Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

At first, it didn't seem like it would be in a issue. In fact this first pic kinda works for me... Go Navy. It's practically a recruiting poster. :thumbsup:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/27/article-2107338-11F342E0000005DC-16_468x286.jpg

But then, it devolves into disappointment. They ruined it. They just couldn't let the Navy get all the attention. I don't want to know who plays the Globe and who plays the Anchor. Not a recruiting poster. :nonod: :smilielol5:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/27/article-2107338-11F31549000005DC-466_468x545.jpg

(P.S. I'm thinking this was staged joke but article says real. I guess boot blousing helps with the spurs?)

I guess he took rifle day a little too literally.
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: "Tonight, you pukes will sleep with your rifles. You will give your rifle a girl's name because this is the only pu*** you people are going to get. Your days of finger-banging ol' Mary-Jane Rottencrotch through her pretty pink panties are over! You're married to this piece. This weapon of iron and wood. And you will be faithful. Port, hut!"


Gay marines follow in wake of lesbian home-coming kiss | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107338/Gay-marines-follow-wake-lesbian-home-coming-kiss.html)

“You don’t have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight.”

-Barry Goldwater-

I'm for gays openly serving in the military, but I'll admit there's a pretty big difference in the two photos for me... if only he wasn't jumping into the arms of the other guy, I think it wouldn't have been so... uh... something.

I'm for gays openly serving in the military, but I'll admit there's a pretty big difference in the two photos for me... if only he wasn't jumping into the arms of the other guy, I think it wouldn't have been so... uh... something.

Ooh Rah?

That Marine served three combat tours. I could care less who he plays hide the weenie with.

That Marine served three combat tours. I could care less who he plays hide the weenie with.

Rep sent for outstanding point and classic Norm phrasing.

Would you want to be his room mate ?

I'm for gays openly serving in the military, but I'll admit there's a pretty big difference in the two photos for me... if only he wasn't jumping into the arms of the other guy, I think it wouldn't have been so... uh... something.

Haha, I think that's what most people are complaining about. I'm all for people of all sexual orientations serving, but it's a bit over the top for pretty much anyone.

Would you want to be his room mate ?


Wouldn't bother me, but then I'm ugly.

Would you want to be his room mate ?

Should I be afraid he's going to attack me in the middle of the night? I've been around a number of gay men and never felt the least bit threatened...

Should I be afraid he's going to attack me in the middle of the night? I've been around a number of gay men and never felt the least bit threatened...

As long as their normal, no problem.

But what if they're the stalker type? It's one thing when the crazy chick is calling you hundreds of times and doesn't take "Not interested" seriously. It's quite another thing when a 3 combat tour Marine takes a fancy to you.

I bet the "pucker factor" (so to speak) goes way up when this "badge bunny" you met a traffic stop is showing up at the station "just to see you." :lol: :db:

(Actually I've never heard of a gay man stalking a straight man but I'd figure I'd throw that out there. lol).

I think the real problem is going to be with how to deal with relationships that start between consenting adults in combat units. I'm not sure how comfortable people will be when the person they are relying on is given an order that puts their significant other in harms way.

In Norm's parlance, when two of the three men in a three-man fire team are playing hide the weenie and it comes time decide on who gets thrown on the grenade....

True, crazies aren't restricted to straight people, but I think too many people, men particularly suffer from homophobia and think every gay man is going to try to jump their bones.

And the relationship thing can be a factor, but now that women are deployed to combat zones, there's even more a problem because most people are straight. And it's only going to be a matter of time until women are put in combat units. If we hire women to be cops, I can't see the argument that they aren't capable of being in a combat infantry unit. The odds are a hell of a lot higher than a man and woman in a unit will form a relationship than there is two men will even after gays are allowed.

Also, having been there, I can assure that when grenades are falling, nobody is interested in hiding the weenie anywhere. You're just trying to protect your own.

There must be a reason that men and woman aren't assigned to the same barracks/ room in the military. I cant imagine being in the same barracks room with someone who is homosexual simply because they might ( or could easily) be attracted to me.

Do you want your daughter involuntarly assigned a male room mate whether at college and or the military ? Why not if he says he is " not interested " in her ?

I dont hate gay people , I just dont want to have to live with one. And in my time in the military , they weren't big rooms for two people.

There must be a reason that men and woman aren't assigned to the same barracks/ room in the military. I cant imagine being in the same barracks room with someone who is homosexual simply because they might ( or could easily) be attracted to me.


Well, when men and women (or anybody for that matter) get into relationships it's because they are both interested in each other. Otherwise, it's not a relationship. Since I have no interest in being in a romantic relationship with a man, I don't care if he's interested in me or not.

Same with women, I've had women interested in me that I couldn't care less about. Unless they were crazy, they got the message and moved on. Gay people are no different.

Also, having been there, I can assure that when grenades are falling, nobody is interested in hiding the weenie anywhere. You're just trying to protect your own.

I wasn't thinking of just hiding the weenie, more like if there are relationships that exist and form, they will interfere with good order and discipline.

Being on a 3-man team where you are with 2 of your best friends is a lot different than being on a 3-man team with your wife and best friend. Even if it's not, there is going to be a "three's a crowd" factor that simply doesn't exist now. Also, even if you could treat the third person the same as your wife, that third person may never trust that you do. For that reason, I don't see women in combat infantry units. Israel did an experiment that showed men would instinctively fight for the women in their unit to the detriment of their unit and mission. That's a pretty hard thing to overcome. For me, being gay in the military isn't the issue, it's more of an issue to control the consensual relationships that will form in combat units. It doesn't matter whether those relationships are straight or gay, but if combat units are gender separated it's not an issue for straight soldiers. I doubt the military would allow these type of relationships, straight or gay, in the same unit but now it becomes harder to detect.

True, crazies aren't restricted to straight people, but I think too many people, men particularly suffer from homophobia and think every gay man is going to try to jump their bones.

And the relationship thing can be a factor, but now that women are deployed to combat zones, there's even more a problem because most people are straight. And it's only going to be a matter of time until women are put in combat units. If we hire women to be cops, I can't see the argument that they aren't capable of being in a combat infantry unit. The odds are a hell of a lot higher than a man and woman in a unit will form a relationship than there is two men will even after gays are allowed.

Also, having been there, I can assure that when grenades are falling, nobody is interested in hiding the weenie anywhere. You're just trying to protect your own.


You probably had the same issue at your dept. but around here, the male police officers flock around any half decent looking female police officer like vultures. At any given civil service test the female cops seem to know about 85% of the males taking the test yet the same does not hold true with males. Males also seem to want to "befriend" the female cops when meeting them for the first time at calls and such. I'm a people watcher I suppose :).

Based on that observation males and females in the same rooms/barracks would be bad because I would assume female accessibility is pretty limited in the military. It's not limited for male cops yet they are pathetic really to be blunt. Human nature though I guess.

I didn't see as much protectiveness of women by the time I left as I did when they first started. Back then, it was awful. Every cop wanted to protect women when they were in training and as a result, the first few batches we put on the street were horrible. They simply hadn't been trained effectively. From what I could see by the mid 80 was they were expected to pull their own weight and did so at the same rate as males. We don't have many gay guys, but we have a lot of lesbians on the department. They don't appear to have any locker room issues that some people seem to fear. There have been some lesbian relationships and breakups, but there have been more among men - women.

When I was in the military, WAC's were few and far between. Most were typists or did other jobs far from any action, the exception being some nurses. Now, although women may not be directly in front line assignments, they are integrated much more in the military. My daughter was a SeaBee and had the same combat training as males. I have a picture of her shooting a 50 caliber machine gun.

