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Norm357
12-11-05, 01:52 PM
Every single day there is a story like this in Atlanta.

Source: ajc.com Registration required.


A Morrow High School special needs student lied when she accused a fellow student of rape, Clayton County police said Friday.

Assistant Chief Jeff Turner said the girl, 14, admitted to detectives Thursday night that she made up the rape allegation because she was angry at the boy for bragging about having sex with her.


Turner said the girl had sex with two boys, both 15, Friday while they were supposed to be in class.

School officials said the acts took place off campus.

Turner said the girl will not be charged with making a false report of a crime because of her mental capacity and that the boys will not be charged.

Asked whether the students will be disciplined by the school district, spokesman Charles White said the investigation is continuing.


Mr.Melon
12-11-05, 02:36 PM
"This is why I never believe a rape claim."


Wow. Just wow.




Just... Wow.

Norm357
12-11-05, 02:46 PM
"This is why I never believe a rape claim."


Wow. Just wow.




Just... Wow.

How many times do you have to have some little ***** recant a rape claim after she gets busted making the nasty with her boyfriend. Dont blame me, blame the little ****s. Thanks for the neg rep BTW asshat.


Manxman
12-11-05, 02:49 PM
Norm,

Yes, false allegations of rape are made and are hugely devestating to the man wrongly accused. But rape does happen, so we can't dismiss all allegations out of hand.

Norm357
12-11-05, 02:55 PM
Norm,

Yes, false allegations of rape are made and are hugely devestating to the man wrongly accused. But rape does happen, so we can't dismiss all allegations out of hand.

No, no we cannot. Rape however is a crime where you are guilty untill proven innocent. This is wrong. Every day in Atlanta, some **** gets her feelings hurt, or busted by mommy and daddy, and cries rape. This is also wrong.

KatieMH21
12-11-05, 02:57 PM
No, no we cannot. Rape however is a crime where you are guilty untill proven innocent. This is wrong. Every day in Atlanta, some **** gets her feelings hurt, or busted by mommy and daddy, and cries rape. This is also wrong.


False allegations happen in every kind of crime though, not just rape.

Norm357
12-11-05, 02:58 PM
Interesting reading for those interested in the truth and not just political correctness.

SOURCE (http://www.hisside.com/3_21_04.htm)




For 16 years former Colorado prosecutor Craig Silverman was known for his zealous prosecution of rapists--prosecutions which have resulted in thousands of years of prison time for those convicted. Yet he is also critical of what he calls the "politically correct victims advocate's view" held by many Colorado prosecutors of "always believe the woman." He says:

"During my time as a prosecutor who made case filing decisions, I was amazed to see all the false rape allegations that were made to the Denver Police Department. It was remarkable and surprising to me. You would have to see it to believe it. Any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes that there is. A command officer in the Denver Police sex assaults unit recently told me he placed the false rape numbers at approximately 45 percent."

Several studies show that false rape allegations are a serious problem. For example, in an Air Force study of 556 rape accusations, in 27 percent of the cases the accusers admitted, either just before taking a polygraph test or after failing one, that they had lied. An independent review later examined the claims and concluded that 60% of the 556 rape claims were false. Two studies discussed by researcher Eugene Kanin put the rate of false allegations between 41% and 50%.

Silverman and Fox News Columnist Wendy McElroy joined Glenn to discuss the Kobe Bryant case, rape shield laws, and the problem of false accusations. To listen to the archive of the show, click here and scroll down to "Listen to the Show."

To learn more about the prevalence of false accusations of rape, see An alarming national trend: False Rape Allegations by Eugene J. Kanin, Ph.D. and David Throop's False Rape Reports from Adults.

Also, see McElroy's Fox News columns Prosecutor Grandstanding Undermines Justice (1/6/04) and "False Rape Charges Hurt Real Victims " (7/22/03).

To learn more about the Bryant case, see Silverman's Are Those White Flags? (3/2/04) and Role Reversal (2/4/04).

In addition, Brian Carnell of www.EquityFeminism.com has written several informative articles on false accusations--see:
Leniency for False Rape Accuser in the UK (10/6/2003)
Conviction in False Rape Case Yields 9 Month Sentence (8/25/2003)
Tucker Carlson and False Rape Accusations (7/27/2003)
How blind should justice be? (4/14/2000)

Manxman
12-11-05, 02:59 PM
No, no we cannot. Rape however is a crime where you are guilty untill proven innocent. This is wrong. Every day in Atlanta, some **** gets her feelings hurt, or busted by mommy and daddy, and cries rape. This is also wrong.

I'll absolutely agree with you on that one.

There was a hoo-hah in the UK not so long ago that "not enough men are being convicted of rape". So the government changed the law to make it easier for men to be convicted.

