Police Officer Preparation & Law Enforcement Resource - Archive

I was wondering if any officers were willing to describe what their annual (or however often your department has to do it) pistol qualification course is like? I am curious how it compares with the qualification course for private security in my state.

In the course I shot the longest range was 10 yards. First you shoot from behind cover (an overturned garbage can in my case) one shot from the right side, one over the top, and one from the left side. It is timed but it's been long enough I forget the exact number of seconds. You progressively get closer and closer to the target as you move through the required "evolutions" as my instructor called them. Some of the other ones were firing three shots and performing a reload and firing three more shots, and firing a couple shots from your strong side hand and then transferring to your weak hand and firing two more shots. The final one has you starting in an "interview" posture holding what are supposed to be a pad and pencil (in my case they were rocks....) and then at the instructor's signal you are supposed to drop what you are holding, draw, and fire two shots at the target that is now two yards away. In all there are 25 shots fired and all shots have to be within the 7 ring. All stations are timed. Some of the details may be off but you get a basic idea of what the course is like.

Are LEO courses much more involved than what I have described?

We change every quarter. We had a set qual that never changed but no change builds complacency. The street is never the same and neither should the qual be.

Our qual ranges from the 3-25 yard line with various aspects of cover and reload drills.

1 yd - 25yd passing is 38 out of 48. Piece of cake, they changed night quals, I do it next week passing is 31 out of 38. They figured you most likely won't be shooting greater than 15 yds in the dark, so no 25 yd night qual.

We don't use a standard course. We change the courses of fire around a bit, always mixing something new in.The basic elements over the three range times each year will remain the same, incorporating night fire, tactical movement while shooting and then what you would consider traditional PPC-style qual courses.

Our standard course of fire for the primary weapon is as follows:
(the mags are loaded with 6 rounds each)

-3yards:
-Draw and fire 3 rounds center mass in 4 seconds (2 handed). Scan, decock and holster.
-Repeat. Perform an emergency reload, scan, decock and holster.
-Draw and fore 3 rounds center mass in 4 seconds, strong hand only. Scan, decock and holster.
-Repeat. Perform an emergency reload, scan, decock and holster.

-7 Yards:
-Draw and fire 3 rounds center mass in 4 seconds (2 handed). Stay aimed in.
-Fire 3 rounds center mass, transfer the weapon to your support hand and fire 3 more rounds center mass with support hand only in 15 seconds. Stay aimed in.
-Fire 3 rounds, support hand only, in 4 seconds. Perform and emergency reload, scan decock and holster.
-Draw and fire 3 rounds (2 to the chest and 1 to the head) in 5 seconds. Scan, decock and assume a low ready position.
-Fire 3 rounds (2C/1H), perfrom an emergency reload, fire 3 rounds (2C/1H) in 15 seconds. Scan, decock and assume a low ready position.
-Fire 3 rounds (2C/1H) in 4 seconds. Perform and emergency reload, scan, decock and holster.

-15 Yards:
-Draw and fire 3 rounds, center mass, in 6 seconds. Scan, decock and assume a high ready position.
-Fire 6 rounds center mass in 15 seconds, performing an emergency reload when necessary. Scan, decock and assume a high ready position.
-Fire 3 rounds center mass in 4 seconds. Perform an emergency reload, scan, decock and holster.

-25 Yards:
-From an aimed in prone position, fire 6 rounds center mass. Decock, move to a kneeling, strong side prone position and fire 3 rounds center mass. Decock, move to a standing strong side barricade position and fire 3 rounds center mass. You have 60 seconds.

We also have a standard course of fire for the AR15/M16/MP5 and back-up weapons. There is a familiarization course of fire for the Remington 870.

We also have mandatory Tactical Familiarization Courses to augment our duty handgun course. They include a Standing Disabled Officer Course, a Downed Disabled Officer Course, an Emergency Reload/Immediate Action Course, and a Shotgun Reloading Drill.

In addition to these, I try to do a couple stress courses each qual (at least every 6 months by policy). I set these up to have some running and gunning, as well as failure and transition drills. I try to do them on steel plates for time and have our people race each other.

From across the pond:
We have a few shoots. Here`s one, done in body armour and belt rig.

1) 40 seconds to run 100m, get to 25m point and fire 2 mags of 3.( we have a 50m indoor range so to do the 100m sprint, we start at the 25m point then run the length of the range twice to make 100m til we get back to the firing point.)

