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hihi
07-11-04, 08:31 PM
In april I bought a car off EBAY and received it in June.
The seller stated the car ran good and had no problems.
I received the car and it is junk. Has a serious valve problems with the engine and needs replaced. The transmission grinds and it has an exhaust leak.
So I got it in June and it has been in the shop ever since.
Basically my mechanic says it needs over $3,000 to get it running right.
I have filed a claim with the internet fraud department and am awaiting their responce on what to do.
What can I do legally because this guy did not disclose this information.
I have saved all emails from him and several of them states "car has no problems and runs good".
The shipper who picked it up even wrote a report on how badly it ran and he had trouble loading on the trailer.
The car is a 99 3000GT. I paid $7550 for it.
Basically the car belongs in the junk yard.
Seller lives in Georgia. I live in Colorado.
I am willing to goto Georgia to resolve this.


txinvestigator1
07-11-04, 08:33 PM
link to the auction please

How did you pay?

Also post your problem here on ebay (http://forums.ebay.com/db1/forum.jsp?forum=110)

hihi
07-11-04, 08:43 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2472998680&category=6350

I have filed a fruad complaint with ebay and they referred me to the IFCC.gov
Before I paid the guy I made him fax me a written statement stating the condition of the vehicle and he did. Said it ran good with no problems.

I heard it was illegal to sell like this and not disclose information.

I paid with money order.


txinvestigator1
07-11-04, 08:58 PM
It does not appear he is a dealer, so I do not know if the laws in his state require disclosure or not. No disclosure is required in my state by private sellers.

He made no representation in the auction regarding the condition of the engine. With your emails, you could always sue him, but I see no criminal recourse for you.

When buying a large ticket item, it is best to use Paypal or a credit card, as it gives you buyer protection. And when purchasing a car, it is best to pay the deposit, then either go inspect the car yourself, or before you bid hire someone to inspect it.

By paying with a money order and not inspecting the car prior to purchase you have really limited your options.

Have you had ANY contact from the seller since?

Recondo
07-11-04, 09:04 PM
HIHI,
1st, you need to review the entire auction & determine if he allowed a time frame for inspection in person or by local contact.."if" he did in anyway or by email to you, & you did not take advantage of that, you may have waived your right to then complain over the condition received. I know this from personal experience.
I am certainly not saying you got what you paid for,doesnt sound like it, but 'good condition' / 'runs good' to one person can mean something else to another, its a matter of perspective & actual vehicle knowledge. You will need to be very certain of his wording in the auction & that which he wrote to you, he may have given himself a backdooor exit you didnt catch.
This is, all in all, a civil matter, one that you would have to persue in his local court, since the actual receiving of funds & vehicle location,etc all took place in his local. You will need all your documentation & if outside of the legal allowable small claim monetary limit, you will need an attorney. However, before you venture this route, you need to formally address these issues directly with him, explain your concerns & what your mechanic stated versus what is listed in the auction, etc. Failing any resolution to your attempts there (the courts will ask if you tried to resolve this ahead of being in court) you will have no other choice but to sue...
What you cannot probably do, is file a successful 'fraud' charge against him, those cases are for scum bags who have a blatant & repeated patterns of fraudulent dealings, outright scams, etc, ...the fact you actually recieved the vehicle demonstrates that he didnt steal your funds, nor is he attempting to sell the same car over & over again skimming $$ along the way, which would be illegal, you simply disagree over the actual condition..something you need to discuss with him directly, maybe simply ask for the cost or a % of the repair cost refunded to you as a good will gesture..best of luck!
Recondo

hihi
07-11-04, 09:18 PM
I have tried so many times to resolve this with him. We have exchanged over 50 emails.
He is ignoring me now.
I have asked for help repairing the car and everything.
He says there was nothing wrong with it when he dropped it off at the Walmart where the shipper picked it up.
However, the shipper called me and told me how junk it was when he picked it up.
I was just contacted last week by someone who paid $500 for a guitar from this same guy for their child and never received it.
The IFCC.gov says if an item was significantly misrepresented I have ground to work on.
The auction was for Free S&H with buy it now, which I did.

I am sure that is why the car was on EBAY because it could not sell locally and was junk.

There has to be something for me to do otherwise I could make a killing buying junk cars and selling them as perfect over the internet.

Also, a car with a blown engine, grinding transmission, and an exhaust leak is in no way a fine running vehicle in anyones book.

Again, I only paid for the car and had it shipped to me without me seeing it because he wrote to me saying there is nothing wrong with it and it runs good.

txinvestigator1
07-11-04, 09:25 PM
I understand your frustration, but arguing with us will not fix your problem. The guy has a feedback of 337, 97.5% positive. Visit the forum on Ebay, and file a non-performing seller alert.