The military does their best to discourage relationships within units, but it's can be just as difficult with opposite sex and same sex. My daughter married a kid in her unit and they kept it from the Navy until he was discharged, otherwise they would have been separated.

Gays are a pretty small minority, no matter what they say. Many point to the Kinsey report that estimates 10%, but they don't account for the fact the many of the people he studied were people in prisons who admitted to having homosexual encounters. I doubt most effeminate gay men are going to be interested in joining the military anyway.

I appreciate many (not all) of the arguments regarding unit cohesion, order, etc. Many of these arguments have been made previously before other sorts of integrations; the world didn't end. They do not hold enough water with me to warrant the silly 'don't ask don't tell' policy and I find the idea of banning homosexuals wrong-headed.

I can see how there will be some problems. Other modern western militaries have dealt with these problems and continued to function effectively and professionally, including in combat. I refuse to accept that the US military cannot measure up.

I used to have more or less the same stereotypical ideas about gay men as a lot of people until I was in vice in 1977. My Sgt got pissed at me and made me the liaison officer to the gay community.:ack2:

I was sent to meet the head of the primary gay men's organization here and was all set to see some prissy little guy. The man looked like a football linebacker and had no effeminate mannerisms at all. I talked to him for about an hour and he destroyed just about all my preconceived notions of what gay men were like. I can tell you that I would fight at that guy's side any day!

My last three years, I worked hate crimes and made some arrests in several high profile cases of gay bashing. Just after I retired, I got a call from the chief's office telling me that some representatives of some gay organization wanted to give me a plaque for my work and wanted to do it at the gay pride parade. I thought, what the hell and said I would be there.

What was funny was my former captain was there, no doubt he was ordered. Now he's former Army Special Forces officer, bad @ss muscle head, etc.. He and I are standing there with my wife when this 5-4, 120 lb gay guy (who made you want to look for a fire extinquisher) came up and started talking to me. The look on the captain's face was hilarious, he looked scared to death of this little gay man and kept moving closer and closer to my wife as if she would protect him. Even she (who is usually clueless) caught it and laughed about it later.

Now there are some gays and lesbians who are more or less cartoon characters and I find them tiresome. But I found that most are just people trying to get through life the best they can just like everyone else.

Now there are some gays and lesbians who are more or less cartoon characters and I find them tiresome. But I found that most are just people trying to get through life the best they can just like everyone else.


Troof!

I have shared an apartment with gay men and said that I would kill them if they came near me and they left me alone.

I was sent to meet the head of the primary gay men's organization here and was all set to see some prissy little guy. The man looked like a football linebacker and had no effeminate mannerisms at all. I talked to him for about an hour and he destroyed just about all my preconceived notions of what gay men were like. I can tell you that I would fight at that guy's side any day!

I guess his man crush strategy worked :).



My last three years, I worked hate crimes and made some arrests in several high profile cases of gay bashing. Just after I retired, I got a call from the chief's office telling me that some representatives of some gay organization wanted to give me a plaque for my work and wanted to do it at the gay pride parade. I thought, what the hell and said I would be there.


Did the representative give you two snaps up in Z formation? :smilielol5:

I guess his man crush strategy worked :).



Did the representative give you two snaps up in Z formation? :smilielol5:

Nope, I suppose that they could tell by looking at me that I wasn't their type. That seems to be a concern of some though, I guess. And oddly enough, they seemed to figure that out w/o me announcing that I was straight nor did I have to make threats. Go figure.....

I have shared an apartment with gay men and said that I would kill them if they came near me and they left me alone.

Men hear that from straight women too.....

Amazing that so many straight men are so afraid that every gay guy wants to have sex with them..... It's like a straight guy trying to put the make on a woman he knows is a lesbian. Why bother?

Portland has a pretty big gay population and I've been around a lot of gay men doing my job. I can honestly say that I have never, ever had a gay man make a pass at me. Women, yes (probably for all the wrong reasons), but never a man. I guess I don't have to worry about looking like the type....:lol:

It's like a straight guy trying to put the make on a woman he knows is a lesbian. Why bother?


There's always that chance you can convert them...

Portland has a pretty big gay population and I've been around a lot of gay men doing my job. I can honestly say that I have never, ever had a gay man make a pass at me. Women, yes (probably for all the wrong reasons), but never a man. I guess I don't have to worry about looking like the type....:lol:

You probably wouldn't recognize it. Maybe it's just me but I find myself very in tune with women being attracted and recognize passes/flirts etc. I am not looking for that with guys so even if they didn' (unless it was overt crotch grab or something), so anything subtle I'd miss as being a pass.

Many, many years ago in high school I had a friend that was in the closet. I didn't know it at the time. Learned years later he was gay and had crush. In hindsight, it explained some of his behavior but at the time it never occurred to me. I don't think he ever made a pass at me (certainly not overt) but I would have been oblivious to anything subtle. Now if he had been a girl, I don't think I would have been so out of tune.

You probably wouldn't recognize it. Maybe it's just me but I find myself very in tune with women being attracted and recognize passes/flirts etc. I am not looking for that with guys so even if they didn' (unless it was overt crotch grab or something), so anything subtle I'd miss as being a pass.


And that's fine. If I don't pick up on it, I don't react, nothing happens and no harm done. I just see no need to panic at the thought of it.

Even if some guy did (sans touching), unless he was some sort of maniac, I have little doubt that I could just tell him I'm straight and that would be it. Having to threaten them with death is sure over the top. I've known of a lot of cases of women stalking men and vice versa, but I can't say I've ever seen where a gay man stalked a straight guy. But boy, some people seem to live in fear of that or something....

And you're a lot more apt to be grabbed by the crotch or something by a woman than a gay man. A crazy woman will probably think she can get away with it, a gay man is going to expect a negative, if not violent reaction from a straight male. In fact, I've seen a lot of cases where women did grab men like that, but I don't recall ever seeing a police report where where a gay guy did it. But again, some guys seem to think that every gay male wants to molest them.

As I said, I worked with the gay community here a lot and had quite a number of interactions with them and never felt the least bit threatened by any one of them. I sure never felt the need to announce that I was straight and they better not touch me. I just dealt with them as people like I would anyone else. There's just a lot of ignorance, bigotry and just plain homophobia that's based on irrational fears.

There's always that chance you can convert them...

Actually, I did that once. I'll tell you about it when you're older....:thumbsup:

Actually, I did that once. I'll tell you about it when you're older....:thumbsup:

Hey now, don't corrupt poor Greg with your filthy tales...you'll ruin his innocence. :nono:

Don't care. I don't hold that high opinion of myself that I think every man (or woman) I meet wants to hit on me, and if they do, more power to them. Not going to affect me one bit. I'm happily married and couldn't care if someone was into me or not, male or female.

Hey now, don't corrupt poor Greg with your filthy tales...you'll ruin his innocence. :nono:

Uh, you may have already done that.....:db:

I have zero issue with it in terms of professional or personal views. I served in the Navy and saw lots of gay men and women in the early 90's who despite the ban on it were pretty open. There a couple "out" officers that I work with now who are accepted, counted on, and respected as a peer and person. When I first began working with the San Diego Sheriff's Office my assigned zone was Hillcrest, which is the gay community of San Diego, that helped evaporate my last bit of homophobia after I got to meet and work amongst the residents there.

It was appear that lot's of people here are afraid of the unknown.

It isn't homophobic to disagree with or not to wish to live with someone who has a sexual orientation that is significantly different / weird and even disgusting compared to my heterosexual status.

I do NOT hate gay people , I would work with one ( and may unknowingly have done so) and have certainly handled calls with them as perps and victims and they were treated properly by me.

It was appear that lot's of people here are afraid of the unknown.

Enlighten me as to what lots of people here don't already know.

