Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

Is there anyone else here involved in submission grappling. I have trained in many styles of martial arts and this has been the most useful on the street. Any comments or feedback?

Is that the same as ground fighting? Our DT Instructors have been teaching us some of that.

There are standing techniques, takedowns, arm locks; however, the vast majority of the techniques are ground based.

mostly do japanese Jiu Jitsu, and used to do hapkido.

Got a link???

mostly do japanese Jiu Jitsu, and used to do hapkido.

Got a link???

I do Japanese Jujitsu also, never tried hapkido. www.spetactical.com has DT moves etc. Some are japanese jujitsu, some are submission grappling. I am adding more free DT moves and other police information regularly.

Judging by the lack of responses to this thread, I think that there are few submission grapplers out there. Those of you who are LEO's may want to consider it for the following reasons:

1. You train at submission grappling at the same speed and power as you would use on the street. This makes the transition to the street very comfortable.

2. Submission grappling gives you the skills to control a much larger opponent and quickly end the fight. I have seen many officers struggle with suspects to the point of exhaustion without ever gaining control. I routinely spar with people with 75-100 lb weight advantage and repeatedly win (they submit to the pain etc and become compliant) in 60 seconds or less.

3. You can control a suspect with pain compliance instead of inflicting injury. In those cases where elevated levels of force are justified, the same techniques can cause damage or incapacitate a suspect (just use a greater range of motion, pressure etc).

4. Combine submission grappling with muay thai (or boxing) and Judo (or Japanese jiu jitsu). You will have a very complete DT package. I would also throw in some Krav Maga for defense against weapons if you are feeling adventurous.

The only martial arts that I really can say that I have paid to learn is Jeet Koon Do. I wish that I had the job schedule to keep a regular consistency going with it. I was a highschool wrestler, and it has come in handy many times. I don't know too many locks that I would really try in a fight.

Grappling range definitely should not be overlooked or ignored. Ideally, you'd want to be able to either prevent a BG from taking you down Or go to the ground on your own terms but that's not always possible.

If/when you do end up on the ground, you need to be able to get back up on your feet. Along the way, you may also need to be proficient in getting a BG off of you (BG mounted on you), preventing and/or escaping a rear choke, developing sensitivity and skills for weapon retention, minimizing damage while in a position of disadvantage, etal.

The only martial arts that I really can say that I have paid to learn is Jeet Koon Do.

K9, if that is the way it's spelled on that school's front door, you may want to look into getting your money back! :eek: (It's Jeet Kune Do)...

We're strictly hapkido. If you want anything higher, it's on our own time.

K9, if that is the way it's spelled on that school's front door, you may want to look into getting your money back! (It's Jeet Kune Do)...

I could of gotten off my *** and read it off the tee shirt I wore to class, but I didn't. I went to a few classes a couple of times several years ago. The hours of this job didn't bend to the times that classes were held.

I could of gotten off my *** and read it off the tee shirt I wore to class, but I didn't. I went to a few classes a couple of times several years ago. The hours of this job didn't bend to the times that classes were held.

I have never been a fan of formal classes for a variety of reasons: 1) they are geared for civilians with different goals, 2) they dispense information slowly so they can bleed you dry financially 3) there is too much useless crap and cermony mixed in with the useful techniques (fluff).

You got that right! We have an officer up here in Buffalo that teaches JKD at one of the local gyms and from his home. He is the most unassuming fella you would see. A big gentle jolly guy, but can put you down and keep you down in an instant. Word of mouth has him busy teaching four days a week. I went to my first session with him in May, and on the way back to the car afterwards, I was just chanting over and over "Don't Puke Don't Puke Don't Puke!" :)
Between this divorce and finishing my thesis, I don't have the time that I would like to have to attend each week, but I make it when I can. Do you teach DT to any civilians also, or just LEO's?

We do a lot of submission grappling. Consisting of joint locks and such, as well as your come-a-longs and pressure points.

