run back to Mexico? That is, if they are old enough to walk. And why stop there? Once they are here and we stop a car load of them on their way home from the chicken plant at 2:00 in the morning why not just go ahead and execute them? What would the difference be?

Illegal immigration is a huge problem that we could SURELY come up with an answer to without killing the poor bastard that is trying to get to the cabbage field. Maybe putting our resources into sealing the border so it cuts it down to the point where it isn't nearly the problem it is now.
Nah, shooting them is a cheaper alternative. Once you shoot a couple of them it'll get back to the fine folk in Mexico and maybe they'll decide to stay there :0

I don't think anyone has advocated just blatantly killing anyone who crosses the border illegally.

What "I" think is that we should simply "seal" the border, then illegal crossings would completely cease.

We have the manpower and the ability, using all sources including the military, and put equipment and men, shouilder to shoulder to seal the border.

= No illegal crossings, no violence, no deaths.

I don't think anyone has advocated just blatantly killing anyone who crosses the border illegally.

What "I" think is that we should simply "seal" the border, then illegal crossings would completely cease.

We have the manpower and the ability, using all sources including the military, and put equipment and men, shouilder to shoulder to seal the border.

= No illegal crossings, no violence, no deaths.


You know we have technology and know-how if we really want to.

For those that think deadly force is the perfect way to protect our border, I have a question:
For the lone family that crosses with a father, mother and four children...do you have a minimum age at which you split their skulls open or is any age appropriate? Or do you, say, kill the father and mother and hope the kids run back to Mexico? That is, if they are old enough to walk. And why stop there? Once they are here and we stop a car load of them on their way home from the chicken plant at 2:00 in the morning why not just go ahead and execute them? What would the difference be?
No, I don't advocate deadly force as a first response. If they try to get across and are caught, then arrest them, put them through an intensive interrogation where they are probably sure the outcome will be a one way ticket to Heaven, and then send them back. If they don't comply and try to flee into the US, then lock and load.

Illegal immigration is a huge problem that we could SURELY come up with an answer to without killing the poor bastard that is trying to get to the cabbage field. Maybe putting our resources into sealing the border so it cuts it down to the point where it isn't nearly the problem it is now.
Yes, there are certainly more solutions that what are being implemented right now. For instance, start slamming the companies that utilize this semi form of slave labor with heavy fines and incarceration for the companies top management. There are plenty of laws already on the books for this sort of thing...let's get some balls and start using them.

For instance, start slamming the companies that utilize this semi form of slave labor with heavy fines and incarceration for the companies top management.

Excellent point! It's like targeting drug-users, as well as the distributor. Remember the old T. Roosevelt quote, "No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it." It doesn't matter what's right or wrong (that's where you use your voting power), especially as an LEO. It only matters if it's legal (a crime) or not. Is it illegal for a foreigner to cross the border into the United States without first processing through an official entry point? Obviously this is becoming a hot topic to border communities as well (i.e. Costa Mesa).

For those that think deadly force is the perfect way to protect our border, I have a question:
For the lone family that crosses with a father, mother and four children...do you have a minimum age at which you split their skulls open or is any age appropriate? Or do you, say, kill the father and mother and hope the kids run back to Mexico? That is, if they are old enough to walk. And why stop there? Once they are here and we stop a car load of them on their way home from the chicken plant at 2:00 in the morning why not just go ahead and execute them? What would the difference be?

Illegal immigration is a huge problem that we could SURELY come up with an answer to without killing the poor bastard that is trying to get to the cabbage field. Maybe putting our resources into sealing the border so it cuts it down to the point where it isn't nearly the problem it is now.


I don't care if it's a busload of nuns, if they are ILLEGALLY crossing the border to ILLEGALLY enter our country to live and work ILLEGALLY then they need to be stopped. I don't give a crap how you spin it or how much heart and tears the story has... It's still Illegal and it needs to STOP!

Besides, the threat of violence or not PC friendly treatment could be enough of a deterent so as to keep these family types from breaking the law.

Yes, there are certainly more solutions that what are being implemented right now. For instance, start slamming the companies that utilize this semi form of slave labor with heavy fines and incarceration for the companies top management. There are plenty of laws already on the books for this sort of thing...let's get some balls and start using them.


Good thinking. Of course the corporations that use this cheap labour are going to fight like blazes to stop anyone allowing them to do so. They will use all their K Street lobbying power to head off any legislator that truly seeks to stop this. I'm also surprised that the AFL-CIO and affiliated locals haven't kicked up a stink (if they have then I missed it) at this. But then I suppose they haven't really dealt with globalisation so expecting them to take this on is probably too much.

I don't care if it's a busload of nuns, if they are ILLEGALLY crossing the border to ILLEGALLY enter our country to live and work ILLEGALLY then they need to be stopped. I don't give a crap how you spin it or how much heart and tears the story has... It's still Illegal and it needs to STOP!
So I take it you are one that advocates using deadly force against anyone entering the country illegally?

And since you say it's "illegal and it needs to STOP!", do you feel the same about all illegal activity? Or do you think there are different levels of illegal activity that deserve different levels of punishment?

Pretty interesting conversation here. What do you actually mean 'really', by SEALING the border. Are you talking about the 700 mile wall we are supposibly building (that kindof sealing) or, figurtively sealing the entire border with troops and personnel? Thanks. :)

So I take it you are one that advocates using deadly force against anyone entering the country illegally?

And since you say it's "illegal and it needs to STOP!", do you feel the same about all illegal activity? Or do you think there are different levels of illegal activity that deserve different levels of punishment?


No no, I firmly believe that all illegal activity should be delt with severely and swiftly. Not all warrants execution obviously but people that commit violent crimes in particular should be executed period. There has to be something for people to fear in order to keep them from acting. I'm not saying that just illegally trying to enter the US should get you shot but strong action needs to be taken to stop this.

Pretty interesting conversation here. What do you actually mean 'really', by SEALING the border. Are you talking about the 700 mile wall we are supposibly building (that kindof sealing) or, figurtively sealing the entire border with troops and personnel? Thanks. :)


I think we should seal the border and a wall would be nice but a 700mile wall will not cover all of the Northern border too so they need to add a few hundred miles to that figure.

I think we should seal the border and a wall would be nice but a 700mile wall will not cover all of the Northern border too so they need to add a few hundred miles to that figure.

But, Chewy, how would you get to work if they put a wall on the northern border?

But, Chewy, how would you get to work if they put a wall on the northern border?
He is still salty he can't carry his weapon to Canada for that cushy job at Rail VACIS. :rolleyes: BTW Chewy have you used that new fangled crapper zapper that they gave you :D

But, Chewy, how would you get to work if they put a wall on the northern border?


That's the reason they transfered Air Marine Interdiction from ICE to CBP... so they could fly me to work!

He is still salty he can't carry his weapon to Canada for that cushy job at Rail VACIS. :rolleyes: BTW Chewy have you used that new fangled crapper zapper that they gave you :D


I will NEVER.... NEVER use that stupid wannabe toilet!! One of the day shift guys pee'd in it and it smells SOOOOOOOOoooooo bad when the urine is burned!!! It is utterly disgusting.

I will NEVER.... NEVER use that stupid wannabe toilet!! One of the day shift guys pee'd in it and it smells SOOOOOOOOoooooo bad when the urine is burned!!! It is utterly disgusting.

WELL, then I'm glad he didn't poo in it, too, 'cause that would smell worse... and quite possibly be highly flammable :eek: