03-03-04, 02:02 PM
click here (http://www.streamload.com/jmstein77/Kerry2.mp3) to listen.
03-03-04, 02:18 PM
I like how he mentions what he has done is in violation of the laws of war. But you know what EVERY SINGLE officer candidate is taught? You are not required to obey an unlawful order. Apparently his convictions aren't strong enough, he had no problem following those orders when it got him some nice shiny metals.
03-03-04, 03:09 PM
Here's another speech by Kerry and other veterans against the Vietnam war:
03-03-04, 03:11 PM
Most of those soldiers in the who testified in the winter soldier investigation were later proven to be liars. Better come up with a better link than that.
03-03-04, 03:19 PM
Well Norm if you listened longer you can hear John Kerry's speech. It starts around 5:20...
Also show me who "proved" them to be liars and which of those "winter soldiers" shown in the clip were liars...
I would like to talk to you a little bit about what the result is of the feelings these men carry with them after coming back from Vietnam. The country doesn't know it yet, but it has created a monster, a monster in the form of millions of men who have been taught to deal and to trade in violence, and who are given the chance to die for the biggest nothing in history; men who have returned with a sense of anger and a sense of betrayal which no one has yet grasped.
As a veteran and one who felt this anger, I would like to talk about it. We are angry because we feel we have been used it the worst fashion by the administration of this country.
In 1970, at West Point, Vice President Agnew said, "some glamorize the criminal misfits of society while our best men die in Asian rice paddies to preserve the freedom which most of those misfits abuse," and this was used as a rallying point for our effort in Vietnam.
But for us, as boys in Asia whom the country was supposed to support, his statement is a terrible distortion from which we can only draw a very deep sense of revulsion. Hence the anger of some of the men who are here in Washington today. It is a distortion because we in no way consider ourselves the best men of this country, because those he calls misfits were standing up for us in a way that nobody else in this country dared to, because so many who have died would have returned to this country to join the misfits in their efforts to ask for an immediate withdrawal from South Vietnam, because so many of those best men have returned as quadriplegics and amputees, and they lie forgotten in Veterans' Administration hospitals in this country which fly the flag which so many have chosen as their own personal symbol. And we cannot consider ourselves America's best men when we are ashamed of and hated what we were called on to do in Southeast Asia.
In our opinion, and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam which could happen that realistically threatens the United States of America. And to attempt to justify the loss of one American life in Vietnam, Cambodia, or Laos by linking such loss to the preservation of freedom, which those misfits supposedly abuse, is to us the height of criminal hypocrisy, and it is that kind of hypocrisy which we feel has torn this country apart.
We found that not only was it a civil war, an effort by a people who had for years been seeking their liberation from any colonial influence whatsoever, but, also, we found that the Vietnamese, whom we had enthusiastically molded after our own image, were hard-put to take up the fight against the threat we were supposedly saving them from.
We found most people didn't even know the difference between communism and democracy. They only wanted to work in rice paddies without helicopters strafing them and bombs with napalm burning their villages and tearing their country apart. They wanted everything to do with the war, particularly with this foreign presence of the United States of America, to leave them alone in peace, and they practiced the art of survival by siding with whichever military force was present at a particular time, be it Viet Cong, North Vietnamese or American.
We found also that, all too often, American men were dying in those rice paddies for want of support from their allies. We saw first hand how monies from American taxes were used for a corrupt dictatorial regime. We saw that many people in this country had a one-sided idea of who was kept free by the flag, and blacks provided the highest percentage of casualties. We saw Vietnam ravaged equally by American bombs and search-and-destroy missions as well as by Viet Cong terrorism, - and yet we listened while this country tried to blame all of the havoc on the Viet Cong.
We rationalized destroying villages in order to save them. We saw America lose her sense of morality as she accepted very coolly a My Lai, and refused to give up the image of American soldiers who hand out chocolate bars and chewing gum.
We learned the meaning of free-fire zones--shooting anything that moves--and we watched while America placed a cheapness on the lives of orientals.
We watched the United States falsification of body counts, in fact the glorification of body counts. We listened while, month after month, we were told the back of the enemy was about to break. We fought using weapons against "oriental human beings" with quotation marks around that. We fought using weapons against those people which I do not believe this country would dream of using, were we fighting in the European theater. We watched while men charged up hills because a general said that hill has to be taken, and, after losing one platoon, or two platoons, they marched away to leave the hill for reoccupation by the North Vietnamese. We watched pride allow the most unimportant battles to be blown into extravaganzas, because we couldn't lose, and we couldn't retreat, and because it didn't matter how many American bodies were lost to prove that point, and so there were Hamburger Hills and Khe Sanhs and Hill 81s and Fire Base 6s, and so many others.
