Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

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MikeyD
01-19-12, 09:18 PM
Are cops required to go through cellphones at traffic stops in your area. I heard about this happening in Michigan, but itt seems like this program has reached my area as I saw a cop going through a lady's cellphone after he pulled her over. What kinds of things are the cops looking for when they go through phones?


G35 Mass
01-19-12, 10:17 PM
Required? I guarantee not.

mcsap
01-19-12, 10:26 PM
No.


Norm357
01-19-12, 11:09 PM
Not going through my phone without a warrant.

qpd158
01-19-12, 11:27 PM
If I suspect a person is texting while driving, I may ask for consent to look at the cell phone to check messages. It is not required nor is it permissible in my dept to go through a persons cell phone without either consent or a search warrant.

deputywave
01-19-12, 11:48 PM
I look to try and beat their high score in Angry Birds.

Joeyd6
01-20-12, 12:04 PM
If a cop wants to look at whats on somebody's phone, it can legally happen under two circumstances:
1) person consents to such
2) a search warrant is obtained

Samuel
01-20-12, 01:09 PM
Incident to arrest too... (people vs diaz)

"required to" - nope

Samuel
01-20-12, 01:10 PM
I look to try and beat their high score in Angry Birds.

hahaha can you imagine the complaint(s) if you went and reset high scores/game progress (e.g. deleted all the combinations made/discovered in Alchemy)?

G35 Mass
01-20-12, 04:02 PM
Not going through my phone without a warrant.Is that a challenge?

G35 Mass
01-20-12, 04:04 PM
Incident to arrest too... (people vs diaz)

"required to" - nope
Add exigency.

Believe evidence of a crime is contained on the phone? Don't have a faraday bag? Conduct immediate search to recover evidence that, if delayed, could be remotely deleted by way of a "kill command".

MikeyD
01-20-12, 04:07 PM
Ahh, well it seems like the consensus is no, but I am hearing of this happening more and more in various states. I suspect people don't know they can decline this request. Although, Michigan's program has special software than can pull data from cellphones, sort of like credit card skimmers.

G35 Mass
01-20-12, 04:17 PM
Ahh, well it seems like the consensus is no, but I am hearing of this happening more and more in various states. I suspect people don't know they can decline this request. Although, Michigan's program has special software than can pull data from cellphones, sort of like credit card skimmers.

Post your source.

Samuel
01-20-12, 06:22 PM
btw, just because I Ask, doesn't mean I can't anyway...

MikeG
01-20-12, 11:32 PM
Are cops required to go through cellphones at traffic stops in your area. I heard about this happening in Michigan, but itt seems like this program has reached my area as I saw a cop going through a lady's cellphone after he pulled her over. What kinds of things are the cops looking for when they go through phones?

How hot was she?

Safety Steve
01-20-12, 11:33 PM
I will take your phone from you if you get out of the car with it in your hand! There is no reason a person needs their cell phone the five to ten minutes they are out of their vehicle on a traffic stop! Nobody is that important! We just think we are! lol


Be Safe.

Norm357
01-21-12, 12:42 AM
Maybe.

McNulty
01-21-12, 04:24 AM
I will take your phone from you if you get out of the car with it in your hand! There is no reason a person needs their cell phone the five to ten minutes they are out of their vehicle on a traffic stop! Nobody is that important! We just think we are! lol


Be Safe.
I like the ones where the violator never gets off the phone during the entire stop. I don't really care in most cases. If they don't understand the ticket or how to take care of it, that's not my problem.

Joeyd6
01-21-12, 11:10 AM
I like the ones where the violator never gets off the phone during the entire stop. I don't really care in most cases. If they don't understand the ticket or how to take care of it, that's not my problem.
One perp did that to me...he kept making me wait for answers until he had a lull in his conversation. I ordered him to cease his conversation. He refused my lawful order. So instead of the ticket for the mover, I arrested him and charged him criminally, impounding his car at one location, and his cell phone at teh precints, and sending him ultimately to arraignment on the other side of the island. If you can't show me respect when I stop you for doing something wrong, I am giving you no respect back. Besides, from an officer safety standpoint, he may be calling in the calvary.

Joeyd6
01-21-12, 11:19 AM
Incident to arrest too... (people vs diaz)


Add exigency.

You two are definatley right.....these are other ways...I was just thinking during a "routine" traffic stop the OP used.

The DIAZ case AMAZES ME! I agree with the decision, but can't believe teh state of California and their super liberal views would ever come to that conclusion! I will say we were told as Feds though/from FLETC that as a result of this case, it only applies to texts on the phones.....not e-mails or call records....and if used fro anything else, it will get challeneged and subjecto to court interpretations.

Big Sexy
01-21-12, 11:32 AM
I will say we were told as Feds though/from FLETC that as a result of this case, it only applies to texts on the phones.....not e-mails or call records....and if used fro anything else, it will get challeneged and subjecto to court interpretations.