It isn't homophobic to disagree with or not to wish to live with someone who has a sexual orientation that is significantly different / weird and even disgusting compared to my heterosexual status.



Do you know what that means !!??!

"American Beauty" should scare the bejeezus out of you :) lol.

Actually, I did that once. I'll tell you about it when you're older....:thumbsup:


Hey now, don't corrupt poor Greg with your filthy tales...you'll ruin his innocence. :nono:

If I'm reading this correctly, Pathos is now straight and Greg still doesn't know why but apparently owes RDS a favor. .

If I'm reading this correctly, Pathos is now straight and Greg still doesn't know why but apparently owes RDS a favor. .

So you are implying Pathos was once gay?

I have had the same thing happen to me and told them the same thing and that was the last of it.

I've worked with a couple of people who apparently thought it was contagious or something. Having a gay man in the locker room freaked them out.

Everyone was relieved when after we hired a few gay guys, not a single one of those concerned about it turned gay from being around them. I think they were also surprised to find the gay men had no interest in them whatsoever. Some pretty scary times for a few people for a while, I guess.....

What must have really gave them some sleepless nights was that after we hired a couple of openly gay men, several others who had been lockering and sometimes working in the same car as those fearful came out of the closet.... They'd been working, drinking and hanging out with gay guys and didn't know it..... Pretty traumatic, I suppose...

It isn't homophobic to disagree with or not to wish to live with someone who has a sexual orientation that is significantly different / weird and even disgusting compared to my heterosexual status.



ho·mo·pho·bi·a
noun /ˌhōməˈfōbēə/ 

An extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ix=heb&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#hl=en&q=homophobia&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=ogZST6aRDKqOigKDmsi0Bg&ved=0CCgQkQ4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=2662c7bf2252b838&biw=1366&bih=643&ix=heb&ion=1

Just hating homosexuals isn't the only definition of the word. I'm not trying to rag on you, but it is what it is. You posted some real concern about being attractive to a gay. Frankly, I can't see the difference in being hit on by a gay guy and some ugly, obnoxious woman. Sexual orientation has little to do with it.

I've always believed what was happened in the bedroom between two consenting adults was no one else's business, short of murder. Particularly as long as I have a choice as to whether or not I want to participate. I just can't get that concerned about two men having sex together as long as they leave me out of it. And so far, they have and I've been around a number of gay men.

Still, I believe my chastity would be as safe sleeping in the same room as an ugly woman as a gay guy. Neither pose a threat to me. Now I wouldn't want to be in the same room as two men having sex, but I wouldn't want to be in the same room with a man having sex with some women I've met either.

If I thought about very elderly people having sex, and doing so in close proximity, I'd probably end up being afraid of them.

If I thought about very elderly people having sex, and doing so in close proximity, I'd probably end up being afraid of them.

Now THAT hurt.....:toetap05::yesnod:

If I thought about very elderly people having sex, and doing so in close proximity, I'd probably end up being afraid of them.

Necrophiliaphobic?

I'm just going write one thing and I'll shut up about it.

We have a disproportional number of lesbians among the women cops here than is in the general population. I haven't seen the hangups among the straight women dressing, showering or whatever around the lesbians nearly to the level that a lot of men seem to have about gays. Some of the straight women have rolled their eyes at some of the really "butch" looking and acting lesbians, but I've never heard complaining about having to be in the same locker room with them. It seems that men are the primary ones threatened by homosexuality.

On a lighter note, we had this "woman" get a sex change operation to a "man". "His" name was Woodcock, seriously. There was an uproar at the precinct when Woodcock was transferred to the men's locker room. Someone put some sort of note on Woodcock's locker and although "he" never saw it, someone told him about it and he tried for a stress disability. Woodcock was give $25K to resign and never come back....

Necrophiliaphobic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFXGwHsD_A

An extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people


Hmm I don't think I like that definition... mostly because a 'phobia' should be a fear (phobos), not 'aversion'.

I'm pretty sure I have an aversion to men having sex, but maybe I can hang my hat on the 'extreme' modifier.

I'm just going write one thing and I'll shut up about it.

We have a disproportional number of lesbians among the women cops here than is in the general population. I haven't seen the hangups among the straight women dressing, showering or whatever around the lesbians nearly to the level that a lot of men seem to have about gays. Some of the straight women have rolled their eyes at some of the really "butch" looking and acting lesbians, but I've never heard complaining about having to be in the same locker room with them. It seems that men are the primary ones threatened by homosexuality.

On a lighter note, we had this "woman" get a sex change operation to a "man". "His" name was Woodcock, seriously. There was an uproar at the precinct when Woodcock was transferred to the men's locker room. Someone put some sort of note on Woodcock's locker and although "he" never saw it, someone told him about it and he tried for a stress disability. Woodcock was give $25K to resign and never come back....

I have no problems with gays. My only problem is the "co-mingling" in locker rooms, bathrooms and sleeping quarters (when it comes to military). It would be deemed inappropriate for me to use the same bathroom, showers and quarters as women, even though I am married and not "shopping around". Would a gay guy in a men's locker room be any different than me in a woman's?

Since is would be prohibitively expensive to have individual facilities, we should just have one for everyone to use. :)

ho·mo·pho·bi·a
noun /ˌhōməˈfōbēə/ 

An extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ix=heb&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#hl=en&q=homophobia&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=ogZST6aRDKqOigKDmsi0Bg&ved=0CCgQkQ4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=2662c7bf2252b838&biw=1366&bih=643&ix=heb&ion=1

Just hating homosexuals isn't the only definition of the word. I'm not trying to rag on you, but it is what it is. You posted some real concern about being attractive to a gay. Frankly, I can't see the difference in being hit on by a gay guy and some ugly, obnoxious woman. Sexual orientation has little to do with it.

I've always believed what was happened in the bedroom between two consenting adults was no one else's business, short of murder. Particularly as long as I have a choice as to whether or not I want to participate. I just can't get that concerned about two men having sex together as long as they leave me out of it. And so far, they have and I've been around a number of gay men.

Still, I believe my chastity would be as safe sleeping in the same room as an ugly woman as a gay guy. Neither pose a threat to me. Now I wouldn't want to be in the same room as two men having sex, but I wouldn't want to be in the same room with a man having sex with some women I've met either.

Why are you picking on the ugly ladies. They need love too.




I'm just going write one thing and I'll shut up about it.

We have a disproportional number of lesbians among the women cops here than is in the general population. I haven't seen the hangups among the straight women dressing, showering or whatever around the lesbians nearly to the level that a lot of men seem to have about gays. Some of the straight women have rolled their eyes at some of the really "butch" looking and acting lesbians, but I've never heard complaining about having to be in the same locker room with them. It seems that men are the primary ones threatened by homosexuality.

I think straight men see gay men as looking at them the same way straight guys look at women and that's why it makes them unnerved. It doesn't seem that straight women look at men the same way but then again I would have no way of knowing that.

I think the male mind perceives the female as more of a sex object because the male mind is naturally wired to "spread the seed." That may be just one school of thought though. Because of this men feel like they are being looked at as a piece of meat by the gay man, which may or may not be true, and ironic as well. Women seem to be more emotionally attracted to males which is why in the locker room setting they aren't as bothered.

OK I'm done playing psychologist now.

Why are you picking on the ugly ladies. They need love too.

So THAT'S why you're dating me!

:D

Hmm I don't think I like that definition... mostly because a 'phobia' should be a fear (phobos), not 'aversion'.

I'm pretty sure I have an aversion to men having sex, but maybe I can hang my hat on the 'extreme' modifier.

With regards to the definition--I also think the term "aversion" is misleading. A phobia is not merely an aversion; to be classified as a phobia, I believe the individual has to experience extreme anxiety/stress when exposed to the object of their phobia. I can guarantee that most people labeled as "homophobic" do not meet the criteria for homophobia.

IMO, disagreeing with homosexuality does not make one a homophobic. Having an "aversion" to being in a situation in which one would inevitably be naked in front of his colleague who is homosexual is not homophobic either. I don't want to be naked in front of other men who are attracted to the opposite sex as much as I don't want to be naked in front of females who are attracted to the same sex. I don't think I'm this extremely attractive person that everyone lusts after--I just recognize that people are sexual beings, and even though society's behavior is predominantly monogamous, people tend to have fantasies that are either polygamous in nature or do not necessarily involve their significant other. Sometimes people act on their impulses, and sometimes they do not. I think that's dependent on a variety of factors.

Not sure if that makes sense...my brain has been functioning at a minimal level lately, so you'll have to excuse me.

So THAT'S why you're dating me!

:D

Nope, they need love but I'm not equipped to give it to them.

ho·mo·pho·bi·a
noun /ˌhōməˈfōbēə/ 

An extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ix=heb&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#hl=en&q=homophobia&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=ogZST6aRDKqOigKDmsi0Bg&ved=0CCgQkQ4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=2662c7bf2252b838&biw=1366&bih=643&ix=heb&ion=1

Just hating homosexuals isn't the only definition of the word. I'm not trying to rag on you, but it is what it is. You posted some real concern about being attractive to a gay. Frankly, I can't see the difference in being hit on by a gay guy and some ugly, obnoxious woman. Sexual orientation has little to do with it.

I've always believed what was happened in the bedroom between two consenting adults was no one else's business, short of murder. Particularly as long as I have a choice as to whether or not I want to participate. I just can't get that concerned about two men having sex together as long as they leave me out of it. And so far, they have and I've been around a number of gay men.

Still, I believe my chastity would be as safe sleeping in the same room as an ugly woman as a gay guy. Neither pose a threat to me. Now I wouldn't want to be in the same room as two men having sex, but I wouldn't want to be in the same room with a man having sex with some women I've met either.

OK.

ir·ra·tion·al   [ih-rash-uh-nl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
without the faculty of reason; deprived of reason.
2.
without or deprived of normal mental clarity or sound judgment.
3.
not in accordance with reason; utterly illogical: irrational arguments.
4.
not endowed with the faculty of reason: irrational animals.

I have 21,688 posts here , if anyone can point out any history or evidence of me being irrational , please do so.

I served 4 years in the USAF active duty and 3 years in the Air national Guard. Honorable Discharge from both.

I was a police officer for over 25 years. I was promoted 3 times and retired as the Det. Sgt in a 52 man PD. The worst punishment I ever got was a letter for crashing a car.

Somehow , I don't think that I fit into the category of being irrational.

·ver·sion   [uh-vur-zhuhn, -shuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
a strong feeling of dislike, opposition, repugnance, or antipathy (usually followed by to ): a strong aversion to snakes and spiders.
2.
a cause or object of dislike; person or thing that causes antipathy: His pet aversion is guests who are always late.

I think I can go along with this one. I see the gay lifestyle as both disgusting and against God's Word ( aka the Bible). yes , I am a Christian and homosexuality goes directly against my beliefs.

I have never strung a gay person to a barbed wire fence and beat them, I don't go trolling neighborhoods to harm them or to even bash them. They are people too. They have just chosen a lifestyle and I wouldn't want to live with someone of the same sex who is attracted to men.

If you had an 18 year old daughter and she went off to college and they assigned her a 21 year old senior male as her room mate , would you be OK with that ? I mean what if he said " I have ZERO interest in her ". Does that make it ok for you ?

Would it be OK if a gay friend invited your young son to a gay event ? Would it be ok if this gay friend encouraged your son to be gay ?

This is not an issue of fear or hate with me ( and many others). It is simply a matter of total belief that the gay lifestyle is wrong and is not what God intended. But man is FREE to choose his / her own destiny. But be careful what you choose , with choices come responsibility for those choices.

I have no problems with gays. My only problem is the "co-mingling" in locker rooms, bathrooms and sleeping quarters (when it comes to military). It would be deemed inappropriate for me to use the same bathroom, showers and quarters as women, even though I am married and not "shopping around". Would a gay guy in a men's locker room be any different than me in a woman's?

Since is would be prohibitively expensive to have individual facilities, we should just have one for everyone to use. :)

Oh great. Now instead of being ridiculed by half the population, you want to expand it to everyone. What's going to happen when I go to bars and after my SEAL Team 6 and Delta force commander stories, I have to explain how agent Orange made me fat but the torture rack while a POW made me hung to overcome it. Do you expect me to hold my bladder the whole time because you are not homophobic enough to need gender specific bathrooms? Do you realize how much we have to drink for them to actually believe all that and blur their vision enough to buy it? There's a huge difference between "It's 10:00pm Let's go girls, I just checked him him out in the fully lit unisex bathroom - he's just stubby and fat" and closing time "Hey girls, this hung SEAL that killed Osama wants us to back to his hot tub for more drinks to try on his special beer goggles."

And with my luck, what to you think goes through the mind of women:
You enter unisex bathroom. It's filled with gay men, All are sporting their full size. Of course except straight lttle you. An attractive woman you've been eyeing all night enters shortly after. She also notices the sporty style of the men. Except you. Does she:
1) realize you are the only straight guy in the whole place and spends the rest of the evening charming you. or
2). figures you just finished first. Gay and premature. Great.

lol. I know where my luck is.

So THAT'S why you're dating me!

:D

Naah, Greg just needed a lot of practice before he got to you. Pretty ones don't put up with clods so Greg has been honing up his skillz on the thousands of ugly women and trangendered types in the hope of meeting a beautiful girl like you. He's literally charmed, seduced and dumped thousands of parapalegics, burn victims and West Virginians just to be the A lister he is today. He dated stephen Hawking for months before they programmed "I'm a man leave me alone," Heck, he gave up pants solely because he got tired of dressing his parapalegic girlfriends "If I can go without pants with perfectly good legs,you certainly don't need thrm."

Well, it's all academic anyway. Gays are going to be allowed to serve openly in the military, just like in a lot of other countries..... Since you don't hear much about straight soldiers and sailors being gang raped by gays there, I suppose Americans will have to suck it up. (No pun intended)

I have no problems with gays. My only problem is the "co-mingling" in locker rooms, bathrooms and sleeping quarters (when it comes to military). It would be deemed inappropriate for me to use the same bathroom, showers and quarters as women, even though I am married and not "shopping around". Would a gay guy in a men's locker room be any different than me in a woman's?

Since is would be prohibitively expensive to have individual facilities, we should just have one for everyone to use. :)

Well, since you were in the Army and I suspect have used public gyms, the odds are pretty steep that you're already done and that and didn't know it.:nono: The military has always had gays in it.

We had a cop who started as dispatcher, became sworn in the mid 70's and rose to the rank of captain in the early 90's. At that point, he came out of the closet and shocked a lot of people. Other than he wasn't married, the majority of us had no clue. He lockered, showered and hung out with a lot straight guys that had the same attitudes as several here. I wondered what they thought when they found out!?!

You don't get it, RDS. Your argument is silly. I presume you have seen women naked without the compulsion to rape them, am I right? So put that one aside, it's getting old. I have several friends that are gay (my wife works at Sephora and I think the only men they hire are gay men), but I'm not sharing the locker room with them. I would treat them as I would a female friend: I'm not going to change clothes in front of them, etc. I can't speak for you, but I can assure you that were I to see them or a woman naked, I don't have to worry about any desires to go rape people.

Now, let me break it down as simply as I can for you:
1) Would it be appropriate for me (a male) to use a women's bathroom or share women's locker rooms, showers or quarters? I think a simple yes or know would answer it.

2) How is #1 any different from me sharing such facilities with gay men?

Bottom line is, as I just said, you've no doubt done all that when you were in the Army, but didn't know it. Secondly, the military is going to allow gays to serve openly now.

And women have been sharing locker rooms with lesbians at my department for 40 years and haven't had a problem. I guess now we have gay men sharing male locker rooms too.

I've never addressed whether or not it's appropriate, your male/female argument has nothing to do with anything I've posted. I'm just saying that personally, I'm not intimidated by it. All I've stated is that it's always been there and will now apparently continue, but more openly in the military.

I'm not intimidated, sharing a women's locker room, but it is not permitted.

I am pretty confident that you are with me when I say that I hate the mentality of letting something be, just because that's the way it has been. That is exactly what you are saying about the military with gays (whom we did not know about) already sharing locker rooms/quarters for years.

Well, if we are going to address openly having gays in the military then we MUST address the appropriateness of them sharing facilities. You cannot placate one audience at the expense of another. That would be no different than going back to telling the gays to keep their lifestyles a secret to pacify the heterosexuals. You cannot address one without the other.

Don't have any problem with that.

Well, if we are going to address openly having gays in the military then we MUST address the appropriateness of them sharing facilities.

While I don't disagree that it would be a good idea, I bet they don't.

For the sake of argument, you will probably have more inappropriate sexual behavior by putting gays together than you would if you integrate them with straights. Putting two gays together in the same room is more or less like putting a man and woman together if you really think about it. A straight man and a gay man aren't going to engage in sexual behavior and form a relationship, but two gay men are much more apt. So you would have the same problem as if you put a man and woman together, wouldn't you think?

It's funny how straight people see gays as horny 24/7. Why do you thin someone is going to risk their career because of sex just because they are gay?

It's funny how straight people see gays as horny 24/7. Why do you thin someone is going to risk their career because of sex just because they are gay?

Just exactly who is implying that here?

Just exactly who is implying that here?

Several people have been concerned that gays may find them sexually attractive. The sexual component seems to be the gist of concern by some.

It's a legitimate point he's making.

Several people have been concerned that gays may find them sexually attractive. The sexual component seems to be the gist of concern by some.

It's a legitimate point he's making.

It's not a legitimate point. It's a straw man. He's misrepresenting the opposing view. Who exactly is saying here that gay men are horny 24/7 and will rape any man they see naked in the locker room?

ETA: Assuming I interpreted that second half right (Quote: "Why do you thin someone is going to risk their career because of sex just because they are gay?")

It's not a legitimate point. It's a straw man. He's misrepresenting the opposing view. Who exactly is saying here that gay men are horny 24/7 and will rape any man they see naked in the locker room?

ETA: Assuming I interpreted that second half right (Quote: "Why do you thin someone is going to risk their career because of sex just because they are gay?")

Why would someone care about being sexually attractive to a gay man if he wasn't concerned
about being hit on?

You would think from their posts that would be something they would expect if they roomed with one. Otherwise, why would they care if the man sleeping across the room is gay?

To add, that's why personally, I couldn't care less about sharing facilities with a gay guy. I'm not gay, have no interest whatsoever in sex with a man. I doubt I would be hit on, but if I was, I guess I would be a real heartbreaker......

I never hit on every woman I found sexually attractive even when I wasn't married, only a few that I thought I might have a chance with, not to mention if it was appropriate. That's why I never ever dated anyone I worked around. I doubt gay men are much different. Or some men perhaps think they're so irresistible to gays!:lol:

While I don't disagree that it would be a good idea, I bet they don't.

For the sake of argument, you will probably have more inappropriate sexual behavior by putting gays together than you would if you integrate them with straights. Putting two gays together in the same room is more or less like putting a man and woman together if you really think about it. A straight man and a gay man aren't going to engage in sexual behavior and form a relationship, but two gay men are much more apt. So you would have the same problem as if you put a man and woman together, wouldn't you think?
I agree with everything you are saying here. Hence the difficulty and my lack of support for open homosexuals serving. It has nothing to do with me worrying about being raped or thinking they are less capable. It's a logistics nightmare in a world where logistics mean life or death. It adds distraction to an environment where the people need to be as focused as possible.


...Why do you thin someone is going to risk their career because of sex just because they are gay?
Please... heterosexuals risk their careers with inappropriate behavior all the time. It's not that they are MORE likely then heteros... it's just heterosexuals have less exposure to that situation, having segregated facilities.

Several people have been concerned that gays may find them sexually attractive. The sexual component seems to be the gist of concern by some.

It's a legitimate point he's making.

Would you be concerned if your 18 yr old freshman daughter was roomed with a 21 yr old guy who says that he isn't interested in her ? I mean if there is no attraction than she ( and you ) should be fine with it. I know you would not be ok with this scenario.

It isn't that I KNOW that a gay man who was going to have any sexual interest in me , it's that I dont know. I wouldn't want to LIVE with a male who has ANY possible reason to be sexually attracted to me. You can call it anything you want and you can shrug it off as " not a big deal" but to someone who finds the male to male attractiveness as repugnant , I would much rather prefer to live with a non-homosexual.

I do not shake in fear and I don't cruise military or gay forums to pick a fight but I do have a beliefs and principles that I hold very dear and to do otherwise is to compromise them.

I suspect that the chances of being placed in that situation are nil ( been happily married for almost 27 yrs) but I look back to my time in the military in the late 70's and wonder what it would be like today.

I suspect that most would NOT want to live with another gay person if they didn't have to. And I can imagine the problems that would erupt if the straight guy felt that his gay roomie was watching him. Can you ?

When you're fat and ugly like I am you don't have to worry about being hit on by either sex...

When you're fat and ugly like I am you don't have to worry about being hit on by either sex...

:toetap05: You know what else you don't have to worry about now?

It's funny how straight people see gays as horny 24/7. Why do you thin someone is going to risk their career because of sex just because they are gay?

It's funny how you just show up and, without an introduction, start making comments in a bunch of threads. Do you go to restaurants and butt into other people's conversations on a regular basis?

Btw, people risk their careers because of sex whether they are gay or straight...

When you're happily committed like I am, it doesn't matter if you're hit on by either sex...

Fixed it for ya, now go out and buy some chocolate or something! :eek6:

I don't want to get into the discussion but do I agree with Switch - separate living arrangements for separate classes. If males and females are segregated, homosexuals should be too.

Fixed it for ya, now go out and buy some chocolate or something! :eek6:

Your help is appreciated but she won't buy it.

Fixed it for ya, now go out and buy some chocolate or something! :eek6:


Your help is appreciated but she won't buy it.

Correct.

It's funny how straight people see gays as horny 24/7. Why do you thin someone is going to risk their career because of sex just because they are gay?

Men are horny 24/7 and there are many cases of straight men tossing their career over it. I don't see why gay men would be different.

Greg told me that it was much easier for men to get sex at a gay bar than it was for men to get sex at a straight bar.

Change "gay" with "unattractive or revolting female or male". Same situation yet the outcome is going to be vastly different for some because they are, like I said before, afraid of the unknown. I am not attacking anyone nor do I wish for that to be how I am coming across. I just think that some people lack the appropriate exposure and that could be the problem. Some people also have serious issues with male/female of two different races being together. This is almost exactly the same thing. This really is something that boils down to personal values/morals/experiences. However it's unreasonable to be dissatisfied with a decision that perhaps may be for the better in the long run simply because of learned behavior/beliefs.