Normally just to LEO's because my schedule is hectic also. I will make exceptions for friends etc. The problem is that civilian programs focus on defend and retreat. This is contrary to an LEO program. LEO's are the predators, we are the aggressors and we are pushing forward until we win. Different goals require different tactics.

The only martial arts that I really can say that I have paid to learn is Jeet Koon Do. I wish that I had the job schedule to keep a regular consistency going with it. I was a highschool wrestler, and it has come in handy many times. I don't know too many locks that I would really try in a fight.

JKD is a varied art, really depends on the instructor, who their instructor was, and if it is a JKD school or a JKD concepts school, which generally means that multiple artforms may be incorporated, and you use what works, discard what does not.

One I studied with for a while had some truly amazing fighters training under him, uinfortunately an injury and subsequently my academy and work schedule have kept me from returning. If anyone is in NYC area, PM me if info is wanted, though I hear the school has moved but is still in Brooklyn. Once my schedule allows I plan to look him up again. He teaches a blend of Brazillian JuJitsu, American Boxing, Thai Boxing, Savate and (for weapons) Doce Pares (which is surprisingly useful with the asp or straight baton)
The different arts each have their appropriate use, largely determined by the range (distance) from the opponent at the moment.

JKD is a varied art, really depends on the instructor, who their instructor was, and if it is a JKD school or a JKD concepts school, which generally means that multiple artforms may be incorporated, and you use what works, discard what does not.

One I studied with for a while had some truly amazing fighters training under him, uinfortunately an injury and subsequently my academy and work schedule have kept me from returning. If anyone is in NYC area, PM me if info is wanted, though I hear the school has moved but is still in Brooklyn. Once my schedule allows I plan to look him up again. He teaches a blend of Brazillian JuJitsu, American Boxing, Thai Boxing, Savate and (for weapons) Doce Pares (which is surprisingly useful with the asp or straight baton)
The different arts each have their appropriate use, largely determined by the range (distance) from the opponent at the moment.

It is good that you found a good school. That is a rare thing nowadays.

The hours of this job didn't bend to the times that classes were held.

Yep. It's not always easy to find a school that provides a decent curriculum, quality instruction, a workable schedule, and good training partners. Then, you also have to worry about balancing a workout regiment with other priorities (family, friends, job, second job, school, etc) - can be pretty tough to do!

Submission grappling....

I had just told my husband that since its been ___ years (hahaha) since I took defensive tactics in the academy, I feel like I need some training (just something quick, short-term, maybe one-on-one instruction) but there's so much out there with the different martial arts and all.

Now that this subject has come up - what do YOU recommend for me? I'm fairly petite, and till now never worked for any real high-crime area departments, and it seems ppl around here like to fight..........soooooooo...........figger i better be teached sumtin <lol>

Submission grappling....

I had just told my husband that since its been ___ years (hahaha) since I took defensive tactics in the academy, I feel like I need some training (just something quick, short-term, maybe one-on-one instruction) but there's so much out there with the different martial arts and all.

Now that this subject has come up - what do YOU recommend for me? I'm fairly petite, and till now never worked for any real high-crime area departments, and it seems ppl around here like to fight..........soooooooo...........figger i better be teached sumtin <lol>


Japanese Jiu Jitsu. It is a pretty complete game: great joint locks, balance disruption, sweeps, striking and throws.

Thank you, SPE :)

I will begin looking into that (as we speak).

We're strictly hapkido. If you want anything higher, it's on our own time.


Ahem, there is NOTHING higher than HapKiDo!!!

of course i am slightly bias....

