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Link (http://www.9news.com/news/article/278707/71/Shooting-at-Aurora-movie-theater)


AURORA - Ten people are dead after a shooting at the Century 16 Movie Theaters at the Aurora Town Center.

There were at least 39 people injured to Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates.

Nicole Williams, with Swedish Medical Center, says the hospital was alerted to a mass casualty incident at 1:15 a.m. Friday.

Williams says the hospital was told to prepare for up to 20 more patients.

According to witnesses, the shooter kicked in the emergency exit door in theater 9, threw some sort of disorienting smoke bomb and started shooting.

9NEWS has crews on scene. This article will be updated as more information is confirmed.

Updated casualties: 14 dead, 50 injured according to local live broadcasts.

Another waste of oxygen makes his presence known.

I'd like to see what kind of theater Emergency Exit door can be kicked in. Most I've seen open out and have steel frames and steel doors with no handles. If it was anything like midnight movies when I was a kid, he got someone to prop it open.

Saw this on Facebook this morning. While I am praying for the people involved, and not in any way saying any of the victims did anything wrong, had just one person been carrying concealed, this most likely would have been a completely different ending.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x8/usmcmstng/similarstories.jpg

MP-

I've said this before during similar instances and I'll say it again here:

I don't know if guns would have done much good here. Just a few people with the right mindset could have successfully rushed this guy and ended it even unarmed. Adding guns without the right tactical/warrior mindset doesn't help.

MP-

I've said this before during similar instances and I'll say it again here:

I don't know if guns would have done much good here. Just a few people with the right mindset could have successfully rushed this guy and ended it even unarmed. Adding guns without the right tactical/warrior mindset doesn't help.

As I understand it, a lot of victims were military. Add in panic from most of the patrons, darkness disrupted by muzzle flash, tear gas/pepper spray canister bangs around the theater. I think it would be luck of location next to exit door he entered more than just having a firearm. It would not surprise me if many of the patrons didn't even know how many shooters there were. It would have been pure chaos. Just me, personally and I'm not a LEO or tactician, I don't like people behind me that I can't routinely scan so I tend to sit where I can see everyone and the entrance/exits. In this case, that would have been good for living, bad for responding plus most people go with loved ones and family which is where my priority would be. I'm certainly not going to just stand up and start shooting from the same position as my wife or kids and without a crystal clear picture of what's going on, I'm not going to try and flank him while leaving family with active shooter. Just being honest about what I would do. I know police do a lot of on-duty training for active shooters especially after Ft. Hood but I don't know how much is "off-duty with wife and/or kids" and if it changes the tactics taught. Heck, I don't think I would want anyone to even see me with a gun drawn wearing normal civilian clothes. There are lots of tragic blue-on-blue shootings, let alone officer mistaking good samaritan for active shooter.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of patrons were armed and it wouldn't surprise me if some of them were off-duty police officers. Getting to the gunman, getting a clear shot or rushing would be tough in a crowded theater with panicking people. I'd bet a number of injuries are related to trampling panic and aren't gunshots at all. They call the entrance to a house the "fatal funnel." The AMC and Harkins theaters I go to have a long narrow corridor about 50 feet long of "fatal funnel" to get to the lobby. I don't want to be there and I bet the people at the back of that line are not very patient.

I'd like to know how he was captured. Like the Giffords shooting, after the initial panic, it wouldn't surprise me if he was tackled and taken down before he could check himself out or before the police could. And like the Giffords shooting, I bet the school he was withdrawing from has some disturbing tales to tell about this psychopath.

We're hearing the tragedy now but I am sure there are heroic stories to be told and they will come out, too.

I understand the desire to get out ahead of the "gun control" crowd that will try to exploit this. Just don't think it really would have mattered if guns were less available or if people with better training in the theater could prevent it. The shooter would have gotten guns either way (he had body armor, tear gas grenades and booby trapped his house so legality was not a particular barrier). He had surprise and suicidal motivation to continue. That's a pretty tough "no casualty" response that would have been required to quell the gun control crowd. If the casualties were halved or quartered, by a quicker response, it would still be a mass shooting with a lot of casualties. It would have been nicer if the shooter was killed or shot but in the end, they will point at guns as the reason.