I know many people that are gay, and have yet to be "hit on" by one of them. Even if they didn't know that I was straight and did make a comment, I simply would just explain that I don't swing that way or not interested. Same goes for unattractive females. It all really boils down to self control. Just because one person is unable to control their emotions doesn't mean the entire group is. So with that being said, sure, it's totally possible that two gay individuals become attracted to one other and get serious, but it doesn't mean they all will. (which i explain more below)

As far as the romance thing, I understand the point, but at the same time it's really going to mess with the moral of soldiers. Creating a different "class" creates a huge problem. Kind of like racism, (blacks, whites) and the only way you could do that is to trust your soldiers enough (or create a policy) to have them tell you if they are in a relationship and move them to a different unit. Same as any Heterosexual relationship. It would also create a US v. them mentality which is not good when you are in any co-operating organization. Can you see it? "Oh no, the homos are going to be our backup." Yeah....

I really believe that nobody is really going to read what I have written and change their mind, yet I hope it at least brings another point of view into play. I try to be really open minded as much as possible, and I think it's a really good thing to remain that way.

Change "gay" with "unattractive or revolting female or male".
But we aren't talking about unattractive etc.
Same situationno it isn't yet the outcome is going to be vastly different for some because they are, like I said before, afraid of the unknown. I am not attacking anyone nor do I wish for that to be how I am coming across. I just think that some people lack the appropriate exposure so I need to be around more gay people ? and that could be the problem. Some people also have serious issues with male/female of two different races being together.possibly but that has not been mentioned by anyone but you so far This is almost exactly the same thing. This really is something that boils down to personal values/morals/experiences.I agree !! However it's unreasonablefor you ? OK to be dissatisfied with a decision that perhaps maymay ? be for the better in the long run simply because of learned behavior/beliefs.So I should embrace the idea that being gay is 100% OK and that I should support them , live with them and disregard my morals and beliefs ?

I know many people that are gay, and have yet to be "hit on" by one of them.good for you Even if they didn't know that I was straight and did make a comment, I simply would just explain that I don't swing that way or not interested. Same goes for unattractive femalesNot the current topic. It all really boils down to self control.Really ? Just because one person is unable to control their emotions doesn't mean the entire group is.There are certain levels of " controlling emotions So with that being said, sure, it's totally possible that two gay individuals become attracted to one other and get serious, but it doesn't mean they all will. (which i explain more below) agree

As far as the romance thing, I understand the point, but at the same time it's really going to mess with the morale of soldiers. Creating a different "class" creates a huge problem. Kind of like racism, (blacks, whites) and the only way you could do that is to trust your soldiers enough (or create a policy) to have them tell you if they are in a relationship and move them to a different unit. Same as any Heterosexual relationship. It would also create a US v. them mentality which is not good when you are in any co-operating organization. Can you see it? "Oh no, the homos are going to be our backup." Yeah....

I really believe that nobody is really going to read what I have written and change their mind, yet I hope it at least brings another point of view into play. I try to be really open minded as much as possible, and I think it's a really good thing to remain that way.

I can go along with being open minded but not at the expense of my morals , principles or beliefs. That trumps the " open mindedness " thing any day of the week.

If you asked me to become open minded about being a vegetarian , I could consider it. I don't think I would do it it but I have no moral , principle or belief that would prevent me from doing it.

If you asked me to become open minded about being a vegetarian , I could consider it. I don't think I would do it it but I have no moral , principle or belief that would prevent me from doing it.

I don't think anyone is asking you to be open minded about becoming a vegetarian OR gay. Just to let vegetarians eat in the mess hall. Wait, I think I'm confusing metaphors.

Yes, I can see how there will be some uncomfortableness about the situation; I just don't think it warrants the banning of gays from the military. I also don't see a further segregation of facilities. If some guy is talking to me in the locker room with his dong hanging out, I'm gonna tell him to go put a damn towel on- regardless of whether he's gay. Hell, I've seen straight guys in the locker room acting in a way that makes me wonder...

Anyway, like I said, other countries have dealt with this- why can't we? I suspect it'll get easier as the older guys retire. Successive generations have less of a problem with gays in surveys, etc, and I bet the same will apply.

Men are horny 24/7 and there are many cases of straight men tossing their career over it. I don't see why gay men would be different.


Nor are all gay men attracted to every man they meet. Just like straight men aren't attracted to every woman they run into.

Cases of gay men raping straight men are a lot rarer than straight men raping women. ( I can't recall ever see one cross my desk when I was in sex crimes for seven years) But some people seem to live in fear of that.

Just to add, as far it being a moral issue, that's BS. I have a cousin who's queer as a three dollar bill. When I was 6 and he was 4, he would rather play with dolls and do girl things. I had no idea what homosexual was then, but I knew he was "different". He tried his best to be straight, got married out of high school (which shocked me), but by the time he was 30, he couldn't stand it anymore and came out of the closet. He couldn't not be attracted to men sexually if his life depended on it. And he came out in W. Texas so it didn't make life easy for him.

Men are horny 24/7 and there are many cases of straight men tossing their career over it. I don't see why gay men would be different.

Greg told me that it was much easier for men to get sex at a gay bar than it was for men to get sex at a straight bar.


Nor are all gay men attracted to every man they meet. Just like straight men aren't attracted to every woman they run into.

Cases of gay men raping straight men are a lot rarer than straight men raping women. ( I can't recall ever see one cross my desk when I was in sex crimes for seven years) But some people seem to live in fear of that.


Like I said before, it's not the criminal aspects of rape or even the consensual types of prison activities.

My concern is that with openly gay members serving, there will be male/male sexual relationships in units. Just as there are male/female sexual relationships in units today. If the military has a good method of dealing with it in a combat unit, then I think it will be fine. But if they don't and they have no way to prevent/stop/transfer/etc they will have a morale problem at the minimum and a trust problem as well. I put combat in a different class than even policing because the stakes and the trust are a lot higher. Currently the military relies on DADT to keep those relationships a notch away. Now they have a higher hurdle. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. "God, Country, family" is traditional theme but sometimes country and family are pretty close.

I would personally be against siblings and parent/children serving in the same combat unit for the same reason. Not because a family might lose two members, but I don't want the relationship to interfere with good order and discipline. Same is true for husband/wife, G/B or B/B. It only takes one order or act that looks like "favoritism" to undermine it all. Gay relationships will be known by the platoon long before the brass can do anything about it.

Like I said before, it's not the criminal aspects of rape or even the consensual types of prison activities.

My concern is that with openly gay members serving, there will be male/male sexual relationships in units. Just as there are male/female sexual relationships in units today. If the military has a good method of dealing with it in a combat unit, then I think it will be fine. But if they don't and they have no way to prevent/stop/transfer/etc they will have a morale problem at the minimum and a trust problem as well. I put combat in a different class than even policing because the stakes and the trust are a lot higher. Currently the military relies on DADT to keep those relationships a notch away. Now they have a higher hurdle. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. "God, Country, family" is traditional theme but sometimes country and family are pretty close.

I would personally be against siblings and parent/children serving in the same combat unit for the same reason. Not because a family might lose two members, but I don't want the relationship to interfere with good order and discipline. Same is true for husband/wife, G/B or B/B. It only takes one order or act that looks like "favoritism" to undermine it all. Gay relationships will be known by the platoon long before the brass can do anything about it.

I brought up the rape thing because some seem to think they will constantly be hit on if they have to be around any gay men.

As I said earlier though, that's been a problem ever since they allowed women to work in the same areas as men. On the upside, there aren't nearly as many gay men going to be serving as there are women. Gay men don't make up as big a percentage of the population as even the gay community would like you to believe. There were lots of predictions that didn't come true when women started in police work too. I was there at the beginning of that. In fact, I was in one of the last all male academies.