We routinely dump phones, either incident to arrest or with a search warrant. Even off of incident to arrest, we dump all content, texts, photos, videos and ESPECIALLY call records. We utilize for criminal proceedings and intel purposes.

MikeG
01-21-12, 02:12 PM
Add exigency.

Believe evidence of a crime is contained on the phone? Don't have a faraday bag? Conduct immediate search to recover evidence that, if delayed, could be remotely deleted by way of a "kill command".

Whoa. Missed this on first time around. Police carry Faraday bags? (police actually call them Faraday bags? lol). good thing to have if you routinely confiscate GPS, cell phones, or things with radios or RFID tags. I suspect there will come a day when you will probably put everyones wallet and personal effects in these bags and then have a Faraday chain of custody requirement when RFID readers start placing criminals at crime scenes.

I think you can make your own if you put your contraband in a plastic ziploc bag and then wrap it a few times with aluminum foil or metal box. Try it with your own cell phone. I wouldn't trust just wrapping it just in foil in case you touch the antenna. For this reason, all police should line their caps with tin-foil because of it's practical use and the scare factor when people actually see foil lined hats.

Samuel
01-21-12, 02:51 PM
I like the ones where the violator never gets off the phone during the entire stop. I don't really care in most cases. If they don't understand the ticket or how to take care of it, that's not my problem.

Cell phone use during a detention is a BIG NO NO for us here in So Cal! Like Joey said, they could be calling other POSes (for back up or to give them a heads up). A few years back, a gangster used his cellphone to call his homies during a traffic stop - his homies showed up not long after and shot at the LAPD unit that was performing the stop. Plus, there's always the chance we may run into a cell phone gun...

Yahoo! Groups (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CABasicPolice/message/3368)

Two Arrested For Allegedly Shooting At Officer On 110 Freeway

LOS ANGELES -- Two suspected gang members fired at a police officer
conducting a traffic stop on the Harbor (110) Freeway in South Los
Angeles overnight and were later arrested at the end of a pursuit,
authorities said. Ramon Pereyda and Victor Ledezma, both in their 20s,
were booked for "attempted murder of a police officer," said Lt. Paul
Vernon of the Los Angeles Police Department's Media Relations office.

The officer, whose name was withheld, was unhurt, Vernon said.

The sequence of events that culminated in the arrests began at about 2
a.m. Wednesday, when a 77th Street Station officer on patrol in a
one-officer car saw a man "acting strangely" while driving a beige
Toyota. The man flashed gang signs at the officer and drove off,
Vernon said

The officer requested backup from another patrol car and followed the
Toyota, which went onto the Slauson Avenue onramp to the southbound
Harbor (110) Freeway and stopped, he said. The officer also stopped
and waited for backup. Before the backup patrol car arrived, a Toyota
Camry pulled alongside the officer, and someone fired two or three
shots from a .357-caliber Magnum handgun, Vernon said. A rear window
of the patrol car was shattered by the gunfire. The officer pursued
the Camry onto the southbound 110 Freeway to Gage Avenue, where it
exited the freeway, after which the car went north on Figueroa Street
and west on 62nd street, where a gun was thrown out of the vehicle,
Vernon said. The weapon was later recovered by police. At 62nd and
Hoover streets, the Camry stopped, and the two men in the car were
arrested, Vernon said. The suspect in the first Toyota drove off, and
remained at large Wednesday morning, police said.

Authorities closed two southbound lanes of the 110 Freeway between
Slauson and Gage avenues for about four hours while an investigation
was conducted, the California Highway Patrol reported.

****************************

LAPD detectives are investigating whether a driver used his cellphone
to call gang members to the scene of a police stop early Wednesday
morning (020106) where gunmen shot up a radio car with an officer
inside. A 27-year-old officer from the 77th Division followed a
suspect vehicle onto a local freeway and pulled the driver over near
an onramp. The driver, who remains at large, allegedly displayed gang
signs and yelled at police as he drove his beige Honda Accord down a
South Los Angeles street about 2 a.m., authorities said.

As the officer waited for backup, he saw the driver use his cellphone.
A Toyota Camry came up the onramp and "those inside capped two or
three rounds at the officer. The shots hit the glass and the door
frame on either side of the officer." Detectives are investigating to
determine if the occupants of both cars knew each other or were
working in concert.

The shooting was the fourth aimed at Los Angeles law enforcement
officers this year. The first occurred Jan. 1 on Los Angeles'
Eastside. The second, also gang-related, occurred Jan. 9 in the San
Fernando Valley and targeted a California Highway Patrol officer. The
third, also on the Eastside, occurred Jan. 17. Deputies are reminded
to exercise caution and stay alert in all law enforcement contacts,
especially on vehicle stops.