Doesn't appear anyone was armed.

He just walked out and gave up

Doesn't appear anyone was armed.

He just walked out and gave up

This is what makes me think someone armed in that theater would have made a difference. From what I'm hearing he was totally made up to take fire, but everyone knows that being prepared for taking fire and actually TAKING FIRE are two completely different things. I just can't help but believe that had someone started peppering him with a hail of bullets, he would have stopped earlier and beat a retreat. He was obviously NOT suicidal dressed as such, and then walking out and just giving up seems to be more evidence of that.

Well I really doubt having armed people in the theatre could make things worse. I mean if a child is about to get run over by a truck, that's not the time to think you might hurt him if you drop him while trying to move him out of the way.

adding more guns to an active shooting may cause chaos, but when the alternative is a wacko slaughtering trapped people wholesale I really don't see how it can makes things worse. I see no moral advantage to being killed by a nut job thinking he is the joker versus a regular citizen standing up to said nut job.

MP, I think I still disagree. Sources are saying that during the incident, he stopped to reload. I feel confident that you or I, or anyone with a tactical/warrior mindset could have mounted a successful effort to end this, even if unarmed.

A gun does not make someone a warrior. You have to have the mindset to fight for your own life and the lives of the people around you. I've not seen any indication that the people present had that mindset or made any such efforts during the event.

And RWR, you said:


Well I really doubt having armed people in the theatre could make things worse.

I think there's a chance you're wrong about that. The bad guy is head to toe in body armor. So most pistol fire will not be disabling to him.

The wounded/casualty count here was very VERY high for one shooter. That's not due to his skill. That's due to the environment. A full to capacity movie theater nearly guarantees the bad guy that most fired rounds will find A target somewhere in the crowd. You hit someone nearly every time you pull the trigger because the targets are packed so close together in a confined space.

That works in reverse too. If I'm an off duty cop in that theater, and I'm armed, shooter comes in, throws smoke/tear gas and starts shooting. Now we've got complete chaos and pandemonium in there already. Getting a clear line of fire on the shooter is going to be hard if not impossible. People are running everywhere, screaming for help, stampeding away from the gunfire in a chance to save their lives.

If I hit the bad guy, it won't have much effect (which granted, I might not know at the time). But what I DO know is that if I miss, the odds that my round inflicts another civilian casualty are pretty high.

I would need a hell of a clear shot or would have to work my way pretty close before I'd feel right about taking a shot in that situation. It is an absolute tactical nightmare.

@citicop

He may be wearing body armor, but getting shot even when wearing armor can't be fun. In a case in Texas a citizen carrying a concealed weapon at a court house shot an active shooter wearing body armor with a 1911 .45.althought the body armor stopped the bullets, and the legal citizen was then killed, the 45 slugs did put the assailant on his *** and bought time for court deputies to arrive and then kill the shooter in a second gun battle. Simply a delay in the shooters rampage saves lives.

again, your point is valid, but I personally am coming from the idea that when the alternative is being slaughtered even a chance that a bullet might atleast DELAY a shooter is an improvement. Personally I tailor my location choices based on a quick exit from a gathering. At the theatre I set in the front row as to be a seconds jog from the emergency exit. At the mariners games (baseball) I choose a seating box next to a platform over a rail yard. With my retreat plan being to chimmy down a light pole close to the platform into the rail yard and thus bypass the exits that'll be clogged long before I get down the stairs. Location is definitely a better protection then a gun (which I don't carry because I'm not 21 yet) but if one can legally carry I think the victims at least have a chance

At the theatre I set in the front row as to be a seconds jog from the emergency exit.

Which is where this shooter came in, putting you front and center in his line of fire.

Again, if you have it in your mind and heart to fight, you'll do so either with or without a gun. Even two or three guys rushing the suspect unarmed could have ended this sooner than it did.