2) Walk down. 1 mag of 8. Start at 35 metres walk towards target. Four exposures of 4 secs at various intervals. Unclip, draw, fire one aimed shot. When you get to the targets, turn around start walking back. Four more exposures, turn, draw, one aimed shot.

3) Run and shoot. Start at 50m. One mag of 10. Weapon holstered and clipped up. On command, walk toward targets. At some point the target will turn, you have between 3-10 seconds to sprint to the 20m point and engage the target with 2 rounds in a position dictated by the range officer. Basically the closer you get to the 20m point before the targets turn, the less time the range staff give you to get into position and engage the target.

4) 2 target shoot. 10m Two targets. 3 seconds, 10 round mag. On the turning of the targets, draw, fire one round each target alternating left/right - right/left.

5) 7metres. Mag of10rnds. 2 secs to draw, fire 2 rounds. In the "standby" position - hand on weapon, but weapon still in holster, unclipped. 2 exposures facing forward, 1 facing left, 1 facing right and 1 facing away. On exposure, turn draw fire.

6)25m, 6 rnds, deliberate shoot (untimed). 2 rnds standing, kneeling, sitting.

We requal on each weapon every 3-4 months. The pass is 40 out of 50 rnds for handgun, but if on any of the individual details you score less than 50% (despite your overall score) you fail.That is one of three differant pistol shoots we do.
One strange one we do for the MP5 is the very first discipline. It is a one round shoot. It has been found that 60-70% of first rounds fired by police, miss their target. (don`t know if thats a world statistic or just UK). This detail is designed to combat that. Sprint 100m to 45 metres firing point, make ready (lock `n `load I think you call it), assume position dictated by range staff and fire one shot. All in 27 secs.
Cheers
Jack

I just had to qualify for the state DOC. We were required to qualify on a Remington 870 shotgun and a Ruger .223 Mini-14. The revolver (.357 but qualifying using .38+P rounds) was optional.

I got a 249 out of a possible 310 points (210 is qualifying).

25yrds - 90sec to shoot 18 rounds. 6 strong side kneeling, 6 weak side standing, 6 strong side standing around a barrier starting with gun in holster

15yrds - 12 rounds 25 seconds standing starting with gun in holster

7yrds - 10 rounds in 2 round double taps from gun ready position

3yrds - 10 rounds in 2 round double taps 3 secs per 2 rounds, gun in holster, quick draw and shoot from hip

1yrd - 8 rounds in 2 round double taps 2 secs per 2 rounds, gun in holster, quick draw and shoot from hip

Thanks for those detailed descriptions guys. Alot of variation there. Our course is definitely pretty simple compared to what was posted.

Soontobe, how come you had to do the pistol qual with a revolver? Actually now I think I understand. You're a Correctional Officer, right? That would explain the focus on long guns and the optional handgun. I'm guessing maybe they keep some revolvers in an armory that they've had forever and they haven't bothered to get semi-autos because they don't have a great need for them. Am I close? Are revolvers only issued in some sort of dire emergency or are they regularly used by some guards? I know guards that are in with the prisoners don't carry weapons.

We shoot such varied courses it is hard to list them all. We have a standard qualification course that consists of 100 rounds fired from five to 50 yards under time limits that we have to shoot once every time. The rest is the instructors picking from dozens of pre-designed courses. You don't get any notice as to which ones you will shoot until you are on the line.

I went to the range this week and I shot 350 rounds in the morning and then we did simmunition training all afternoon where we went through realistic scenarios for shoot -don't shoot training.

(A funny thing, one of the G17's being used for simmunition started malfunctioning and shooting full auto. It surprised the hell out of the guy shooting it when it ripped a whole mag out!)

We do courses where we shoot while running, shoot from cars, shoot at moving targets, shoot with partners, shoot in groups, and a lot of different courses. We practice stoppages and do other things to try and inject stress into the thing.

We also do the same types of courses with our shoulder weapons.

Originally posted by Zantar
Soontobe, how come you had to do the pistol qual with a revolver? Actually now I think I understand. You're a Correctional Officer, right? I'm guessing maybe they keep some revolvers in an armory that they've had forever and they haven't bothered to get semi-autos because they don't have a great need for them. Am I close? Are revolvers only issued in some sort of dire emergency or are they regularly used by some guards?