I've been taking it for sometime now, it's a great form of defense/offense. I'm not a LEO, not for along while, so i can't tell you how effective it is on the street, however i do train with 4-5 LEOs. this form works well against standup fighters though :)
-Jon

i assume many of you live in TX because i've seen a lot of TX's in the profile and what not. http://www.carlosmachado.net/machado/home.jsp is the brother of my trainer and are cousins of the Gracie family. the academy/dojo/gym is located in Dallas, TX. but i'm sure there are tons around in your guy's area.
-Jon

BJJ would be great if it wasn't for all the rolling around on the ground. I'm too beautiful to get my face stomped into the pavement by BG's mates :D

I got started in shootfighting in 1993 and have sine trained with, Chuck Liddell, Scott Adams, Eugene Jackson, Tim Lajick to name a few. Was planing on competeing in NAGA(north american grappling association) this winter, but it looks like I'll be in the PSP academy.

i assume many of you live in TX because i've seen a lot of TX's in the profile and what not. http://www.carlosmachado.net/machado/home.jsp is the brother of my trainer and are cousins of the Gracie family. the academy/dojo/gym is located in Dallas, TX. but i'm sure there are tons around in your guy's area.
-Jon

I'm a BJJ fan, but I must say, I steer clear of the big name training facilities. It all depends on what you're looking for, I suppose. A big name place like Machado or Gracie, while great practitioners in their own right, they're rarely actually at the academy. As a beginner student, do you honestly think you'll be training with Carlos Machado or one of the Gracie's? You won't be training with them, but you'll certainly be paying like you were!

One last point..... There are HUGE differences between the martial arts and defensive arts or tactics. Your ability to kick *** does not make you a martial artist!

I think grappling is very effective. However, when you mention submission the general rule of thumb followed by those in the martial art community would imply that you intend to take a "perp" to the ground and effect a lock, choke, or break. A choking technique is the norm. I taught grappling techniques to security and law enforcement officers. I would caution you with taking someone to the ground. This could put you in a dangerous situation. For example I have a good friend who does fugitive recovery he had to take a guy down and was able to do so however he did not see the guy’s brother come up from behind him. Without going into detail he had a very bad few years after this incident. Grapplers love going to the ground on a one on one situation however they will prefer to stay on their feet in a "street" environment for as long as possible. You would be better off learning to control the individual while remaining on your feet utilizing locking techniques. If you are looking for classes tell the instructor what the purpose of the training is for that way a program could be tailored toward your needs. Your best bet is to seek training in either the Japanese or Chinese martial arts for they are known for the grappling skills you are seeking. If you find a school PM me and I’ll be glad to check it out for you. I mean that with all due respect. Unfortunately there are a lot of “instructors” out there who have given themselves that title. Good luck wish you well in your search.

I've trained in striking and grappling/wrestling arts. I like both and I feel that both are equally important to know these days. IMO - I think the best schools are the ones that offer a high level of both. Schools designated as MMA or Mixed Martial Arts. If I had to take only one, though, it would be Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Yes, most of the training has you on the ground and yes this is one place you don't want to be with multiple BGs around you, but the more you get into this art, the better you are at stopping a takedown attempt. You will also learn a great amount of Judo and joint manipulation/locking by training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (standing grappling). Before BJJ, I had only practiced striking arts - ground fighting was a new and scary/sobering experience. No more sparring as I knew it, it was "rolling" and it was mentally and physically taxing, and for a while, I hated it. I've attended Yin Style Ba-Gua, Shaolin, Xing Yi, Russian Systema, Kuntao Silat, and Karate demos/classes, and I've noticed a suprising amount of similar techniques among the 'striking' arts. Basically, shop around - most schools will offer a free class (observation or participation) to let you see how it goes - be selective!. "Big name" schools have disadvantages as well as advantages, but ultimately it is what you make of it. A big name in martial arts does not necessarily equate to great instruction. Also, I would let the instructors know that you're a LEO. I've heard Hapkido and Jeet Kune Do alot in this thread - what determines the type of training offered in departments? Is there a person designated as the 'self-defense' instructor and is he/she the one that dictates the style? Is there a general 'art' that is taught in all academies/departments (pressure point control)?

In our academy we get 3 days of SSGT, which is like Brazilian Jiu-jitsu for the complete idiot. It is well worth your time if ya ever get the chance and you're in the southeast US. Time better spent than our week in PPCT IMHO. google Strategic Self-Defense and Grappling Tactics if you're interested.

http://i3.tinypic.com/zjtm4h.jpg

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