Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

Just kidding! Trying to get folks to look at this. Seriously though, how many DT Instructors we got here? What systems?

I teach DT, ASP, Tac-Folder as well as edged weapon defense from Kali-Silat. I have never met a DT Instructor that I haven't learned something from.
Maybe we can exchange ideas on how to help "those who don't train regularly" because of time constraints or whatever.

I saw a post on Hagannah. Some one commented on Krav Maga, Paul with SPE Tactical has some great material on his website.

What do you do to stay proficient? Any good training drills?
Do you have a particular move/technique that has proven very useful? What about one that hasn't worked well that the academy stuffs down your throat?

I don't believe there is a such thing as the "Perfect System" I just believe it is important that we train regularly in DT. The individual officer that is the "Complete Weapon System" that doesn't rely solely on one tool, or one technique and has the Survival Mindset is the officer that I look up to.

Just looking for ideas. Not trying to hack off anyone. :D

I'm a Master in "Owlkikyoass". :D Nice to see you posting.

I'm a Master in "Owlkikyoass". :D Nice to see you posting.

Bwahaha!! That's a good one!

Our son that is 13 months old has the middle name "Rei" Japanese for courtesy. He got that because my wife wouldn't go for "Qix-Ya'az"! :D

Bwahaha!! That's a good one!

Our son that is 13 months old has the middle name "Rei" Japanese for courtesy. He got that because my wife wouldn't go for "Qix-Ya'az"! :DOh, that's beautiful and I am sure he is a handsome boy!!! I love it.

Oh, that's beautiful and I am sure he is a handsome boy!!! I love it.

Yup, but he must look like his momma! He's 5 of 5 and all but him are active in the martial arts. He will be too soon. He is already swinging the rattan!!

Training the lazy and listless officers among us is a virtual impossibility. They will feign injuries and bleed you dry on workman's comp. I have a night shift now with very motivated people so training with them is easy.

Personally, I call them in individually and ask them what their physical limitations are. Then I show them techniques that work well for their size, strength and level of fitness. I dont try to make them conform to a set technique etc. A weapon (or technique in this case) is only as effective as the person weilding it. It is important that they are comfortable with the particular technique.

DT is just one of many topics that I have to cover with them so each individual officer does not get as much training as I would like them to have.

SPE, you have mail my Bruddah! :D

I'm a follower of Rex Kwan Do. Now... bow to your sensai!

I'm a follower of Rex Kwan Do. Now... bow to your sensai!


DT4EMS<--------- (In the bow position) :D :D

Since the DT section of this forum gets viewed far fewer times that most other areas, I fear that many officers are relying on their wits (and dumb luck)to get them through a conflict.

It is funny that we train obsessively with firearms even though only a relatively small percentage of officers will ever have to use them. As for DT, 100% of officers will have to physically subdue a suspect in the course of their duties (unless they are policing nuns); however, most officers do nothing to prepare themselves. I guess guns are just more fun to play with...lol ;)

well, the hard core facts is that most officers are lazy and won't admit that they do not have what it takes to train hard daily. Be it because of life struggles, work, family etc... because learning to shoot a gun takes less time to learn then how to subdue a suspect or learn to defend oneself properly... Whch in my opinion is a lifetime of study.

Most officers will not admit that in a one on one situation if they had to rely on h2h or cqc they would wind up on the loosing end w/ someone who really knows how to throw down. the small percentage of officers who train frequently, or works out in the gym and sculpts his / her body has a better chance then the average officer who does neither. Its all in the attitude not the gun belt. A radio may go dead, a partner may go down (hopefully not) and back up may not be fast enough and the asp, gun, spray may not be an option that leaves empty hand for the final test of strength.

Let it be known
Spec Officer

well, the hard core facts is that most officers are lazy and won't admit that they do not have what it takes to train hard daily. Be it because of life struggles, work, family etc... because learning to shoot a gun takes less time to learn then how to subdue a suspect or learn to defend oneself properly... Whch in my opinion is a lifetime of study.

Most officers will not admit that in a one on one situation if they had to rely on h2h or cqc they would wind up on the loosing end w/ someone who really knows how to throw down. the small percentage of officers who train frequently, or works out in the gym and sculpts his / her body has a better chance then the average officer who does neither. Its all in the attitude not the gun belt. A radio may go dead, a partner may go down (hopefully not) and back up may not be fast enough and the asp, gun, spray may not be an option that leaves empty hand for the final test of strength.

Let it be known
Spec Officer

Very nicely put.

well, the hard core facts is that most officers are lazy and won't admit that they do not have what it takes to train hard daily. Be it because of life struggles, work, family etc... because learning to shoot a gun takes less time to learn then how to subdue a suspect or learn to defend oneself properly... Whch in my opinion is a lifetime of study.