The car was not represented on Ebay as running well. IMO, your best course of action is a lawsuit.

What has the seller said in his emails?

hihi
07-11-04, 09:42 PM
Basically, he said the car runs good and does not have any problems.
I am all for a lawsuit. CAnt let him get away with costing me thousands.

I have filed everything with ebay and they are reviewing this case.

He has lied to me so many times.
I can forward you the emails and see what you think of them.

darrell
07-11-04, 09:44 PM
Basically, he said the car runs good and does not have any problems.
I am all for a lawsuit. CAnt let him get away with costing me thousands.

I have filed everything with ebay and they are reviewing this case.

He has lied to me so many times.
I can forward you the emails and see what you think of them.


I am sorry you got bent over and driven home but DID YOU NOT READ WHAT TX SAID????

hihi
07-11-04, 09:50 PM
I am sorry you got bent over and driven home but DID YOU NOT READ WHAT TX SAID????

I have, but I am just stating what happend so you all can make an educated decision.
If anyone wants I can forward the emails so you can see what we talked about.

Stang8URMPRT
07-11-04, 09:53 PM
just a side note...paypal will only help out if you did not recieve whatever you payed for with them...they do not touch anything that was "not properly described". I basically had the same thing happen with a transmission that i bought. The guy was origonally cooperative, but now is just ignoring me. Going to small claims court on tuesday.

sbrad
07-11-04, 09:58 PM
Escrow, baby. Next time.

txinvestigator1
07-11-04, 10:06 PM
just a side note...paypal will only help out if you did not recieve whatever you payed for with them...they do not touch anything that was "not properly described". I basically had the same thing happen with a transmission that i bought. The guy was origonally cooperative, but now is just ignoring me. Going to small claims court on tuesday.


Not true, I have been refunded for items "not as described"

txinvestigator1
07-11-04, 10:07 PM
I can forward you the emails and see what you think of them.

Nah, your attorney can sort throught it.

Recondo
07-12-04, 12:11 AM
Ebay will not refund you your $7500 I can almost bet my house & kids on that, they are slow to move on most things costing a whole lot less, ...it took them 6 months to move on the big laptop computer scam that screwed thousdands of folks out of alot of $$ who never did get refunded or thier item. 6-9 months is average for items around $100. if & when. All ebay can do is warn the seller of his actions & they might take action if enough folks come forward (like everyone he's delt with), I have never seen anyone terminated from ebay over fraud claims against them & I have been on ebay & ebay motors as buyer & seller for 5yrs, if it does happen, then he'll just change ID's and start a new.
In your case HIHI, you have been given some solid advice from folks who have been there, it may not be exactly what you wanted to hear, but you came here for such advice, correct??... If you have exchanged emails & tried to negotiate a way out of this, your only recourse now, as already stated several times, is a law suit, you will need all your info, documents, statements, mechanic review, pics, auction printout, etc,
I will tell you, in similar cases such as yours, that actually went to court, the repairs had to be performed 1st, then the buyer was issued a judgement for the cost of repairs made, not all, but those I have seen & followed anyway.. it maybe hard to get a refund out of him, if the title has already changed hands as well, all you can do is go talk with a lawyer & determine your next course of action..if your waiting for all of these seperate agentcies, ebay depts, etc to come to your immediate rescue, out of the thousands of compaints they get each & everyday, your in for a long & sad disappointment..sadly for you, thats the way it is, so its up to you to drive on or move on!
Recondo

mcsap
07-12-04, 12:15 AM
Don't buy a car you can't touch first.

txinvestigator1
07-12-04, 12:16 AM
Ebay will not refund you your $7500



You are correct. Ebay will not refund squat. They are simply providing a venue.

Whitewolf1970
07-12-04, 12:31 AM
Shoulda use the bank's check because they'll jump in and fight. That happened to me 3 times and 2 I got the refund back plus damages from the vitamin supply company. I didn't ask why paid me for damages..twice the amount I paid each. The 3rd is on the way, and it came from eBay in end of April. eBay never help that much, TX, you are lucky but now this year, things changed, too many liars on the eBay. I paid for the stupid video card for undisclosed amount, but less than $100. I filed and all 3 didn't do nuthin; eBay, PayPal, and SquareTrade. So in July this month, I filed with my bank since I used Paypal with the seller, and they DID jump like they're bounty hunters. They contacted the NC's PD and others...whoa and forced the Paypal to give them the bank account that the seller used to retrieve my money from the bank into his OWN bank! And address and phone number were given to IFCC and to the bank to file against him. As for him, the vehicle was not as described, he needs to file with the lawyer and go in the court since if that vehicle is expensive that he paid, the seller is a dirty business guy who sold his car to HiHi so I reckon he probably bought a new car. I don't think of buying any vehicle or house from eBay. Too risky. I stay low with small items only but I'm plannin' to sell Treo 600 cellphone without charger/headphone but with CD and Manual books plus other booklets it came with. I'm sorry, HiHi, you suffered what other buyers suffer as well; pain and anger. Some sellers are ding-dong wombats! <sigh>

Whitewolf1970
07-12-04, 12:33 AM
Don't buy a car you can't touch first.