Now we are told that the men who fought there must watch quietly while American lives are lost so that we can exercise the incredible arrogance of "Vietnamizing" the Vietnamese.
Each day, to facilitate the process by which the United States washes her hands of Vietnam, someone has to give up his life so that the United States doesn't have to admit something that the entire world already knows, so that we can't say that we have made a mistake. Someone has to die so that President Nixon won't be, and these are his words, "the first President to lose a war."
We are asking Americans to think about that, because how do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake? We are here in Washington to say that the problem of this war is not just a question of war and diplomacy. It is part and parcel of everything that we are trying, as human beings, to communicate to people in this country--the question of racism, which is rampant in the military, and so many other questions, such as the use of weapons: the hypocrisy in our taking umbrage at the Geneva Conventions and using that as justification for a continuation of this war, when we are more guilty than any other body of violations of those Geneva Conventions; in the use of free-fire zones; harassment-interdiction fire, search-and-destroy missions; the bombings; the torture of prisoners; all accepted policy by many units in South Vietnam. That is what we are trying to say. It is part and parcel of everything.
An American Indian friend of mine who lives in the Indian Nation of Alcatraz put it to me very succinctly: He told me how, as a boy on an Indian reservation, he had watched television, and he used to cheer the cowboys when they came in and shot the Indians, and then suddenly one day he stopped in Vietnam and he said, "my God, I am doing to these people the very same thing that was done to my people," and he stopped. And that is what we are trying to say, that we think this thing has to end.
We are here to ask, and we are here to ask vehemently, where are the leaders of our country? Where is the leadership? We're here to ask where are McNamara, Rostow, Bundy, Gilpatrick, and so many others? Where are they now that we, the men they sent off to war, have returned? These are the commanders who have deserted their troops. And there is no more serious crime in the laws of war. The Army says they never leave their wounded. The Marines say they never even leave their dead. These men have left all the casualties and retreated behind a pious shield of public rectitude. They've left the real stuff of their reputations bleaching behind them in the sun in this country....
We wish that a merciful God could wipe away our own memories of that service as easily as this administration has wiped away their memories of us. But all that they have done, and all that they can do by this denial, is to make more clear than ever our own determination to undertake one last mission: To search out and destroy the last vestige of this barbaric war; to pacify our own hearts; to conquer the hate and fear that have driven this country these last ten years and more. And more. And so, when, thirty years from now, our brothers go down the street without a leg, without an arm, or a face, and small boys ask why, we will be able to say "Vietnam" and not mean a desert, not a filthy obscene memory, but mean instead where America finally turned, and where soldiers like us helped it in the turning.
03-03-04, 04:34 PM
I did a search for this "Vietnam Veterans Against the War" and found their website. These guys are communists and I would not trust anything they say.
Check out there website and remember that John Kerry was leading this organization.
03-03-04, 04:41 PM
Yes Sex Slaves! ;) Wooo Hooo!
I like how they spell America too in one of the articles...Amerikkka. Very Patriotic and in support. :rolleyes: Unless I am misunderstanding.
03-03-04, 05:17 PM
sixgun, the organization you are referring to is a radical break away of what organization Kerry belonged to.
03-03-04, 05:25 PM
Lets not forget http://www.vetsagainstkerry.org/index.html for the other side of the story
03-03-04, 11:41 PM
[QUOTE=kenny J]Also show me who "proved" them to be liars and which of those "winter soldiers" shown in the clip were liars...
ok then (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=\Politics\archive\200403\POL 20040303a.html)
Kerry-Linked Anti-War Group Can't Bury Deceit
By Marc Morano
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
March 03, 2004
(CNSNews.com) - While many former Vietnam veterans support the candidacy of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, there is no sign of the man who appeared with Kerry on a nationally televised news program in 1971 to allege widespread atrocities by U.S. soldiers in Vietnam.
That man, Al Hubbard, remains out of the spotlight, perhaps because the war record he touted in directing a prominent anti-war group that included Kerry, was fabricated.
Hubbard's deceit, which he later admitted, continues to cast doubt about the truthfulness of the anti-war group's allegations more than three decades after they were leveled. Kerry has yet to either defend or criticize Hubbard during the current campaign. But he continues to stand behind the allegations lodged by Vietnam Veterans Against the War, many of which were included in a book Kerry authored in 1971.
Hubbard was executive director of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) when he appeared with Kerry on NBC's Meet the Press on April 18, 1971. Meet the Press host Lawrence Spivak introduced Hubbard as a former decorated Air Force captain who had spent two years in Vietnam and was wounded in the process.
But just days after the Meet the Press program was televised, NBC News, acting on an anonymous tip, began investigating Hubbard and found his military background to be fraudulent.