It used to be that a man could only be convicted if he knew or was reckless as to whether the woman was not consenting. Now the man has to know that she is consenting. It's a subtle but significant change in the elements of the offence. The whole deal smaks of an attempt to appease the femi-nazi lobby.

Norm357
12-11-05, 03:00 PM
False allegations happen in every kind of crime though, not just rape.


Certainly, but sex crimes are the only crime where you are guilty untill proven innocent. Once again, this is wrong.

Mr.Melon
12-11-05, 03:02 PM
Not to stir the hornet nest, but it does seem that even if the most extreme statistic you've presented for false allegations of rape was accurate (60%), that would still not be a reason to "never believe a rape claim." Sorry if the 'neg rep' offended you.

Piggy
12-11-05, 03:21 PM
Even if the stat was half of that at 30%, I'd say that's a pretty high number for false allegations. I can't think of any other crime that has a false reporting rate of 30% or higher.

The problem is most jurisdictions don't follow through with prosecuting the person that makes the false claim. Not only devastating for the person accused, the family of the accused, but it is still damaging to the person after the truth comes out.

Kate
12-11-05, 03:30 PM
Why is there this awful stigma that the female is ALWAYS at fault when it comes to rape? And then people wonder WHY so many women don't come forward and report what happened.

It's not a crime of sex; it's about power.

Norm357
12-11-05, 03:37 PM
Why is there this awful stigma that the female is ALWAYS at fault when it comes to rape? And then people wonder WHY so many women don't come forward and report what happened.

It's not a crime of sex; it's about power.

Kate, I never said the female is at fault. Rape is a horrible crime and those guilty of it should be put away forever. If you want to be angry at somebody, be angry at those little hoochies making false rape claims. They are hurting other women the most.

Kate
12-11-05, 03:40 PM
Norm,

I agree with you in regard to the little wenches who make stories up saying they were raped. I think they have serious issues. However, I think I'm more taken back by the title of your thread. IMO, it sounds like you're lumping ALL rape victims in that category of false claims, and I find it misleading.

Norm357
12-11-05, 04:03 PM
Norm,

I agree with you in regard to the little wenches who make stories up saying they were raped. I think they have serious issues. However, I think I'm more taken back by the title of your thread. IMO, it sounds like you're lumping ALL rape victims in that category of false claims, and I find it misleading.

Hmmmm, maybe I am just burnt out on the daily false claims here. Sorry I upset you Kate.

Swat1
12-11-05, 04:18 PM
Having worked sex crimes, I can attest to the fact that there are a large number of false allegations reporting rape. I have worked numerous rape allegations and they are very very difficult.

In one very agregious case I had a 19 year old female report that she had been raped approximately 12 hours after it had allegedly occurred. She had been watching her grandmothers (a big wig in the city and the Director of the Crime Victim/Witness Program) home while the grandma was away at a conference. She decides to have a party and at approximately 5:00 p.m. (on a Friday) reports that she had been raped.

She is very believable and we take her in for a SANE Exam (Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner). They conduct a sexual assault examination which includes the gathering of numerous types of evidenc including vaginal swabbings, coloscopic photographs of any injuries etc. The exam concluded that she had had non-consensual sexual intercourse causing a small tear to an inner vaginal wall and an abrasion on the upper vaginal opening beneath the uretheral opening. These injuries are consistent with non-consensual sexual intercourse.

A search warrant at the residence found that the bedroom door which she claimed to be sleeping in when the rape initiated had been kicked in. We found small droplets of blood going down the stairs to the den. She claimed the perp had forced her to go down stairs with him to watch television after the fifth rape. She claimed to have been raped a total of seven to nine times during the evening.

She claimed that at one point she escaped after he fell asleep and left the house trying to go the neighbors, however, observed they were not home, (approx 2:30 a.m.) so she tried to take another persons car who had attended the party. However, she did not know how to drive a manual and couldn't get it started.

She reports that he came out and found her dragged her back in and raped her again.

We really believe her when the interview of the accused rapist (18 yrs old), states he does not remember the evening because he was so drunk. This is most often a sure sign that the accused is guilty. We take a DNA sample and send it all off to the lab.

We interview everyone else at the party and no one heard any kind of commotion, screaming, crying, nothing.

One of the interviewees, says he had sex with the complainant earlier in the evening before anyone else had showed up for the party. I go back and ask the complainant and she vehemently denies this saying that he had a big crush on her and had been after her for a while. He describes their relationship as quasi boyfriend - girlfriend, she says he is nuts.

The rape kit found semen and the DNA from the accused is tested against it. Results - NOT HIM. Unfortunately, while interviewing the other kid who stated he had sex with her his mother came to the PD and created quite a ruckus about us interviewing him. He was 18 and could make his own decisions but he could hear her screaming from the interview room and wanted to see what was up. He then wanted her present, which we obviously don't like and to boot she is anti police. We ask him for a DNA sample and she goes balistic and they leave.