Most officers will not admit that in a one on one situation if they had to rely on h2h or cqc they would wind up on the loosing end w/ someone who really knows how to throw down. the small percentage of officers who train frequently, or works out in the gym and sculpts his / her body has a better chance then the average officer who does neither. Its all in the attitude not the gun belt. A radio may go dead, a partner may go down (hopefully not) and back up may not be fast enough and the asp, gun, spray may not be an option that leaves empty hand for the final test of strength.

Let it be known
Spec Officer

Very well said. :D

I'll jump into the fray; I would like an opinion on DT, ASP or PR24 baton? My personal preference is the PR-24 that I feel is more versatile than the ASP.

The PR 24 is a useful weapon; however, it is bulky. During a struggle, it can hinder an officer's movement and even fall out of the ring, becoming accessible to the suspect. With the asp this is rarely a problem and no one forgets an asp in their car.

I am sure that you will mention the expandable version of the PR 24 next It is true that it is more compact; however, it is so light that it is useless as an impact weapon. I am an instructor in both the asp (expandable baton) and the PR 24.

I would have to say the ASP is better than the PR-24. Not for every person, but for most.

The I have trained with the PR-24 for years (as a Tonfa also) the problem with it, is just like most DT training, the average officer doesn't train with it and uses it like a "club" anyway.

I personally train in FMA (Kali-Silat) and found my straight stick/ASP to be just as versatile as a PR-24. I can do takedowns, locks etc with it. I am an ASP Instructor as well and have taken the Advanced PR-24 course twice.

Sometimes the problem with the PR-24 is it is left in the car.

The beauty of training with a straight stick is it will transfer to the blade and to empty hand. What I mean is the movements you do can be done with or without a stick in your hand. The collapsed baton can travel the same lines as an open baton thereby "buying you a second" to transfer weapons or create space to better defend yourself or effect the arrest.

It is not always the weapon that is the problem. Officers can rely too much on a particular weapon only to have it fail, because it was not accessible during the combative situation.

Just like the OPN (Orcutt Police Nunchukas) a great tool, but people failed to train with them.

I'm a follower of Rex Kwan Do. Now... bow to your sensai!

I don't think anyone got that but me, lol.

No, I sent him rep for it. Napoleon D is so funny, but most people either hate it or love it. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground with that movie.

Hello, I have to agree with the aformentioned statement of the asp or straight colapsable baton being more versitile and easier an intermediete weapon vs. the PR24. Im not a large fan of the PR24 (tonfa) to me just too much extra baggage.

Also trained in FMA/SILAT etc... i find the useage of my ASP to be far more a better weapon to use in almost any situation I don't need my firearm in. I mean when deployed its a pretty elusive and better yet a very intimidating weapon... who the hell wants hit by that steel bar? LOL !

I have a question? Im teaching a DT's class this Wed afternoon covering edged weapons to Police Officers as an awareness tactics. Now most of us know in the situation a knife or any edged weapon comes into play the force continum just rose to lethal or deadly force! I think each officer in this situation will do what is comfortable to them to be truthful about 10% of police officers actually train continuesly outside of the regimented or required DT's class they have to take a year. Im going to offer other avenues using the baton / asp as a less lethal approach to disarming a knife weilding attacker. Im gonna catch some slack and i expect it.. especially from the old guys on the dept.. I'd say in most general incidents if im confronted w/ a knife im shooting 1st asking question later. But what if its a 10-96 subject or an elderly lady or juvenile etc... and your other intermediete weapons are not as available? What if you have to think fast and you deploy your asp or better yet its already deployed? So im just going to teach a small maybe 1hour block on defense against an edged weapon using the asp. It will be pretty simple to the point... Focus on the "defang" the snake concept... deal w/ the weapon finish the man.....

Does anyone have any comments on this ?

Thanks

Kailat

I think it's a valid training theory to teach the "defang the snake" concept. Our agency just finished a 4-hr block on edged weapon defense and we covered the concept as well.

Sadly, most officers do not train in DT outside of mandated training. I am finding that the new guys coming on board do have an interest and I try to provide additional training for them.

In our Edged Weapon Defense class, I got the "go to guns" theory from every class. I threw the bull**** flag and challenged them to get a redgun into play versus me in a couple scenarios. They all got their throats slashed...and I'm a slow, old fart.

As far as training on edged weapons, I think you should cover first, the defensive survival aspect, then address empty hand, baton, and disarming. As with any cop class, the KISS theory is paramount!

Hi guys,

I just wanted to share that I'm a PPCT Dt instructor. Very shortly I will have MDTS and MEB instructor's certificates.