Zantar, the revolvers are because of state DOC policy. Its what they chose and have stuck with. However, they are talking about switching over to pistols within the next 5 years, once the budget allows for it. We have about 40 S&W .357s in the armory in both 4 and 6" barrels. They're only about 5 years old (bought right after the prison opened). Along with these we have about 30 shotguns and 25 Mini-14. We also have a full complement of non-lethal rounds for the shotguns and a couple of L8 launchers and the full complement of non-leathal rounds for them along with the usual CS and rubber ball grenades, handheld electronics, and electrified shields. We have "the best outfitted armory of all the correctional institutions in the state" because the prison was built at a time when the state budget was operating under a huge surplus.

The revolvers are regularly used by the trip officers anytime we have to haul an inmate off to court or for a visit to the local hospital or one of the state university hospitals for surgery... its usually dependent upon the escape risk the inmate presents, but for the most part on the long hauls the officers go armed.

Our CERT (Correctional Emergency Response Team) guys also uses the revolvers quite a bit, although I'm not sure if they suit up with them every time they do a cell extraction or not.

I went through the qualification on the revolver so I could get my professional permit so that if the need ever arrises for an armed trip and our usual trip officers aren't present I am qualified to go on it. I also did it (along with full face for the OC and taking a "ride" on the RACC belt -remotely operated correctional control device- in hopes of being able to give myself a better chance of getting on CERT.

Thanks for the informative post. I didn't even think about the prisoner transport aspect.

I know the city PD here have pretty much a standard qual course (that is too simple) but if they choose to carry a 1911 style they must pass a class. They take a 2 day class with a SWAT operator who trains them in firing a 1911 with a 3# (minimum) - 4.5# (recommended) trigger pull. As they stress, trigger pull has nothing to do with ND's or AD's - its training. So they go through a full 2 day course and a lot of shooting with their chosen 1911 for a total of 16hrs.

The LEO that passes the 2 day course then goes on to the normal qualification. Once they pass they get to carry their personally owned 1911 on duty. For the next two years they go to qualification more frequently than the officer that sticks with the issue weapon.

The majority of city LEO's stick with their issue S&W 4506 while only a handful of patrol officers carry 1911's. The ones that do are "gun people" while the other officers tend to never get to the range. Can you believe some of them haven't shot their issue weapon in over a year? Some of them do not even show up for qualification and then it gets pushed back another few months...

Switchback, my friend who is on the local SWAT here told me that they do similar drills as you do - when I told him you were on the SOG he was like, "Sweeeeeeeeet, are they hiring?" I told him he should log onto RP but he never does :rolleyes: Maybe one day I'll make him. He wanted me to ask if you guys are using the MP5 in 10mm as they are. I guess its a custom order for HK?????

Gman,

Sadly, one of the cadre for SOG had a hardon for MP5s in 9mm. We even have some PDWs (for the drivers, etc). I am of the school of thought that if you are going to carry a rifle, carry a rifle round!

Luckily, as a sniper, my MP sits in the armory. I have my bolt gun for sniper missions and a custom M4 in .223 for entries and sniper security. A couple of the snipers have Colt Commandos issued (until we get some more of the custom M4s).

Ad, don't get me started on the hiring thing! However, SOG is trying to get some more recruits for an upcoming class. For some reason, there has been a little less interest in those that want to go through the "fraternity initiation". LOL We haven't been hiring a lot of 1811s and SOG will allow only investigators to apply. Many of the investigators we have are getting a bit old or just don't want to go through selection.

The MP5/10 looks a bit different than the norm 9 version. Theirs has that translucent / brown straight 30rd mag. He told me they do not use full power 10mm ammo. Some of them have the fixed stock while others have the retractable. He said the state bought them used from a Federal Agency. Supposed to be as powerful as the ol "tommy gun" or something. He loves it. They were going to go with the MP5/40 but cost was out of the question I guess.

He also has a personally owned Colt match target "m4" with the knights RAS and all the goodies (Aimpoint M2, Vertical Grip, surefire light attached to the side, ARMS BUIS, mounts, etc...) and he carries that in his trunk of his patrol car with four 30rd mags. The snipers on their team are a bit weird. I don't know - they have a strange personality - not bad just ... :)

sorry to change topic.....