Yep, mcsap is right. Best to buy around here in your area that the dealers sell, not eBay. Too risky.

hihi
07-12-04, 02:58 AM
I paid $7,550 for the car. I paid with a money order from my bank which is Rocky Mountain Law Enforcement Federal Credit union. Not sure if they could do anything about it.
Basically I will wait and see what the IFCC has to say about it and go from there.
Thanks for all the advice.

PS. Seller also left me negative feedback on ebay stating that "expect a perfect 120k mile car?" Car was a 99 and he said it ran good but I got taken pretty bad on this one.

Whitewolf1970
07-12-04, 04:01 AM
PS. Seller also left me negative feedback on ebay stating that "expect a perfect 120k mile car?" Car was a 99 and he said it ran good but I got taken pretty bad on this one.

I would just put a BAD feedback at the seller who stole the money and ran after failure to deliver the goods. And reported him to the eBay Safety...blah, since they don't do anythin' to help. Then eBay shouldn't be in a business. Argh..M.O. from the bank L.E. union <sigh>? It's a difficult one. I wouldn't trust M.O. or cash. Put a feedback as "He sold me a junkie!" It'll lower his sellin' points, but I doubt that the positive feedbacks of that seller are legal. He may put positive feedbacks to make it look like many suppose-to-be customers bought items from him so to make him "popular"...duh to criminal sellers! Good luck!

MYSTICGAL
07-12-04, 08:11 AM
Here is my advise for you. I am NOT a cop, but my husband and I buy alot of cars on e-bay and car parts. This has happened to us before so here is what we had to do.

First, did you file a complaint with e-bay? you need to do that. Then, if you paid by pay-pal, file a complain with them as well. Also with your credit card company.

Also, did you speak with the seller about this? What did they say? Let e-bay help you. They have fixed alot of our problems with bad sellers.

You can also leave negitive feed back about the seller. if nothing else, the negitive feed back will discourage anyone else from become a victim by this mis-leading seller.

But all in all, make sure you get intouch with e-bay. They are a huge help.

We deal with classic cars and muscle cars so our standerds are slightly differant, but a rip off is a rip off. Good luck.

mcsap
07-12-04, 11:57 AM
My brother bought a car on E-Bay and he got burned. Fortunately, it was a dealer and he was able to find at least 2 things wrong that claimed were ok. He had paid by credit card as well. Bottom line is that he took the car back and got his money back. I had gone with him to pick up the car but told him he would be STUPID to ever do that again.

Unless you are looking for a 63 split window Corvette, buy something in your local area.

warlock
07-12-04, 12:05 PM
As one who has experienced fraud on ebay before, I can assure that ebay will do absolutely **** when it comes to getting your money.

The best thing to do would've been to put the money in escrow until you verified that you recieved what was advertised. Or if he wanted the money straight up, to use a form of payment that would be insured against fraud.

I wouldn't be buying cars that I couldn't walk up to, drive, or bring to a machanic before buying.

tenfour
07-12-04, 12:58 PM
Some people will include in their auction something like, Satisfaction gaurunteed etc. If the vehicle is not exactly as described upon pickup or delivery etc etc you can get your money back. Thats something I would try and get worked out before purchasing the vehicle, maybe even making up some kind of contract, then if he screws you, you can screw him.

txinvestigator1
07-12-04, 07:57 PM
I paid $7,550 for the car. I paid with a money order from my bank which is Rocky Mountain Law Enforcement Federal Credit union. Not sure if they could do anything about it.
Basically I will wait and see what the IFCC has to say about it and go from there.
Thanks for all the advice.

PS. Seller also left me negative feedback on ebay stating that "expect a perfect 120k mile car?" Car was a 99 and he said it ran good but I got taken pretty bad on this one.


He left negative feedback because you left it for him. That is how Ebay works. Not suppose to work that way, but it does. It is called retalitory feedback.

Feedback should always be the LAST thing you do. It has a tendency to de-motivate buyers and sellers