We never got the sample from him, but I am pretty sure it was his DNA found in her.

She then admitted to the Assistant US Attorney handling the case that the original accuser did not rape her. Later she recanted that story and stated she had been gang raped by all the males at the party.

She went on to help DOJ make a victim/witness tape and spoke at a couple of conferences complaining about the police, US Attorney's office, etc. and how we failed her. No one from DOJ called the US Attorney from the office where the case was handled to find out anything about the case before featuring her in this video.

So in essence, main justice produced and paid for a tape slamming one of their own offices without consulting anyone at that office for more info. They just took the girl at her word.

Copies of the tape went out to all the US Attorney's Offices across the country and when they got it in Portland and saw it, the victim/witness people showed it to the US Attorney for the District of Oregon who was major league pissed. Results, all the tapes were recalled the girl was taken off the conference schedules as a speaker and the G wasted millions of dollars making and then recalling that video.

NOTE: This is an extreme case concerning a false allegation, however, we also successfully investigated several rapes which were definately rapes. Usually the victim was passed out drunk and the drunk perp "assaulted" them in their sleep. Most of those victims woke up bleeding and sore.

Another crime which also generates a fair number of false reports is child sexual abuse. Although not to the extent of rapes, many child sexual abuse reports come from one parent trying to get some leverage over another, usually mother reporting the father. Any sex abuse case reported where the parents are having marital problems should be looked at with this in mind. This is not to say that every report stemming from a problem home is this way as some victims will come forward to their mothers once the perp is out of the house, so you must be very careful.

Swat1*

Norm357
12-11-05, 04:26 PM
Source (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/08/ap/national/mainD8EC9SLOH.shtml)


A judge Thursday freed an inmate whose claims of innocence in a kidnapping and rape went unheeded for nearly a quarter of a century, until DNA evidence proved him right.

At the end of the 15-minute hearing where Robert Clark was finally granted his freedom, his attorney Peter Neufeld patted him on the back and said, "You're free to go, fella."

A smiling Clark hugged and kissed family members, repeatedly saying, "I told you. I told you."

Source (http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/sep03/169169.asp)


Under a bright sun just before 9 Thursday morning, Steven Avery took his final steps toward freedom with his sister on one arm and his daughter on the other, his parents and his history-making legal team trailing behind.
Surrounded by the media, Steve Avery arrives at the home of his parents Thursday. Avery told the media he hopes to take one day at a time, and to one day re-establish contact with his children.


Quotable
DNA testing now links the assault to Gregory A. Allen (above), an inmate in Green Bay who is serving a 60-year sentence for a sexual assault committed after the Manitowoc woman was attacked.


Others Who
Were Freed

Steven Avery is the third Wisconsin prison inmate and the 137th nationwide to be freed after DNA tests proved he was wrongly convicted.
The other Wisconsin cases:
Frederic Saecker, convicted in 1990 of the 1989 sexual assault and kidnapping of a 39-year-old woman abducted from her Bluff Siding home in Buffalo County. Sentenced to 15 years in prison. Freed in 1996.
Anthony Hicks, convicted in 1991 of the 1990 rape and robbery of a 26-year-old woman in her Dane County apartment. Sentenced to 19 years in prison. Freed in 1997.
Avery is the second inmate freed by the Wisconsin Innocence Project. In 2001, the project freed Christopher Ochoa, who had served 13 years of a life sentence for a 1988 murder and sexual assault in Austin, Texas.


There was a pause as the group approached the final set of locked doors at the prison. More than 17 years behind bars for a wrongly convicted man were about to end.

"I'm out!" the soft-spoken Avery cried. "Feels wonderful."

Moments later, the 41-year-old former auto salvage worker became the first Wisconsin inmate to get his conviction overturned by the Wisconsin Innocence Project and only the third state inmate to be freed from prison through DNA testing.

A day after the testing proved that another man had beaten and sexually assaulted a Manitowoc woman in 1985, Avery expressed no anger toward the victim, who had repeatedly identified him as her attacker.

Source (http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/news/id2487/pg1/)


Preliminary DNA tests on evidence once believed destroyed has exonerated a man imprisoned in 1984 for raping a college student, a prosecutor said.
Prosecutor Jennifer Joyce said she plans to file court papers to free Larry Johnson, 47, serving a life sentence plus 30 years for rape, sodomy, kidnapping and robbery.

"My heart just goes out to Mr. Johnson," said Joyce, who had no role in his conviction. "Mr. Johnson has been horribly wronged. Absolutely, there is no way I can ever make this up to him."...