Nothing magic happens when you hold/carry a gun. You either have the mindset to fight or you don't.

Again, if you have it in your mind and heart to fight, you'll do so either with or without a gun. Even two or three guys rushing the suspect unarmed could have ended this sooner than it did.

Nothing magic happens when you hold/carry a gun. You either have the mindset to fight or you don't.

That is so true. But everything is situational too. A lot also depends on where you are in the theater when it starts.

In the words of Mike Tyson, "Everyone's got a plan..... Until they get hit."

I have no idea what I would have done, but I know I don't cherish the idea of standing toe to toe with a man with an AR-25 with a drum magazine and me with a little .45 handgun.

I've been in some gun battles, military and police so I don't need to prove anything to myself or anyone else, but I wouldn't go so far as to say I would have been a hero. It's hard to speculate when you weren't there in the middle of it.

Which is where this shooter came in, putting you front and center in his line of fire.

Again, if you have it in your mind and heart to fight, you'll do so either with or without a gun. Even two or three guys rushing the suspect unarmed could have ended this sooner than it did.

Nothing magic happens when you hold/carry a gun. You either have the mindset to fight or you don't.

I read that he bought a ticket, exited through the emergency exit and propped it open, geared up and returned (I thought the initial he kicked open sound improbable). Theaters don't alarm their exits otherwise everyone would be evacuating. Twenty years ago this was how kids would see movies free (one would buy ticket, then let 10 more in through emergency exit). Why they haven't figured out how to put an usher there to prevent it is beyond me.

I don't think I would sit in a spot that would lend itself to stopping this. It was over 90 seconds after it started. The mindset that would trigger someone to stop him would also be the mindset worried about seeing all exits/entrances. It's happenstance that he used a particular entrance/exit but I would tend to want to see all of the exits and not give up a viewpoint to be close to a particular one unless that also provided a clear view. If this theater is like any of the ones around here, being close to that emergency exit would mean having my back to everyone in the audience and unable to see the other 3 entrance/exist locations. It's simply not where I am going to be. I don't necessarily want a quick escape route over the ability to think and react to whatever it is.

I agree that people with the proper mindset would be able to stop him if they were close. I'm just not sure the people with that mindset would choose to sit where he came in. Even someone noticing him prop the emergency door open would have got their attention. Watching someone leave through the emergency exit at the beginning of a movie would be something that I would at least be observing I hope. It's weird and out of the ordinary.

Again, why the theater doesn't monitor their emergency exits when they obviously choose not to arm them is going to be the next thing. Expect to see someone standing there for the rest of our lives. I don't think they will arm them because of the chaos it would give teenagers the power to create. The silliest reaction is banning costumes when this guy wasn't even dressed until he returned through the emergency exit. The worst thing he had was dyed red hair. I can get behind banning that but I doubt that would fly.

I wonder how many OWS protests he attended that he owned his own gas mask?

The silliest reaction is banning costumes when this guy wasn't even dressed until he returned through the emergency exit.

It's pretty silly to wear a costume to a movie anyway IMO but I digress.

Like RDS I'm simply not going to comment on what I would do or what should have been done. Two many variables. I really think it would be a decision you would have to make at that time.

Which is where this shooter came in, putting you front and center in his line of fire.

Again, if you have it in your mind and heart to fight, you'll do so either with or without a gun. Even two or three guys rushing the suspect unarmed could have ended this sooner than it did.

Nothing magic happens when you hold/carry a gun. You either have the mindset to fight or you don't.

Very true, I'm not that naive, but I hadn't read about the emergency exit yet though until you posted.

I understand warrior mentality is more important then having a gun, but I would say being able to project that warrior mentality at 25 feet from behind cover is better then rushing an armed and armored assailant who already has a weapon in play. I understand more guns means more potential for collateral damage, I just think when you have an active shooter it becomes the argument of how you get killed by because you'll probably get shot either way.

and just to add a note, id like to throw out my prayers and sympathies for the victims of this horrible rampage.

This is so true....