Resource: Richard Winton, LA Times, 20060202

MikeG
01-21-12, 04:52 PM
Similar thing happened here. A minivan was carrying illegals when DPS tried to conduct traffic stop. He didn't actually make the stop before another car came up rammed his patrol car in an attempt to divert him from the van. Even if you haven't made the stop, be wary of cell phone use.

I'm not a LEO and have no idea if it's permissible, but I would want a cell phone a person was using before/during a traffic stop in my pocket just on the chance they need to find him and the guy he called. If that DPS guy had actually made the stop and was out of the car when the POS deicded to ram him, the POS wifes' cell phone would be a good thing to have in his pocket to make sure they got both of them. The van she was driving was stolen.

be safe.

mcsap
01-21-12, 06:04 PM
My PD got Faraday bags about 9 months ago and has them readily available for use.

G35 Mass
01-21-12, 08:07 PM
Whoa. Missed this on first time around. Police carry Faraday bags? (police actually call them Faraday bags? lol). good thing to have if you routinely confiscate GPS, cell phones, or things with radios or RFID tags. I suspect there will come a day when you will probably put everyones wallet and personal effects in these bags and then have a Faraday chain of custody requirement when RFID readers start placing criminals at crime scenes.

I think you can make your own if you put your contraband in a plastic ziploc bag and then wrap it a few times with aluminum foil or metal box. Try it with your own cell phone. I wouldn't trust just wrapping it just in foil in case you touch the antenna. For this reason, all police should line their caps with tin-foil because of it's practical use and the scare factor when people actually see foil lined hats.

You can also use "arson cans" (sterile paint cans used for storing arson evidence). Also, microwaves act as faraday devices. Just make sure you unplug it first :) .

I have heard about the aluminum foil, but am yet to try it.


And yes, this cop calls them faraday bags. Some of us are "in the know". Haha.

I also like busting out tuner lingo when stopping cars for illegal modifications. Start telling twirps that you know they lowered their car because they got "hella stance" and have huge camber issues, and they're alllll messed up. "Yo man, what are these? 12,000 K HIDs? TOOOO blue! You need 4,300 to be legal!".

Safety Steve
01-22-12, 12:13 AM
One perp did that to me...he kept making me wait for answers until he had a lull in his conversation. I ordered him to cease his conversation. He refused my lawful order. So instead of the ticket for the mover, I arrested him and charged him criminally, impounding his car at one location, and his cell phone at teh precints, and sending him ultimately to arraignment on the other side of the island. If you can't show me respect when I stop you for doing something wrong, I am giving you no respect back. Besides, from an officer safety standpoint, he may be calling in the calvary.


Very good. It would not let me rep you for that. I have smacked phones out of their hands when they don't put them up when I tell them to. It's an officer safety thing just like Samuel said.


Be Safe.

MikeG
01-22-12, 01:07 AM
My PD got Faraday bags about 9 months ago and has them readily available for use.

How much does a "Faraday bag" cost compared to ziploc bag and aluminum foil? I think I may have a new business. lol.

BTW, not to hijack the thread, but for those "in the know" in a galaxy far far away, don't set your speed trap radar on the road to the plant that makes and test battleship radar. Some officers can tell when they are being jammed. Battleship radar can actually damage the radar gun from pretty far away and those battleship radar guys don''t like tickets. lol. He didn't come back. Instant on, permanently off. In my younger days I actually had a plan to build one for a car (a destroyer, not a jammer) but the antenna would be pretty hard to explain to the officers whos radar stopped working.

Blackgoat06
01-22-12, 11:32 AM
I look to try and beat their high score in Angry Birds.

lmao, can't rep ya


And I'll admit I had to google "faraday bags." I knew what they were, just not by that name.

ChesCopPodz
01-22-12, 01:20 PM
I'll add this for thought, a lot of people nowadays carry their proof of insurance as bringing up their policy on their cell phone. I'd never encountered it until last year, but now it's rampant. It's legal proof of insurance, so it's entirely possible that what you observed was an officer scrolling over the driver's phone to read the expiration date on the policy.

And I WILL require you to hand over your phone or you're getting the ticket. I'm not going to lean over and get my head close to your phone while you're holding it and get tased or shot by one of the weapons they make look like phones. It's legal proof, but if you're presenting your phone as your proof of insurance, you're going to let me take the phone to read the information I need such as expiration dates and covered vehicle information.

MikeyD
01-22-12, 03:28 PM
How hot was she?

For Michigan cops going through cellphones at traffic stops and at other times, my source is this report done by ABC News:Michigan Police Use Device to Download Cellphone Data; ACLU Objects (can't post URL so you'll have to Google it).