Perhaps these men think I am over reacting? ;)

Mr.Melon
12-11-05, 04:35 PM
I'm not sure why you've taken the time to find and post further examples of false rape allegations--no one on this board would argue that it never happens. The statement that I personally found contemptible was the title, "This is why I never believe a rape claim." It implies to me that, due to one or multiple examples of false allegations, you never believe that anyone is raped, which strikes me both as ridiculous and offensive.

Furthermore, as to whether those men would think that you are 'overreacting'... I'd wager that, if asked, they too acknowledge that, though false allegations are extremely stressful and damaging to the accused, that rape does in fact happen.

PuckFan359
12-11-05, 05:57 PM
Norm,

I think you kinda' hijacked your own thread with your last post. From what I could determine from your cut and pastes those woman WERE raped. The 4 men were wrongly CONVICTED and DNA evidence proved them to be wrongly convicted. I'm assuming that the DNA of the convicted men was matched against DNA evidence collected from the victims. Proving that another person was responsible for the crime.
While I too am concerned about innocent people doing jail time for acts that they did not commit. At least, law enforcement and society as a whole is taking action to correct these injustices (Thus DNA evidence) for past, present and future cases.

What concerns me a bit more are the cases in your original post. No DNA test in the world is ever gonna' help a guy who has consensual liaison with a woman only for her to accuse rape at a later time. As a matter of fact DNA would probably be the MOST damning evidence that a crime was committed. I believe the only recourse is that False accusers should be prosecuted aggressively.

Kate
12-11-05, 06:03 PM
Sorry I upset you Kate.

Norm,

No worries. You don't owe me an apology. Honest. I can disagree with you and still have immense respect and admiration for you at the same time. ;)

BlueGoose
12-11-05, 06:14 PM
Never believe a rape claim?

I'm sure this is hyperbole, because I highly doubt you would support simply exonerating the thousands of sex offenders and pedophiles in this nation.

However, I do understand the jist of your message.

TattoodDucky
12-11-05, 06:56 PM
I wonder what the percentage is of women who are raped but never report it? It was only a couple of years ago that South Carolina finally made it illegal for a husband to rape his wife. I'm not defending false accusers in ANY WAY, but rape does happen, it happens often, and until recently in some states there was legal rape. How's that for injustice?

SeVere
12-11-05, 09:15 PM
I will say this, the ones who create tales of woe make it very very difficult for the real victims out there.

jemixxnyc
12-11-05, 09:39 PM
I will say this, the ones who create tales of woe make it very very difficult for the real victims out there.

Yea it's definitly not fair to woman who have actually been raped. Not only do they have to have this huge investigation, but they're trying to find out if maybe you sleep with alot of guys, maybe you're a **** or a prostitute, that's got to be pretty degrading if you are really just a normal woman who has been raped.

It kind of goes both ways, it's hard for a rape victim to prove she's really a rape victim sometimes, and then other times it's hard for an innocent man to prove he didn't rape anyone.

Kind of doesn't matter but just curious anyway because I don't have a vagina. Isn't it possible to get an abrasion on the inside of you just from simply having sex for an extended period of time and not being raped, all that friction and whatnot.

retdetsgt
12-11-05, 10:09 PM
Yeah, yeah. I worked sex crimes for about 7 years and false claims do happen, but they aren't the norm (no pun intended) and they are usually made by teenage girls who don't seem to understand the magnitude of their accusation. But that doesn't mean that all or even most rape reports by teenagers are baloney. I've had my share of them too, but to cite them, I'd feel obligated to cite at least 10-20 good cases for fair balance and I don't have the time nor the inclination for that.

It takes more to prove rape other than she said/he said. That takes out a lot of false reports right there. Even if we can't prove them false, the DA isn't going to proceed with a case like that. And that doesn't guarantee justice either. I can recall several cases I had that were she said/he said and were kissed off only to have the same guy convicted later for another case where there was better evidence.

As far as the victimization, the victims of real rape suffer a hell of a lot more than the guy who is falsely accused now and then. I've not defending the women who do that by any means, but people are much quicker to forget when a man is falsely accused. A lot of women are screwed up for life after a brutal rape.

Like Tattooed Ducky said, there are a hell of a lot of rapes that are never reported to the police. We know that because of the difference in our numbers and then numbers taken by the Rape Hot Line here who offers services and counseling to rape victims. They are under no obligation to report these to the police even in the case of minors because they aren't mandatory reporters. Since most rape victims are raped by someone they know and often trust, they don't want to go through the pain and hassle of dealing not only with the system, but other family members. It was always shocking to me to see family members take the side of the rapist just because they didn't either want to believe it happened or if they did, they would have to deal with ostracizing the rapist.

As far as the cases where the rapist was eventually cleared by DNA, those are rarely if ever cases where the victim knew the suspect and falsely accused him. Those DNA cases hardly have anything to do with false reporting, but mistaken identity.

KittyMom
12-13-05, 09:59 PM
RDS, as always, you are da man!