But in reality, what you or I think about it is meaningless. It's happening.

I can go along with being open minded but not at the expense of my morals , principles or beliefs. That trumps the " open mindedness " thing any day of the week.

If you asked me to become open minded about being a vegetarian , I could consider it. I don't think I would do it it but I have no moral , principle or belief that would prevent me from doing it.

I see most of what I wrote (unsurprisingly) fell upon deaf ears. The comments you made throughout my post were in no way constructive, and failed to disprove anything I said. I made comparisons that were out of the scope of this "discussion" simply to try to make it easier to understand, not to change the subject. I thought it was rather obvious. Some comments even were borderline childish (see "good for you") so consider my attempt over as it has truly failed.

:beatdeadhorse5:

Just wanted to throw this out there regarding the open-mindedness thing:

Two of my very closest friends back in high school were homosexual (one male, one female). The female friend claimed to be heterosexual for a while until one day she announced she was a lesbian. I still accepted her and loved her as a friend; however, she knew that my stance on homosexuality was that it is a sexual sin. She didn't agree with it, but she respected my opinion. Same went for my homosexual male friend.

I don't believe disagreeing with homosexuality or disagreeing with homosexuals in the military due to the compromising living conditions has much to do with the "appropriate exposure." In some cases, yes; but many people tend to have religious/moral reasons behind why they disagree with a particular behavior. As a Christian, I love the person but I hate the sin. (And in case the ad hominem begins, I'm not saying I'm perfect--I KNOW I have my flaws, and I am NO BETTER than anyone else.) I'm not going to stop associating with a person because they have different views from me, but I'm also not going to pretend that I believe their behavior is acceptable. Why? Because, as a Christian, I am concerned about their soul. So many people take offense and accuse Christians of "trying to convert them" or "being intolerant," but few people look at it this way: If I sincerely believe that there was a heaven and a hell, and thought that you were in danger of going to hell...would you be more offended if I tried to warn you or if I just stayed silent? At least, this is the case for me--I can't speak for anyone else here. But I digress...

Insofar as the issue at hand goes, I don't believe this has anything to do with a personal "fear of being raped" or "homophobia" (which by the way is such an overused, misrepresented term that hearing it used incorrectly has now become a major pet peeve of mine) but rather involves the issue of sexual misconduct in general. Yes, there have been concerns expressed about being hit on or checked out by homosexual men. But I think the major issue would be the sexual misconduct. If males and females were to share the same facilities at the same time (e.g., showering together), there may be an increase in consensual and non-consensual sexual misconduct alike. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the same would apply for homosexual men. And don't misquote me here--I'm NOT in ANY WAY saying that this would occur among all or even the majority of homosexual men. Simply that it could potentially evolve into a problem.

I can sympathize with both sides, to be honest. And I fully recognize that my argument is not entirely sound, since I am not as well-versed on the topic as I would like to be. However, I am getting tired of hearing this misrepresentation of everyone who disagrees with homosexuality or gays in the military as homophobes. This excessive labeling is nothing more than a distraction from one's own weak argument. Disagree with the opponent's side if you must; but keep the name calling and pseudo-psychologist diagnoses out of it.

Kudos to any of you who actually took the time to read my senseless essay. I'm going back to silently creeping on the forums. :leaving:

Whoa, that was MUCH longer than I thought! I need to start channeling that energy into my schoolwork...:skep:

Disagreeing that homosexuals should be in the military is one thing. Concerns about fraternization are quite legitimate and have nothing to do with homophobia. Raging against the very idea of homosexuality is something different. There are some real personal issues coming out here.

The definition of homophobia is in dictionaries and quite clear. I have no desire whatsoever to have sex with a man and find the idea of it repulsive too, but it doesn't send me up the wall that others do it. When the aversion is as strong as it is with some posts here that literally rage against homosexuality, it fits the definition quite well. All the rationalization in the world isn't going to change that. *

As far as it being a sin, I consider myself a Christian too, but I don't go along with everything the Old Testament says about sin and what should be done about it. If a real life movie were made based on the Old Testament, it would be rated X for violence. Maybe since homosexuals don't do anything that causes me personal grief, I'll let God handle it. Unfortunately, the fact they exist seems to rile some folks. Jesus taught us about God's grace and I'd rather follow that teaching.

And as I stated earlier, my cousin is gay and I have no doubt he was born that way. It wasn't a learned behavior and I have trouble believing it's a sin the way God created him. We all grew up in a rough and tumble W. Texas environment and he took a lot of heat even as a little kid for his effeminate mannerisms and ways. Had I not grown up around him, I might have different views, but I know he is not gay by choice, I believe he did his best not to be. It's caused him a lot of trouble in his life.

Just wanted to throw this out there regarding the open-mindedness thing:

Two of my very closest friends back in high school were homosexual (one male, one female). The female friend claimed to be heterosexual for a while until one day she announced she was a lesbian. I still accepted her and loved her as a friend;

A lot of great movies and letters to certain magaizine start out this way.



Same went for my homosexual male friend.

Not so much. ;)

I see most of what I wrote (unsurprisingly) fell upon deaf ears. The comments you made throughout my post were in no way constructive, and failed to disprove anything I said. I made comparisons that were out of the scope of this "discussion" simply to try to make it easier to understand, not to change the subject. I thought it was rather obvious. Some comments even were borderline childish (see "good for you") so consider my attempt over as it has truly failed.







:beatdeadhorse5:

I answered as I would have to anyone. Your belief that a statement was " childish" is certainly your opininon. I would of course disagree but I don't have your perspective. You would like people ( like me) to accept if not agree with other peoples lifestlyes that they have chosen. You certainly dont agree with every lifestyle on the face of the earth and I am sure you don't accept all of them either.

I do not have the " deaf ears " that you portray , rather I have rather informed and developed ears with strong ties to moral and religious beliefs. If I made a statement about something and either had no foundation to base it on or dismissed it as unimportant and unworthy of my time ....you might have been able to make your deaf ears statement with some position of clarity.

I don't hate gay people. I just don't agree with their choice of lifestlye and won't do anything to support it. Just like I don't agree with the Democratic Party. I don't hate them but I won't do anything to support them.

We ALL have the freedom of choice and free will do accept or reject whatever we want.

I would agree however that your attempt to convince me of your point of view has failed. :)

Probably a good time to close this thread.
My hope was that the picture of the Marine would poke "marinepilot" to "jump into" the thread as to how that picture really did make the Marines a better branch to serve in than the Navy and not really devolve into a gays in the military thread. Personally, if the two pictures were trailers to a movie, I know which one I would want to see, notwithstanding all the awards "Brokeback Mountain" received ( and now we see it was really a modern remake of "Hamburger Hill").

Chesty Puller never quit. "I can't quit you" was not, however, a direct quote. As far as we know.

You can close it now.

:)

Probably a good time to close this thread.
My hope was that the picture of the Marine would poke "marinepilot" to "jump into" the thread as to how that picture really did make the Marines a better branch to serve in than the Navy and not really devolve into a gays in the military thread. Personally, if the two pictures were trailers to a movie, I know which one I would want to see, notwithstanding all the awards "Brokeback Mountain" received ( and now we see it was really a modern remake of "Hamburger Hill").

Chesty Puller never quit. "I can't quit you" was not, however, a direct quote. As far as we know.

You can close it now.

:)

See what you've started? :nono: :biggrinjester:

Probably a good time to close this thread.
My hope was that the picture of the Marine would poke "marinepilot" to "jump into" the thread as to how that picture really did make the Marines a better branch to serve in than the Navy and not really devolve into a gays in the military thread. Personally, if the two pictures were trailers to a movie, I know which one I would want to see, notwithstanding all the awards "Brokeback Mountain" received ( and now we see it was really a modern remake of "Hamburger Hill").