For the lady who got stopped and the cop went through her cellphone, my source is my very own eyes. :yesnod:

G35 Mass
01-22-12, 07:25 PM
For Michigan cops going through cellphones at traffic stops and at other times, my source is this report done by ABC News:Michigan Police Use Device to Download Cellphone Data; ACLU Objects (can't post URL so you'll have to Google it).

For the lady who got stopped and the cop went through her cellphone, my source is my very own eyes. :yesnod:
PM me the link.

G35 Mass
01-24-12, 08:39 PM
OP sent me the link via PM:

Michigan Police Use Cellphone 'Data Extraction Devices;' ACLU Objects - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/michigan-police-cellphone-data-extraction-devices-aclu-objects/story?id=13428178#.Tx9Ox1awXng)

Not ONCE in that article does it mention police looking through cell phones on traffic stops.

OP, you're a liar.

Samuel
01-24-12, 08:52 PM
...you're a liar.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4AliyzbHyvA/StBiSnD3DII/AAAAAAAAFCk/m3jN22hgneU/s400/tone+loc.jpg

"I got it goin' on baby doll, and I'm on fire!"

Safety Steve
01-26-12, 09:21 AM
Due to certain arrests, we do seize the cell phone and have the Feds go through it for us.


Be Safe.

MikeG
01-26-12, 04:51 PM
OP sent me the link via PM:

Michigan Police Use Cellphone 'Data Extraction Devices;' ACLU Objects - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/michigan-police-cellphone-data-extraction-devices-aclu-objects/story?id=13428178#.Tx9Ox1awXng)

Not ONCE in that article does it mention police looking through cell phones on traffic stops.

OP, you're a liar.

That looks like a pretty cool device. Interesting that the ACLU can't cite a single instance of misuse so wants to go fishing through five-years of data to see if there may have been one.

How about this story: "Police carry guns and there are unsolved murders so ACLU wants police to ballistically test every weapon to see if they may have been used in murder without any evidence or desire to pay for the testing." Sounds about the same as this story.

There are all sorts of devices and software that can retrieve data from removable flash devices including free software. I've recovered deleted photos from phones and cameras.

BTW, there are other ways to get the information from the phone and a hardware company would be able to make the required equipment. Various levels could theoretically be accessed with various levels of cooperation from cellphone companies down to the handset manufacturers. There are standards but there are also safeguards to prevent IP from being stolen. Handset makers care about their IP as much as users care about their data.

Wiki "JTAG" as it is a standard used by many electronic devices and test equipment (and ARM processors supports JTAG and is used my many, many cellphones). Getting JTAG access to a phone would pretty much give unlimited access to any data that isn't encrypted. But each manufacturer sets it's own access code and guards it as IP (there is a case where a company obtained another companies JTAG access code and downloaded their microcode in the ROM = lawsuit) . JTAG is used to test and debug phones as they are being developed as well as returns. It's not a secret and is standard because companies like Verizon don't want each handset maker to have proprietary test equipment.

Lt.Anger
02-13-12, 11:11 PM
When i was pulled over in philly the cops kept answering my phone and messing with my friend..But i just
saw on an episode of cops this officer had this chicks phone and it kept ringing and people where like i need a fat z (ounce of weed) So its not required i dont think..But the charge at least in pennsylvania criminal use of a communication facility for example is just calling a drug dealer to set up a deal. .Then if they want to hold it against you they may need a warrant to hold up the charge in court but i dont know for a fact.

G35 Mass
02-14-12, 01:06 AM
When i was pulled over in philly the cops kept answering my phone and messing with my friend..But i just
saw on an episode of cops this officer had this chicks phone and it kept ringing and people where like i need a fat z (ounce of weed) So its not required i dont think..But the charge at least in pennsylvania criminal use of a communication facility for example is just calling a drug dealer to set up a deal. .Then if they want to hold it against you they may need a warrant to hold up the charge in court but i dont know for a fact.

Let me tell you: You don't know anything. You know nada. Zilch. Nothing. For a guy who just got nailed for DUI-Drugs, you should be concerned with your own substance abuse and health concerns than getting involved in a Civil Rights argument in which you have no experience of.

The cell phones are answered do to the evidentiary value and inherent exigency of the ringing phone. If it's not picked up immediately, the evidentiary value of the call and the caller's intent is lost.

Warrant or consent is generally required for forensic examination of a cell phone's contents.

Here's your little lesson:
Arrest drug dealer.
His phone rings. Answer it under exigency. Set up deal.
Make second arrest of buyer.
Secure all cell phones in evidence
Get warrants for phones' call and message history
Examine cell phones for call and message history
Send dealer and buyer to prison
Eat a sammich.
Repeat

MikeG
02-14-12, 01:37 AM
Examine cell phones for call and message history
Send dealer and buyer to prison
Eat a sammich.
Repeat[/I]

You can play with my cell phone all day long, but you start eating my sammiches, and we're gonna have some words :).