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll268/jimbellah/military-strategy-may-challenge-military-strategy-demotivational-poster-1274012552.jpg

Doesn't appear anyone was armed.

He just walked out and gave up

It was a posted gun free zone. Law abiding CCW's would leave it in the car.

I read that he looked "SWAT-ish" especially in the dark and that a particularly observant officer noticed something about his gear that caught his eye. They didn't say what it was which is good but kudo's to that officer if that's how the arrest was made. His choice of gear (other than the 100 rnd drum) was very LEOish and I'm wondering if that was his plan for escape. M4/AR-15, Glock .40cal, Remington 870, black ballistic helmet, other ballistic gear. Considering the massive response and confusion, the arresting LEO needs some recognition for spotting the "out of the ordinary" when everything was "out of the ordinary" if that's how it went down. One picture of the shooters car had the rear side window busted/shot out. Not sure how or when that happened.

The AR jammed but they didn't say how many rounds he fired before the jam.

I read 4 men died covering their g/f's after throwing them to the ground. Two were military or ex-service members. I've never taken fire but I would hope to have the wits to do the same if that's the best choice to make. Never having taken fire, I don't know if I would stand up and return fire. Probably even less likely if I'm with my family/loved ones. I don't think I would leave them either. Just don't know how to react until it happens. I suspect I would be purely defensive which would suck against rifle but I wouldn't want to be anywhere but between the shooter and my family and I wouldn't want to do anything to draw specific fire to my family's location. I just don't know if I could make any other choice.

It was a posted gun free zone. Law abiding CCW's would leave it in the car.

I read that he looked "SWAT-ish" especially in the dark and that a particularly observant officer noticed something about his gear that caught his eye. They didn't say what it was which is good but kudo's to that officer if that's how the arrest was made. His choice of gear (other than the 100 rnd drum) was very LEOish and I'm wondering if that was his plan for escape. M4/AR-15, Glock .40cal, Remington 870, black ballistic helmet, other ballistic gear. Considering the massive response and confusion, the arresting LEO needs some recognition for spotting the "out of the ordinary" when everything was "out of the ordinary" if that's how it went down. One picture of the shooters car had the rear side window busted/shot out. Not sure how or when that happened.

The AR jammed but they didn't say how many rounds he fired before the jam.

I read 4 men died covering their g/f's after throwing them to the ground. Two were military or ex-service members. I've never taken fire but I would hope to have the wits to do the same if that's the best choice to make. Never having taken fire, I don't know if I would stand up and return fire. Probably even less likely if I'm with my family/loved ones. I don't think I would leave them either. Just don't know how to react until it happens. I suspect I would be purely defensive which would suck against rifle but I wouldn't want to be anywhere but between the shooter and my family and I wouldn't want to do anything to draw specific fire to my family's location. I just don't know if I could make any other choice.

frankly, I shoot competition with glock 17 all the time, I'm pretty good with that, I'm also a quick shot with my .38 model 10. In WA the law is I can't carry though cuz I'm 19. In Montana I am allowed to and do carry my .38 on me. While I'm a good shot, I frankly don't know yet whether I would be able to accurately fire at an assailant in a dynamic situation like that. Being very Gun safety oriented If I wasn't in complete panic mode (a very big if) I would probably not fire if I didn't have a clear view on the assailant and a clear line of fire, in addition to a clear view of my iron sights in a dark room. Add tear gas and it's even worse. If I was close enough to the tacti freak I think using my 3 inch locking blade gerber would be a better bet (unless he's wearing rifle plates a bullet vest doesn't offer much protection against edged weapons. Or if I could use my SureFire digita ULTRA in a dark room to disorient him with 250 lumens directed straight at his face then tackle or shank him with the gerber that might be slightly safer to the general public then throwing lead everywhere but I agree that would be a really crappy place to be. Too many variables. I just think an armed person stands a much better chance then unarmed in that scenario

I have no lack of confidence in my comfort and skill with firearms, just my ability to keep my composure while under heavy fire, and really I don't know if anyone is truly ready for a life or death scenario until they've been in one