Chesty Puller never quit. "I can't quit you" was not, however, a direct quote. As far as we know.

You can close it now.

:)

Mike, I see no reason to close this as it has turned into a good, respectable discussion of something that is on the minds of many people. So far nothing has been out of pocket and everyone is treating everyone else with a modicum of respect.

Glad to see you posted something to get my goat tho! Unfortunately for you it backfired as this is the first post I've done in this thread, and I prefer to use my "Right to remain silent" on this subject! :biggrin5:

Glad to see you posted something to get my goat tho! Unfortunately for you it backfired as this is the first post I've done in this thread, and I prefer to use my "Right to remain silent" on this subject! :biggrin5:

Dang. Even quoting Chesty Puller saying "I can't quit you" didn't do it. Marines are tough nuts to crack :).

Marines are tough nuts to crack :).

Damn, Mike, you don't give up easy! :lurk5:

Damn, Mike, you don't give up easy! :lurk5:

LOL. 7 pages after that pic, I had to break out the "Chesty" Puller quotes from Brokeback Mountain just to get him to say the discourse was civil. I'm glad this is internet courage 'cuz I don't think this lasts that long in real life. I'd be feeling a lot like Jesse Ventura. I think I'll save "Chesty" Puller's history with Guadal's Canal for a different time. :smilielol5::biggrinjester::cheers:

BTW, Cincy hasn't jumped in either to support the Navy. But the picture does that all by itself. :)

Too bad about the Margarita stand. Bottom's up. http://planetsmilies.net/eat-drink-smiley-5173.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

I answered as I would have to anyone. Your belief that a statement was " childish" is certainly your opininon. I would of course disagree but I don't have your perspective. You would like people ( like me) to accept if not agree with other peoples lifestlyes that they have chosen. You certainly dont agree with every lifestyle on the face of the earth and I am sure you don't accept all of them either.

I do not have the " deaf ears " that you portray , rather I have rather informed and developed ears with strong ties to moral and religious beliefs. If I made a statement about something and either had no foundation to base it on or dismissed it as unimportant and unworthy of my time ....you might have been able to make your deaf ears statement with some position of clarity.

I don't hate gay people. I just don't agree with their choice of lifestlye and won't do anything to support it. Just like I don't agree with the Democratic Party. I don't hate them but I won't do anything to support them.

We ALL have the freedom of choice and free will do accept or reject whatever we want.

I would agree however that your attempt to convince me of your point of view has failed. :)

Like I said before, why bother arguing with someone who has undoubtedly made up their mind. If facts existed that proved everything I said to be 110% true it's likely that it wouldn't matter anyways.

As for the religion thing, that's an entire spin off argument by itself. The things that it says can be interpreted in so many different ways that it makes it almost impossible to take anything it says literally. With that being said, many people consider themselves devote Christians, but generally they are just as guilty of other "sins" ... perhaps even more than the people they frown upon. So in many cases, it's a poor choice to use religion as reason for disliking something. It wouldn't be fair for someone to say that a couple whom had intercourse before they were married are unable to enter the military now would it? So if people who did have sex before marriage shouldn't entering the military be a problem? I mean what if they ran out and got knocked up while in service? I'm sure a bunch more examples similar to this could be brought up, but it hasn't because of a simple intolerance for something that generally isn't a problem, but a speculation.

Innocent until proven guilty no?

Well I've never served in the military, but I would much rather have a gay soldier that knows what he's doing backing me up over a straight guy that's basically clueless. What people do in the privacy of their own homes doesn't matter to me, if you treat me with respect, then you'll receive it from me.

Well I've never served in the military, but I would much rather have a gay soldier that knows what he's doing backing me up over a straight guy that's basically clueless. What people do in the privacy of their own homes doesn't matter to me, if you treat me with respect, then you'll receive it from me.

Would it be ok if a gay teacher suggested/ taught or otherwise mentioned that the gay lifestyle is ok and should be considered to their students ? ( your kids)

Would it be ok if a gay teacher suggested/ taught or otherwise mentioned that the gay lifestyle is ok and should be considered to their students ? ( your kids)

Good question, but since I'm not a parent I'm not sure how I would handle or feel about this. I could say that I would or wouldn't be okay with it, but at this point it would just be a guess. If one day I do become a parent and one of my kids turns out to be gay then I don't think that would bother me, but someone pressing it onto them could be a different story. Sort of like how I don't want people pushing their religion onto me, but like I said thats just an opinion and hopefully something I won't have to deal with any time in the near future.

Would it be ok if a gay teacher suggested/ taught or otherwise mentioned that the gay lifestyle is ok and should be considered to their students ? ( your kids)

Yes it would. Then the arrest for soliciting a minor would shortly follow. The wife kind of has that mean streak when there's even any kind of hint of a sexual come-on to the kids. He would have a "bad day". :)

But it wouldn't be just gay teachers. If the there's any hint of pedophilia, the guy has no chance. If it's straight teacher coming on to pre-consent teenager, then there a lot of explaining to do. If it's teacher with post-age-of consent and the class is on biology, there's some explaining to do and it all better be in the text book.

The "I'm gay and the book is wrong so you should hang with me if you want to learn the truth" teacher isn't going to last long and I don't care how old the kid is.

And the same goes for drugs. I don't particularly want a teacher comparing alcohol to marijuana and make the currently fashionable claim that MJ is "safer especially if you are driving" argument. Or that the teacher gets a regular supply of medical marijuana.

These are all life lessons that need not be taught by authority figures in school.

That said, I'm sure there were gay teachers that taught high school when I was a kid. I'm sure some were single, divorced, widowed and married too. I'm sure some were victims of DV or perpetrators of it. they were somehow able to teach without their lifestyle being anywhere close to discussable. These personal issues have no place in the classroom. Sexuality and drugs are probably the top two pressures on kids in school and I don't see teachers as the ones that are in a position since they can be making perfectly legal choices that only add to the pressure. Imagine a 23 year old female teacher that becomes involved with a 40 year old man. Both are single and nothing illegal happens. How does she explain to a 15 year-old girl that her relationship with an 18 year old man is "wrong"? there's just no place for the personal anecdote about what is "right and wrong" in school. There should be a professional distance between teachers and students. There are certainly facts that can be taught about sexuality without delving into the personal lives of the teacher.

Would it be ok if a gay teacher suggested/ taught or otherwise mentioned that the gay lifestyle is ok and should be considered to their students ? ( your kids)


I don't see any correlation between a teacher talking about any kind of sexual preference and serving with a gay person in the military. Do you think every gay person is trying to solicit everyone else, straight or not? I worked with a lot of gay people when I was assigned to hate crimes and I can report to you that I was never hit on by a gay man. I was hit on by a lot of women in my career, but never once a man.

As far as teachers, I have a niece that's a lesbian and she's taught grade school for well over 20 years and has received numerous awards. Parents stood in line trying to get their kids assigned to her second grade class because of her reputation. She was selected several years ago to set up and manage the talented and gifted program for lower grade school kids because of her teaching ability. Bear in mind that this is in Texas and it's pretty obvious to people that know much about her that she's a lesbian. Her partner is also a grade school teacher and I seriously doubt that's its ever crossed their minds to discuss their sex life with anyone, especially their students. I think you're confusing homosexuality with pedophilia. Two different things entirely.

And as Mike said, I don't want any teacher promoting any sort of sex life to my kids. But again, none of that has a thing to do with serving in the military.

There will be no intellectualizing on my behalf, for I give you this video where words are not needed. :biggrin5:

Weather Girls - It's Raining Men Video - YouTube (http://youtu.be/bBlbPw7WAqM)